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Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?

Old 08-31-2005, 03:50 PM
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enufwind
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Default Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?

Please advise on this electric overheating issue:

Setup:
Zagi XS
eFlite Park 400 brushless motor
eFlite 40 amp brushless speed control
9.6 V NiCd 1800 Mah battery
5x5 stock prop

The motor gets too hot to touch in only several seconds. The speed controller gets hot also.

The motor and ESC are brand new. (Replaced after 20 Amp ESC and Park 370 burned out)

It's been suggested that I use 5" prop with less pitch or a smaller prop. It's also been suggested that I use a 6x4 prop.

Please confirm that prop size and pitch would make a noticable difference and which way to go would be best.

I'm concerned that smaller props would be too small and fragile because they seem to be marketed for control line airplanes.

Note: I'm not the type of flyer that is all crazy about speed and am very rarely on full throttle but would like to find a setup that I can not worry about the motor or ESC melting every other flight even during leisurely flights.
Old 08-31-2005, 04:05 PM
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UH34D
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Default RE: Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?

I had the s[]ame problem. I put a Park 400 on my Zagi with a 25a ESC. That thing got hotter than blazes so I pulled it off and threw it back in the box. Someone told me that that motor is designed to be hooked up to a GWS gearbox. If that's the case I wish the guy at the hobby shop would have told me so.
Jim
Old 08-31-2005, 04:05 PM
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Glacier Girl
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Default RE: Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?

How many amps are you pulling with your set up?????
Might be the problem. I just checked, the 370s are only rated to a max of 7 amps depending on kv rating. I imagine the 400 is in that range also.
Note also, my experience with the E-flights haven't been very good, I went throught 7 of them in under 6 months, all replaced under warranty by Horizon, on last one I had them replace with a Hacker 49. No more problems.
Old 08-31-2005, 05:06 PM
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exeter_acres
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Default RE: Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?

Hmmm... I run a Mega 1615/4 on my Zagi and use a 5.5 x 4.5 prop,,, pulls around 20 to 25 amps at WOT...

I've never heard of the eflite being used in a direct drive fashion.....hopefully someone can chime in....
Old 09-03-2005, 09:38 AM
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777
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Default RE: Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?

I don't believe that the Park 400 was intended for that kind of usage. I use mine in 3D planes and with a gearbox on parkflyers.

Wings really benefit from something like Exeter Acres says above; 16/15/4. That's what I have on a Unicorn

Brad
Old 09-17-2005, 01:46 AM
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aflipz
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Default RE: Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?

well, the motor does come with a direct drive prop ardaptor so it must have a few prop/cell count setups that work. Wich ones? sorry i have no clue, i use mine (in fact a 370) in a rc18t

do some load tests with different props and try to stay close to the specified range. If not enough power to fly to your liking, well get a bigger hammer! Also there are different kv rating park 400's wich one do you have?
Old 09-17-2005, 12:02 PM
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777
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Default RE: Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?


ORIGINAL: aflipz

well, the motor does come with a direct drive prop ardaptor so it must have a few prop/cell count setups that work.
Well, you make a good point!

I do have E-Flite heat sinks on mine. That should help.

Brad
Old 09-17-2005, 01:39 PM
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aflipz
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Default RE: Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?

If i were in that situation i'd ring up e-flite and ask straight up for some setup examples or guidelines.

If i got no straight answer from them wich wouldn't surprise me. (they were no help with my park 400 outru8nner 920kv) i'd call castle creations, and ask what they use with their equivalent kv motors. the eflite 400 inrunner comes in 2 flavors, 4200kv and 5400kv if i'm not mistaken. Generally speaking the higher the kv the smaller and shorter pitch prop. The faster it spins the more air it moves and thus increasing loads on the motor and prop. The eflite motor cans are same diameter and length as their mamba series motors (available in 3700 4200 5400 6800 and 8000kv flavors) To prove my point, the 8000kv is simply not even useable with any prop because it spins too fast and would load up too much (1/18th car use only). They say it would need something like a 16:1 gear ratio and a 6x3.8 prop or something like that wich isn't really practical... Plus even with low load it can handle a lipo at 15 amps for about 3 minutes before overheating (200f and up!) You are supposed to keep it under 180F to prevent demagnetisation. As a rule of thumb, if you put saliva on your finger and touch the hot motor if it goes tsss it's too late, that's over 220F and the process has begun to take place. When this happens the magnets get a little weaker, therefore the motor heats more to generate the same amount of power, and down the spiral you go... A burnt esc or overdrawn battery is in your future.

In direct drive applications even a short pitch like a 3.8 can actually be very fast, because of the high rpms. overloading it with excessive pitch will cause loss of rpm's, load up the motor, creating heat instead of power.

I certainly don't think your esc is at fault, 40 amps capacity is 4 times the requirement of the motor. Though sometimes their is more to it than that. The extremely helpfull guys at castle creations (buy their products, it's worth it) explained a phenomenon that was unknown to me. Ripple current, It seems when you use a pack that cannot provide enough juice to supply the motor's demands the esc can be dammaged, even if it has a capacity several times above the motor used. Apparently that big capacitor is used to hold power for surge demands, if the motor draws more amps than the battery can provide the capacitor can be discharged completely, then attemps to re-charge the cap from the pack at the same time as the pack struggles to provide power to the motor. This cycle happens several times per second (hence the term ripple, i think) and generates massive amounts of heat in the capacitor and the fets. Enough so that sometimes the heat generated is so high that it can actually blow the cap melting the esc silicone wire in the process... The silicone used is rated for 1300F! This can happen on a phoenix 25 esc with a tp 900mah lipo, only rated for about 10 amps if used with a motor that demands more than 10 amps. At least that's a vulgarisation of what i think i understood... Basically wierd stuff we don't know about is happenning in these electronics. This is still pretty new stuff, hopefully the future will bring more knowledge to enthusiasts like us and ultimately take all guesswork out of rc electric flight. For now, gentelemen; to your slide rules! (if you are old enough to know what a slide rule is)
Old 09-19-2005, 01:55 AM
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Default RE: Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?

That set up will draw 45+ amps, way too much for the e-flite 400. That motor will last if you keep the amp draw around 20. a 4x3 looks real good for direct drive use. Amp draw about 20, static thrust around 20 oz and static propspeed around 100 mph. That should haul your frieght.

Randy
Old 09-19-2005, 11:08 PM
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theHarpmanDan
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Default RE: Overheating eFlight Brushless and ESC?

hello,
I just bought the park 400 3700kv brushless.....it hauls ass! I put it on a 36in minibee and it hits over 100mph in a dive and cruises strait up. here is my setup....2000mah 3s1p lipo, 18amp jeti controller, and a apc 4.2 x 4 prop. It draws around 19 amps..guesstimate.

if you have the higher kv motor you will need to use an even smaller prop...by the way...dont nose your wing into the ground with the throttle pinned! I broke the shaft off and had to order a replacement. I am going to work on customizing the broken one to have a larger shaft...will let you all know if it works out.

go faster

theharpman

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