credence

My Feedback: (2)

I'm curious as to wether you were using the BEC when this happened? I've heard of these ESC's going up in flames very fast when BEC is enabled.

whissel_blowa

Running the ESC at half throttle for the entire flight until it went would have been the contributing factor. When you run below full throttle with brushless ESC's, from what I understand you use only one bank or so of FET's, causing overheating in many of the cheaper models. Varying throttle load throughout the flight will utilise the entire ESC and minimise heat build up in one section.

If you were pulling 50A static, you are getting close to the ESC's limit, regardless what the specs are most experienced E flyers will recommend you use an ESC well over rated to your application. Personally if I was pulling 50A I would have used a 70-80A ESC minimum. I have the TP60A and intend to use it in a 35-40A application.

I use two TP30AG2 ESC's with cut down heatsinks and much higher quality wiring, and am drawing 17A through each of them in parallel. My ESC's are always under 40 degrees after a full flight of 50% WOT.

As for settings, timing is important if you want to maximise the efficiency of your motor, timing works on the number of poles the motor has, usually the greater timing advance is used for say inrunners with 2 poles, with lower timing advance for motors with large numbers of poles like outrunners, IE 2 pole EDF motor would be set to greatest advance, usually 20-30 degrees.

NUTS

I was using a Park BEC along with the TP60. Have used this combination on a few other planes of similar size with no problem. As for the 50A staticly, you have to remember that the amps will drop by 10 to 15% when in flite. The prop unloads quite a bit once airborn. If I buy somthing that is rated at 60A and with an 80A burst it better hold up at at least 50A or the company will get no more of my business. I got a name brand 60A BEC a few days ago and have flown the Somthin Extra 3 times with no problems.
I have used a few of the smaller rated ESC from TP and have had great success with them. I just feel that from the looks of their workmanship and design of the larger units they just won't stand up to what they are rated for. TP uses a single circuit board with all of their FET'S in three rows. The name brand ones I have use three circuit boards with spacing between them. Also when compairing the quality of the TP's and the name brand, there is no comparison. Like I said before, when using a set up that requires a higher amp rating I will use the name brand. To me it's now like insurannce.

Best Regards,
Nuts

saitofreak

I have to agree that using a slightly over-rated ESC (running at, say 80% of it's max continuous amps) for RC electric motors is probably wise, to protect your investment. This is more important if the quality of the unit is suspect or as yet unproven.

Brushless motors have been around for a long time, so nothing new. They have been used in many consumer and industrial applications over the years. The "motor drive" controllers used in industrial applications offer excellent protection against many types of faults and over-loads, but these controllers are large and expensive. They measure amongst others, input/output currents, voltages, motor temperature, controller temperature and have elaborate protection schemes to save the controller and the motor alike.

Our RC systems don't have nearly as many features. We need a lightweight solution, incredibly high power density and low cost for our applications to work, and so the engineers that design ESC's must compromise on protection due to size, weight and cost.
For example, many ESC's rely on temperature sensing as an indirect method to detect current overload or abuse, but heat takes time to build (relative to direct current measurement). By the time the ESC detects a fault it may be too late to save the ESC or motor.
So you have the power, but minimal protection. It places more responsibility on the user to manage their particular setup. In other words, the ESC must be able to deliver more power than the motor will demand (keep some in reserve), for a given battery size and motor load. Managing heat is a part of that.
These ESC's almost always require cooling airflow, so mounting arrangements will determine how much power you can make - as a function of heat dissipation. Same thing applies to the integral BEC that most of these units come with. For example, if you mount inside a fuselage, don't expect the same power capability as an external mounting.

So, if you can keep the ESC cool, and you trust the brand to deliver on their claims, then it should be OK to run the ESC motor combo at the max continuous limit. But for most users it's advisable to use a little less power than the stated specs of a particular ESC. That means choosing the right combo of ESC, motor, prop-size.

whissel_blowa

NUTS I dont agree, the TP esc's are well made, I have stripped and modified 4 of them and other than the wire being fairly cheap and the filtering cap being chinese manufacture, the ESC board itself is fine. Everyone talks about unloading in the air, and the theory is sound, but I have yet to see actual logged data showing a 10-15% drop in amp draw over static running.

The TP30AG2's that I use have seperate BEC boards and are very well made, the TP60A is older generation using a couple of regs on the backside of the board to provide BEC, again it is quite capable of doing its job if you dont push it too hard. One thing I do think is incorrect is the LiPo number, I am sure these ESC's are rated to 3 or 4 cell only, most sellers quote 4s max, the label on the TP60 is IMO incorrect.

A friend uses CC10's at 7 amps static, and the things get stinking hot and shut off all the time. Someone else I know uses Hyperion 30A esc on a 25A static draw and gets shutdowns 3-4 times during a flight even on the outside of the fuse. Both these ESC's are expensive items...

NUTS

Well now! If they are so well made then why do you have to strip and modify them?

Nuts

whissel_blowa

If you had read the reply more carefully you would have seen exactly why. Weight was the issue in this case, and I saved 7.5 grams by removing the cheap heavy wire, heatshrink etc, and fitting light teflon wire and hi temp lightweight heatshrink. I also shortened the Rx lead as its way too long, I saved over 3 grams with it alone. My TP esc's work perfectly, in all 4 installations.

Facts are still facts, industrial speed controllers for 3 phase motors are large, complex and heavy, the speed controllers we are using perform extremely well considering their size and what is asked of them. You have a row of FETs for each phase, made up of 4,5,6 or more transistors. When you run below WOT you are pushing only a few FETs out of each row, they are having to handle the current load. These things were never designed to run at one mid throttle setting permanently. End result is the centre FETs usually overheat and blow from the load. It happens with all ESC's if they are being run close to their recommended limits.

As a direct opposite, many flyers of competiton gliders are pulling well over their ESC's max cont' ratings with WOT and experiencing no failures, but then they hit WOT for 10+ seconds and shut down.

stradivari

Can anyone help me on this: do TP 30A ESC's have soft start function?
Thanks

pilotpete2

Being located in OZ, you should be aware that some fine ESC's are made in Kansas I think a lady named Dorothy is in charge of customer sevice
All kidding aside , CC has great customer support, but you pay a bit more.
Regards,
Pete

superjim

Lol @ Pilotpete2! The sad thing is there are people who actually believe Kansas is a state of Australia and that pensylvania is where dracula lives!

stradivari: There's no soft-start function I'm aware of on the TP ESCs. That said, the wind-up on a brushless motor is less violent than the brushed equivalent. Why do you ask?

whissel_blowa

Yes TP does claim to have soft start programmed into the TP30AG2, which is the generation 2 esc range. I have however not seen my props start slowly ever There is a delay before the esc fires up the phases, but thats it.

whissel_blowa

Who believes kansas is a state of Australia? Not any Australians I know!! Of course we all still ride kangaroos, which we keep in our back yards, and crocodile dundee is a real folk hero who single handedly brough the croc plague under control...

Frank95-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

Which wire to the rx does one clip to disable the BEC on a brushless ESC, ( and using a separate BEC) the positive or the negative?

Thanks in advance,

Frank

superjim

Yes, those were terrible times before crocodile dundee saved us from the tyrannical crocodile plague... I lost several shrimp from my bbq to those damned beasts.

Where abouts are you in AUS moccaoz? I'm up here in tropical north Queensland.

What sort of advantage does the soft start give the user? Does it affect how quickly the prop ramps up once the motor is spinning (e.g throttling from half throttle to full throttle)

stradivari

I asked about soft start because it protects the gear box. With the Himax 2025-5300 and its standard gear box, the gear set lasts about one, one hour and half, so considering that my Align esc got burned, I was considering to buy a new esc equipped with soft start.

usedhippo

i am running a tp 30a gen2 esc on a ultrafly e/10/10 outrunner and it works great. i know several other people with them and they love them to

robbob

Hi there!

I bought a towerpro 30A G2 esc for my depron plane. I switched on and i can programming it and then switched off. Next time when i switched on it made a beep code. (here is the recording from the beeping: [link=http://www.cifi.hu/beep.mp3]beep[/link]
My lipo is fully charged, i switched on the transmitter first and the esc is in the 3. channel on the receiver.

Have you got idea what did i wrong?

Thanks for your help!

whissel_blowa

Its the sound you get when the ESC has not initialised. Unplug it and plug it back into the battery, make sure you plug it in first time, I get this sometimes due to very tight deans plugs and not being able to push the contacts together instantly.

robbob

hi!
i've got the solution. my receiver was wrong.

thanks for your answer!

Glacier Girl

My Feedback: (4)

Well I was not a believer of these cheap motors and escs. But just for S & G's I tried a couple.
Well I'm a believer now.
2 Tp 2410-9Y's with the 30 amp esc's, spin the props on both this 4 pound P38 and 2 pound B25.


Oh and back to the subject. I just bought 6 more of the 30 amp escs. And none of them would program. I emailed them last night and got a reply this morning.
Newest shipment of the esc's did not get programmed at the factory.
Here's what you need to do to correct this.

Brushless ESC User Guide(10A/15A/30A)
Extreme Usage:
10A :max 10A 13A Burst 10 senconds
15A: max 15A 25A Burst 10 seconds
30A: max 30A 40A Burst 10 seconds
Unit Size/Weight:
10A: 23mm*17mm*5mm 4g (without wires) 8g ( with wires)
15A: 32mm*24mm*7mm 11g (without wires) 21g (with wires)
30A: 32mm*24mm*7mm 11g (without wires) 23g (with wires)
Voltage Scope: 4V-15V
Battery: 4-10 NIMH 2-3 LIPO
BEC Output: 10A—1.5A (instant 2A): 2 LIPO 4 mini servo actuator 3 LIPO 3 servo actuator
20A—2A (instant 3A): 2LIPO 4-5servo actuator 3 LIPO 3-4 servo actuator
30A-2A ( instant 3A): 2LIPO 4-5 servo actuator 3LIPO 3-4 servo actuator
Protection Function:
Auto choice 2-3 LIPO individual protection valtage: 6V/9V
Auto choice NIMH, each cell protection valtage is 0.8V
Safe start, wrong throttle position will forbid start.
Temperature protection, a surface temperature of 110 degree will stop down.
Non-control protection, stop down when without signal for 1 second.
Character Description:
Max-rotation, 2 poles inner rotation up to 300000 RPM.
12 poles outer rotation up to 50000 RPM.
14 poles outer rotation up to 42000 RPM .
8K PWM control, with rotation speed control curve. Fit for auto throttle and more remote
Control equipments. 20A/30A with BEC and MCU power supply, the work is more security.
Setup:
-First, connect the motor and receiver to the speed controller
-Remove battery power from the speed controller.
-Turn on the transmitter.
-Move throttle stick on full power position,(UP Position)
-Reconnect battery power to the speed controller
After 2sec you can hear
BEEP showing LIPO auto-protection
BEEP BEEP showing NIMH/NICD auto-protection
BEEP BEEP BEEP showing select of brake
BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP showing re-setting of factory parameters.
All sounding will continue, unless operation instruction.
If the option is you need ,then move the throttle stick to lowest position.
The engine will give a BEEP sound for approval.
Then, if need other setting, put the throttle to the top quickly, and you will do the next choice.
After all of your settings are ok, then waiting for 2 seconds, the engine will give out suitable
approval sound of battery protection, and approve the throttle position. Then you may start.

Factory parameters resetting function: When the characters such as the elec-adjuster acceleraton or diversion or throttle curve, etc are changed from the new product, a factory parameters setting can be made to get the best characters.


One last thing. If an esc is droppping the number of FET's depending on throttle position, they will get very hot. The esc does not drop the volts/amps going to the motor like a faucet. They only change the length of time the motor is getting full power, to regulate speed.
So less FET's still getting the same amp/volt hit will cause them to heat up very quickly.
This info was provided by Joe at Castle.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Hey, do you have a Dynam 18a in stock? I need one.

Parkflight

I've been having trouble trying to understand the programming of the Tower Pro ESC 30A. Right now I'm not even able to initiate a start. My Tower ProESC 30A came with confusing instructions from China and I only seem able to run the motor for a mere 5 secs or so before it dies, and it will not perform this every time, basically I do not seem to be able arm it let alone program it for other functions. Has anyone out there got their head around this? Any hands on experience or a fool-proof programming method greatly appreciated.

wes328

I was wondering if there is a problem with how many servos i can use with the bec can I add a RX battery to the bec in parallel so it draws from the battery and does not over heat the bec? Or, do i have to disable the bec and how do you do that there are no instructions that i have found for that.

superjim

wes328 :
You need to disconnect the red wire from the ESC to disable the ESC BEC. Then you can simply plug your receiver batteries into a spare receiver socket.

Better yet, you can get a dedicated BEC unit which can draw its power from the main battery saving you the extra weight dedicated receiver batteries would add. You can add a lot more servos using a separate BEC unit too. I'm pretty sure the TP ESC can only take two cheap servos or three expensive ones.

Bernoo

I have a tower pro 60a speedy. I tried to program it to 5s lipo but it wont work. Followed the instructions and even downloaded some programming instructions but to no avail. Only works on my 3s pack. Anyone else had a problem with programing 5s lipos?