Starter wont turn engine over
 

HI all, I'm in the process of running in a Thunder Tiger .61 ABN engine. My problem is that when I put an electric starter to it, it stops at the top of the stroke and the starter spins on the spinner. I'm using a Hobbico Torque Master, (box says it will start my size engine no problem). I've put about 3 tanks of fuel through it, but still have to flip start it with a chicken stick. Am I maybe overpriming? Or could it be This starter just sucks?

Thanks,
Darren

Beginner's answer to a beginniers question.
 

I sometimes have problems with my .46. This is typically the problem.

1. you over-prime the engine. First turn of the starter causes "fuel lock" (too much fuel for the piston to compress).

2. Subsequent attempts to turn the motor fail because the starter fails to gain momentum because the piston is at/near compression.


So, my advice....
Wrong answer (do what I did the first time it happened...): Instructor says "you have a fuel lock", so I use my finger to reverse the propeller/piston to the beginning of the stroke. Instructor freaks out and says "NEVER put your hand near propeller when glow-igniter attached....."

Right answer....
1. Remove glow ignitor
2. use chicken stick / something safe to reverse the piston in cylinder to open up exhaust outlet.
3. Turn plane so that excess fuel can pour out of cylinder into exhaust (can often see the fuel dripping out exhaust.
4. Apply glow igniter / starter.

Starter wont turn engine over
 

Thanks for the reply, I'll give that a try. Any other ideas out there? Keep em coming.

Thanks,
Darren

Starter wont turn engine over
 

That's a big engine, are you sure that you're putting sufficent pressure against the spinner?

Starter wont turn engine over
 

I have the same problem sometimes... Just turn the engine until it is not on the compression stroke then use your starter. This will get you some momentum for when you hit the compression stroke. Works every time!

Starter wont turn engine over
 

do what everyone else says, i fixed my problem also, i just don't prime anymore and i can start my engine w/0 ramming the starter into it:D

i have the same problem, but usually is because of fuel on the spinner nut

Edited for safety ;) :)

Starter wont turn engine over
 

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL397&P=0

Here is a link to the starter I am using, it says it can turn up to a .90 cubic inch engine, so why the trouble flipping a .61 past compression?

Thanks,
Darren

Starter wont turn engine over
 

Like CCDave said, make sure you are starting with the prop away from the compression.

brschmid, that is dangerous. Please don't advise people to put themselves at risk.

Starter wont turn engine over
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MinnFlyer
[B]Like CCDave said, make sure you are starting with the prop away from the compression.


I've tried it that way, Once it hits the top of the stroke, it just stops, I've got a nice groove on my spinner now. nothing major, it's really just cosmetic. Once the engine is going, it runs great and idles smooth. BTW, this engine is a pain to start with a chicken stick to. ( takes a lot of flips)

Starter wont turn engine over
 

battery charged up for the starter? ( just checking)

keep working on it !!!
 

hello, well about all i can say is i had an engine that was hard to start also would stop like yours. once it had been run in and been used for awhile it worked fine just had to do a little extra breakin with it

i dont suggest you do as brschmid suggests as all that will do is result in a broken firewall sooner or later from HITTING the spinner with the starter or you could break something in the engine also.


bassman

Starter wont turn engine over
 

Other options not previously mentioned

Get a better rubber cone in your starter, they make sticker, or softer ones that grab the spinner better.

And a technique some one just showed me for my Saito 150, that had the same problem you have. While securely holding the plane with your left hand and a hold back stooge, try to start the motor from the end of the last stroke if the prop stops have some one else flip the prop through compression with a chickenstick. My 150 only needs this on the first start of the day. Once up to ops temps it starts on the first flip.

HTH
tom

Just to repeat myself ... ;-)
 

Problem is most likely "Fuel Lock".

Turn prop (safely) so that piston is at bottom of stroke (opening exhaust "valve").

Turn plane over so that any fuel in the cylinder flows out through the exhaust. Hold plane so that exhaust is under the engine, and facing slightly down at the back. Fuel runs out of engine, into silencer/muffler, and out of muffler onto ground.

Plan B:
Another solution to this is to have a visual on the fuel pipes to the engine.

DO NOT PRIME ENGINE. My understanding is that priming the engine is mostly only useful for a very quick start, and "really quick starts" are only really useful if you are chickensticking it. Turning the prop with a starter should be enough to draw fuel from the tank (prime the fuel lines) even if the fuel lines are full of air. Using a chicken stick to prime the fuel lines is just wasted effort.

Use starter only, make sure that starter can turn prop freely. (i.e. there is no fuel lock).

Apply starter again, and watch the fuel (and any air bubbles in it) get sucked through the fuel line into the carbeuretter. Don't turn engine on starter for more than 10 seconds at a time.

When you hear that the engine is started, or that fuel lines are empty of bubbles, release starter.

all the best.

gus

Starter wont turn engine over
 

I have a torque master and am having the same problem. It may be the fuel lock, but for mine it is the stock cone that comes with the starter. The surface of mine has become slick with use and has a surface that an eraser gets after it has set for a long time. I plan to get one of the silicone cones for better grip.

Starter wont turn engine over
 

I'm going to disagree about not priming. Cranking an ABC engine over a lot with a starter with out fuel in there isn't good for it. In reality, you likely won't cause noticeable damage or anything, but you are shortening the life of the engine by wearing the piston-liner fit early.

Some engines like a very light prime, some like to be sloppy wet for that first start. On my Magnum .25 and .28 engines, I prime 4-5 turns after the fuel hits the carb. I can feel the fuel on my thumb (side mounted engine). A quick bump with the starter, and off it goes. My OS .25FXs on the other hand, like a leaner prime.

I do agree, however, that in the case in question, it's likely flooded, so priming isn't your problem.

Starter wont turn engine over
 

Is it really? I do it all the time! I didn't think it was dangerous at all Just get the starter spinning then push it against the Spinner. I do not see how it could be dangerous. I guess if You quickly jam it on the spinner and your hand slips.

Starter wont turn engine over
 

If you have the money and dont want to worry about it any more get a Dynatron starter and rig it up for 24 volts. That will either turn the prop over or turn the plane over :). Seriously thats what we use (on a special pull system) to start DA-150CC.

Starter wont turn engine over
 

Getting the starter spinning, then jamming it against the engine is definitely NOT a good idea. Unfortunately, I see a lot of people do it, older guys in particular, and see people actually instructing others to do it.

It's bad for the engine, bad for the plane, hard on the starter and spinner, and I've seen cowls ruined (and a needle valve broken) when the starter slips off the spinner. I won't mention what could happen if the starter slips past the spinner and the engine has started. :rolleyes:
Dennis-

Starter wont turn engine over
 

I suspect the problem is just that it's a new engine with a very tight nip at the top which will go away with some more running. If it starts with a chicken stick then just keep doing that for a few more tanks then try the starter again.

And I'm with Montague here...regardless of how you start an engine they should all be correctly primed first. The idea of using the starter to draw fuel from the tank can be extremely damaging.

Starter wont turn engine over
 

Try this next time, turn prop clockwise while in front of the plane. once it wont move anymore , top of compression stroke, put starter on it and it will start almost every time that way, it give the engine more momentum to start.

Starter wont turn engine over
 

I agree with the spinning the starter up before applying it to the prop. I dont see how it could be dangerous, youre not supposed to jam it onto the nose cone, just get a person to hold your plane in the back, spin up your starter and "firmly" apply it onto the nosecone.

Starter wont turn engine over
 

No said anything about jamming but just put it on how you normally do....just with the starter spinning.....nothing wrong with it. It scuffs up your nosecone maybe but not dangerous.

Starter wont turn engine over
 

Thanks for the wealth of information, I'll just keep at it with a chicken stick for a while. I guess it's a good thing that I still have all that compression at the top of the stroke. Everything is still tight in there which probably means I haven't tore up the cylinder lining.:-)

Starter wont turn engine over
 

i fixed it and my technique. i do like everyone else now. :) BTW my starter was low on juice so that was my problem

buy one of those replacement starter cones Miller starter cone that one is for a spinner nut
all Miller starter cones

they work really well i highly recommend them

Starter wont turn engine over
 

I have 2 of these starters and both work great!

1. maybe your spinner is 2 big!
2.Maybe your not pushing the starter into the spinner hard enough!
3.Maybe your putting the prop right on the point of compression which is making the prop not able to build the momentum to get over the compression in this case you should put the prop right befor compression so it has room from the end of compression and the beginning of compression again if it's confusing maybe I will try to make it less confusing later because it's 2:06 am right now :)