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Brushless motor from a CD drive

Old 02-19-2004, 12:30 PM
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3DFanatic
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Default Brushless motor from a CD drive

Anyone used one of these in an airplane? I pulled the drive apart and the motor is permanently attached to a PCB with no appearant terminals. What do I do with this thing? Help....

Thanks,
Old 02-20-2004, 11:04 AM
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rogwabbit
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Never done it... but I have heard people talk about it a little.

To the best of my understanding you'r going to need to un-solder it and cut off the windings that exist and re-wind the motor. There is some info here if you search I think.
Old 02-20-2004, 06:58 PM
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scottm
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Here is all the info in the world on cdrom motors and other homemade brushless

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forum...?s=&forumid=13
Old 02-21-2004, 12:22 AM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Woo! Perfect. Thanks Scott!
Old 04-11-2004, 10:24 AM
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Will Sgarlat
 
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Wait a minute before you cut and rewind...I have some PCboard experience and recommend you draw out the layout of the motor tabs are soldered to the pc board and note any labeling at the solder joints. The solder joints on the board ARE the electrical terminations, and you may find out which tabs are the pos, neg and signal. De-solder the motor from the board, solder up your ESC for brushless motor and see what happens!
Let us know how it's coming!
Regards,
Will
Old 04-11-2004, 06:13 PM
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johnathan
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

3D
Yes you will need to git rid of the pcboard it is usless for rc ! At most it can be used as a mount. Unwind the copper don't cut it off the stator. You will need to rewind with heavyer wire. I have had great sucess with these lots of power or speed depending on the number of turns you rewind with. Here is crazy powered light stick.Along with two differant popflys This motor will fly a slow stick but hey when it only weighs 1 ounce . Good luck I buy my stuff from gobrushless.com. Have no connection other than being a very sastisfied customer. That is a great link for info on the other forum. Once in the power forum just look for cdrom of cdr surplus parts. Johnathan[8D]
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Old 04-11-2004, 06:40 PM
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johnathan
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Here are a couple of shots to let you see some of the parts. They are in various stages of completion. You can see next to a quater these are very small. They can be made for less than $10 and as cheap as $3 if you make half a dozen or so. Part of the fun is the pride you feel when someone asks you wow that has a lot of power what kind of motor is it.
Very very exciting time for electric ! Johnathan
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Old 04-11-2004, 06:55 PM
  #8  
johnathan
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

The stators can be stacked togeather and wound to make motors stronger and much more efficent than a 400 brush motor. Here are a couple stators that I wound for larger motors. I took these photos and they actully use them on go brushless.com. Thhere are people that do the windings perfect but as long as they work hey .Johnathan
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Old 04-12-2004, 05:29 PM
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Will Sgarlat
 
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Jonathan,
That's some heavy duty stuff! I bet they run great. Did you start out rewinding motors for slot cars?
I want to rewind a 600 27 turn motor with thicker wire and fewer turns. What kind of wire do you use for rewinding motors? Is manet wire OK? am I correct to say that the wire needs to be insulated with a flexi kind of film to keep the windings electrically isolated from eachother? It looks like you do good work! Is there a special "balancing putty" that you'd use to statically balance the rewound armature using a prop balancer? think I'd rather drill out the heavy than add weight to the light sides. Is this recommended?
Cool stuff - thanks a lot.
Will
Old 04-12-2004, 07:44 PM
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johnathan
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Will
Thanks for the compliments. I am a hack but find I can make things functional not pretty. Many have perfect windings but all that will do is let you add a couple more turns not worth all the time and effort to make it perfect. Remember these are Outrunner type motors. So the bell spins and must be close on balance not the windings . Just the opposite of what you are used to with the armature or windings spinning inside a magnet. Stator is stationary with the wire. The workload or prop is attached to the shaft and bell unit that spins. Very simple idea and very effective. I have never been involved with slot cars but understand they are brusshed motors differant animal !

Yes use magnet wire . These are 20mm stators and 26ga works great. Here is a triple stator I am working on but we have to machine more parts for it just yet. It should turn props direct that a geared speed 400 could only do. Will keep you posted. Not that I am connected with this site but I do buy my parts from gobrushless.com . New site just a guy that is starting out and got the supply going out of convince. We were all scurrying around trying to find used cdrom drives to rob parts from. Of course many different parts and hard to come up with uniform sizes. This guy went directly to the manufacture and bought the parts in bulk. Allowing many users to test each others designs to find out what is optimum.

Remember that you must use a brush less speed controller with these and make sure you are following instructions before hooking up. Lots and lots of fun for me to have a hand in making my own motor. Make no mistake if you don't enjoy building and are an ARF guy you are better off buy a factory mfg motor as the prices are falling from competition. I own several. But these are what has got my attention now.It has just been going on now with the other forum for a few weeks on the particular parts. So I am very excited and going to have every thing I fly brush less ha ha. Good luck Johanthan
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Old 04-15-2004, 01:07 PM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

ORIGINAL: Will Sgarlat

Wait a minute before you cut and rewind...I have some PCboard experience and recommend you draw out the layout of the motor tabs are soldered to the pc board and note any labeling at the solder joints. The solder joints on the board ARE the electrical terminations, and you may find out which tabs are the pos, neg and signal. De-solder the motor from the board, solder up your ESC for brushless motor and see what happens!
Let us know how it's coming!
Regards,
Will
The three wires from the PC board to the motor stator are not +,-, and signal they are 3 phase AC. Don't worry about identifying them they are interchangeable and you are going to replace them with new winding wire connected to a new controller anyway. Don't even think about using the CD controller, it is not suitable for R/C use.
Old 04-17-2004, 01:56 AM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

johnathan
This is awesome work you are doing. I went to gobrushless.com and saw all the parts. I wanted to start buying, but wasn't sure what parts are compatable. How do you make the rotating can different sizes, ie for two or three stators? Also is there a clear description of how to make one of these somewhat step by step? And how do you keep the bell from flying off the end? A point in the right direction would be much appreciated.
Thanks, good lift,
jeremy
Old 04-17-2004, 09:56 AM
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bz1mcr
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

ORIGINAL: jeremygaughan

johnathan
This is awesome work you are doing. I went to gobrushless.com and saw all the parts. I wanted to start buying, but wasn't sure what parts are compatable. How do you make the rotating can different sizes, ie for two or three stators? Also is there a clear description of how to make one of these somewhat step by step? And how do you keep the bell from flying off the end? A point in the right direction would be much appreciated.
Thanks, good lift,
jeremy
I have not seen bells/cans for 2x and 3x stators offered for sale. Folks are making their own. gobrushless.com is going to offer custom cans in the future, but nothing is available now. Their 25mm cans are temp. out of stock. So, right now you have to buy the $4 motor and disassemble to get a matching can and stator. I have a small supply of gobrushless cans and stators and offer a SUPER KIT which includes custom made bearing tube, magnets, ball bearings, choice of wire, etc. Here is a link http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ghlight=bz1mcr

Also is there a clear description of how to make one of these somewhat step by step?
This thread was my attempt to offer a step by step. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=187296

And how do you keep the bell from flying off the end?
The bell normally is press fit on the shaft. Some have applied CA, Epoxy etc and some even reinforce the joint with plywood, plastic or Aluminum. I have never used anything but a press fit. If your question was What keeps the shaft bell assembly from flying off? That is address here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...62#post2047462
Old 04-18-2004, 12:15 AM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

jeremygaughan

Hi
Thanks for the compliments. The bell you see is customade on a friends lathe . As bz1mcr said the stock bells are only good for 1 stator. If you look at my pictures above the popfly is being flown with a single stator motor.I make the bearing holder out of K&S 5/16 aluminum tubing . Then I drill the ends out with 15/64 drill bit so a 3mm bearing can be glued with CA or locktite. The shaft is a scrap pice from a cdrom that I disasembled . If you look at the link in post number 3 and search cdr you will find all kinds of info. Good luck
here is a picture of the tripple mounted in a Cougar [type] scratch built balsa and foam plane. All up weight with an 8cell Kan950 pack is 25 oz.

This motor with 3 stators has awsome power with a master airscrew 8x4 glow type prop. 9600 rpm today hope to test hop soon. Wind is crazy in north Texas now. Johnathan
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Old 04-18-2004, 01:32 AM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Thanks to both of you for responding so fast. I have a pylon racer that needs a replacement for a johnson 250 brushed motor, and a flying wing that I intend to go into full contact combat with. These motors sound like the way to go. No tears when there is a crash with a $10.00 motor on board. I will follow your guidance on the posts and do some old fasioned trial and error. When I have somthing that works I will post pictures. Thanks for the new hobby.

When you have new posts or advances in the home built brushless hobby where is the best place I can look for them? Thanks again!
Old 04-18-2004, 10:37 AM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Hum..... John? How come u only have 6 magnet on ur motor? that give it more torqe... I build 3-4 motor alreadt but never actually try that. What is the different... usually it 12 magnet on 9 pole...
But here is my point... I had make brushless motor for my aerohawk micro helicopter.... it work ok i guess

BUT.. now i just bought a ep concept sr.. which is double the size... mini helicopter.. .now I did NOT know it was this huge....
The stock motor is a K brush giant motor, that require a 40amp brushed esc.... Haven't a hard time finding this...So i decide to pass. And go on with brushless, but when i Look at Hacker B40... 240.00 total for esc and motor... OMG... 2x then my ep concept... lol... So i was thinking to buy castle creation phx 60 esc.. and make a giant brushless motor...
Have you seen LRK design? but the problem is, these kind of motor was design to work without gear, so it has torqe but low rpm. I was thinking to stack 22mm stator (from go brushless) stack maybe 6. On my ep concept there is gearing... so these motor need to have high rpm i believe. But how to increase RPM? I know if you put bigger stator or more pole, u get more torqe. Any suggestion will be helpful.. thanks all
Old 04-18-2004, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Guys
As for the 6 magnet polls I wound the tripple with 10 turns [speed] and used 6 magnet polls n-s-n-s-n-s speed and connected in a star or Y patern tork and low amperage. When you double or tripple the number of stators the rpm of the bell [Kv] per volt of input power drops buy the mutiple . ''A quote from Ron a well know LRK and cdrom guru While keeping the same number of winds: yes. Increasing the stator stack height by x, decreases Kv by the same factor. Three stators and same number of winds gives you Kv/3.''

What this means is with 12 mag poles the motor would turn slower than 6 .[more distance between mag polls means more speed for same pulse of power ] And I wound with 10 turns [hot wind] to make up for the bell only spinning 1/3 as fast as a single stator. To have eficency the stator should be full of copper so I used a thicker wire and less turns.
See what I am getting at it is all becaws 3 stators spin 1/3 as fast as 1 but more powerful than 1 ! I am new at this myself but once you get going you catch on pretty quick.

jeremygaughan
The little popfly used to fly with a johnson 280 brushed. Now with the cdr single much more fun alot faster also longer flight times. Remember that you are hauling a $55 speed controll around so protect it with some type of structure but alow good airflow !

helisfreak
As far as heli motors I havent done one but there are many posts on the other forum under power section if you search LRK. Search LRK under power section on rcgroups.Good luck to all . Johnathan[&:]
Old 04-23-2004, 05:25 PM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Thanks (johnathan and bz1mcr)
I got my stuff from go brushless today and with your help it took me about 1.5 hours to have it built, mounted on my plane, and in the air. I have tons more power than the johnson 250 and I don't even have the new magnets put in yet. I will have some pics soon. Any new brushless advances? thanks, jeremy
Old 04-23-2004, 08:07 PM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

congratulations. That's faster than I can do it. Have pictures to share?
Old 04-23-2004, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Here are the pictures. Don't laugh at the ghetto plane or mount job, I was too excited that it worked to take my time. I used 15 winds, twelve 5x5x1 magnets, three bearings in the brass tube, and a stack of tiny washers to get enough clearence between the can and the stator. How do you guys get enough clearence on the stator, using a tiny wheel collar? Mine only works because it is a pusher, the bell would fly off if it was not. I will remedy this because my next plane is a pylon racer. The replacement magnets didn't make as much difference as I thought they would. The ring magnet was pretty fast. How do you get that magnet ring out anyway, I tried getting it very hot and that didn't work. I ended up grinding it with a dremmel and then scrapping the rest out.
The biggest question I have is about speed. I don't want much torqe, I just want speed, should I go high winds with less magnets or low winds with less magnets or.....?
Jeremy
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Old 04-24-2004, 08:17 AM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

ORIGINAL: jeremygaughan

I used 15 winds, twelve 5x5x1 magnets, three bearings in the brass tube, and a stack of tiny washers to get enough clearence between the can and the stator. How do you guys get enough clearence on the stator, using a tiny wheel collar? .... How do you get that magnet ring out anyway, I tried getting it very hot and that didn't work. I ended up grinding it with a dremmel and then scrapping the rest out.
The biggest question I have is about speed. I don't want much torqe, I just want speed, should I go high winds with less magnets or low winds with less magnets or.....?
Jeremy
Less winds, and larger wire (lower gage) give more speed and more amps. At 15 turns you are about as low as most guys are going, but you can go lower say to 12 or even 10 if your battery will tolerate the amp draw. Also if your not already connected in delta that will have the same effect as reducing turns. That does not require rewinding, just connect the ends differently.

For speed Six magnets is better than twelve. You can use the same magnets; just arrange them as
NNSSNNSSNNSS instead of NSNSNS... The pairs of magnets will try to repel each other, so you need to hold them together till the CA sets.

Removing magnet rings is always messy, and you risk damage to the can. I have found an overnight soak in acetone helps. It softens the glue and others say it makes the magnet ring more brittle.

Three bearings on one shaft is unusual. The have to have near perfect alignment to avoid binding or drag. If they are well aligned, the shaft is perfectly straight etc. then only two will be supporting the shaft anyway. Take the center bearing out; it can only cause trouble.
Old 04-25-2004, 01:48 AM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Jeremy
Great job ! Since you allready have a bell with 12 mags leave them. Just try 9 turns of the same wire. With that you should be in the 18000 rpm range with a gws 4.5x4 prop.
Hey when it comes to these neatness takes a back seat to function. You can have a beautiful motor and it not run . So by having found sucses you are 90% there ! Now tune it buy reducing the winds and you will be supprized.[&:]
Old 05-02-2004, 12:44 AM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

Hi again, I have built a couple and I have been succesfull spinning a small prop, ie. 4.5x4.5 or 5x5. I put a 8x4.6 on and it got hot and shut down at half throttle. Should I put another lipo cell in the series? what set up would you guys use to swing a 9x4.6 and hover a little foamie? I heard that a guy has done that. I think I am becoming interested in more than just flying fast, and was wondering, do you guys hover?
Old 05-04-2004, 12:50 PM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

what kind of esc do you guys use for these motors are their any cheap ones
Old 05-07-2004, 05:52 PM
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Default RE: Brushless motor from a CD drive

I am also looking for a cheap brushless esc...

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