skinnerfam95

Please make an objective comparison of the following four engines: Cemech Python 60, Himax HC2212-0840, Hacker A20-30M, and XMotor 300A . My intent is to put this motor on the [link=http://www.hobby-lobby.com/yak55.htm]HL Yak-55[/link] as an improvement to the suggested Esskay 400XT (1.5oz/950KV) which seems to perform fairly well in the [link=http://hobby-lobby.com/media/SK055-Yak55.wmv]HL video (2.1MB)[/link]- if I've made good choices, I've made a better plane for around $20 more.

Any suggestions beyond these four are more than welcome- preferable cheaper, lighter, and more powerful(unless I've already overdone it). I would be more than willing to get into a CDROM/KIT motor if someone could convince me that it would perform similar to the video.

Cemech Python 60
http://hobby-lobby.com/brushless-cemech.htm
KV=????
Weight=1.12oz
Max Power=60W
Need to confirm: appears to come with Prop Saver; combo price with Jeti Plus 8A $116 or motor only for $66.90

Himax HC2212-0840
http://www.allerc.com/product_info.p...oducts_id=1632
http://www.toddsmodels.com/Brushless...212-Series.pdf
KV=840
Weight = 1.1oz
1-4.5A; 5A max
Max Power=50W
Need to confirm: appears to come with Prop Saver and connectors for $53.95

Hacker A20-30M
http://www.espritmodel.com/
KV=980
Weight=42g(~1.5oz)
14A max
Combo includes X-12 ESC, connectors and a prop for $100 or motor only for $65

XMotor 300A
http://www.3dxhobbies.com/cart/index...roducts_id=130
KV=1000
Weight = 44g (~1.6oz)
12A max
Need to confirm: appears to come with Prop Saver and connectors for $56.99

bhole74

Keep in mind I am new to foamys and the Yak is my first FLYING foamy.It may be partially due to building (used plenty of glue, maybe too much?) but mine came out tail hevy with the A20-30M and had to move the pack in front of the balance point. I have a second to build and it may come out differently. My point is that it did need the nose weight of the bigger motor. My Red Bull came out at the balance point with everything in the recommended positions, but had to send everything back because it was all defective(Rimfire, esc, battery).[:'(]

skinnerfam95

Sorry to hear about the Red Bull misfortune.

From my research, the A20-30M and the 400XT are almost dead equal regarding weight. Possibly because the Hacker is shorter and doesn't hange out as far? Would it be possible to get photo(s) of how you mounted your Hacker?

All that said, despite the balancing act during building, can you comment on how it flies with the Hacker motor? And why did you pick the Hacker in the first place?

bhole74

Sorry, no pics. I usually have to borrow my sister-in-laws camera, but the wife is getting me one of my own for Christmas, until then.. I used the supplied ply mount from the kit, although not the best quality of wood, it has held up. The motor comes with a pair of mounts, two different prop adapters and screws so you can mount it in front or behind the firewall, I mouted mine in front, just like the instructions show.
It has plenty of power with the Hacker, with the 9x4.7 prop, it hovers at just under half throttle, hammer it and it goes straight up in a hurry. It kept me out a tree or two. I bought the Hacker based on reputation and recommendations from a couple buddys, and the LHS has them in stock. He also carries E-flight, but has had a few returns for problems like I had with the Rimfire and I wasn't going there twice. The motor and esc were $99.99 when purchased together, savings of $10 from seperate price. I may have looked around on the net and found them cheaper, but I've been burned one too many times with online purchases. I now support my LHSs.

blueline

My Feedback: (6)

Frankly I would go with the Himax motor, as there are not as sensitive to different props and batteries.

skinnerfam95

Could you please describe what you mean by sensitive?

blueline

My Feedback: (6)

With any of the four different Himax motors I have, I can run a variety of prop's and battery voltages per the manufacture via the included refenence guide=each prop causing a different amperage rating. It's been my experience and my LHS as well, that some of the other manufactures are less tolerant of swinging a variety of props and battery packs, i.e., you have to use specific props and batteries. Hope this is of some help.

luthier12001

Skinnerfam95

The Esskay is the motor I used on my HL Yak 55 as-well-as the home built you saw me fly the other day. The home built is probably an ounce or so heavier than the Yak because of the extra carbon fiber and tape/covering job I did and I have more than enough power. The Hacker is the better motor and probably can be pushed a little harder but to be honest I haven't needed to push the Esskay any harder. The most I have used is a 10 x 4.7 APC E prop, which is slightly more pitch than the 10 x 3.8 that came with the motor, and the motor has never been more than warm to the touch. I think my cheap 10 amp ESC would go long before the motor. Is there anyone out there that has pushed the esskay motors or has any performance data?

As far as the other motors go, IMO they are a little under powered. You need roughly 9-10 watts per ounce of AUW as your baseline for 3D flying and 6-7 per ounce for sport/acro flying (which is what you were saying you prefer). My Yak weighed in at over 10 ounces AUW (using a non precision scale) so 60 to 100 watts to me would be the minimum. 100 watts would give you solid sport performance and a basic 3D capability should you decide you want to try it. anything over that just makes 3D better!

I'll give 1 more suggestion...for only $9 more you can get the Hacker 20-20l and x-20 ESC. It is a little overkill but you can prop down to 10-12 amps at WOT and have a motor that you can move up with. It weighs 1/2 ounce more than the H20-30 combo but the extra power will easily cover it. My Yak was a little tail heavy as was bhole74's and the extra weight should be no problem. More food for thought...


As a side note, the servos you are looking at might be a little underpowered too. I'll get with you tomorrow about that.

R/C Dallas

skinnerfam95

So before I start, I think I would like to be talked into a westport-design.com brushless! Before I post I'll swing the other way and be asking if anyone has a design to mount a Volkswagon starter motor to a foamy! lol

Wow, great recommendations. I did strongly consider the Hacker A20-22L (same weight as the 20L, but lower KV for more torque). I just can't get over the idea that the extra .5oz of the bigger motor on an 8oz plane is 5% of it's total weight. If I considered my real life C-150, I would not bat an eye at leaving 100lbs on the ground. I wish there were one standard for publishing the wattage of a motor. That would make choosing a motor with your rules much easier.

I realize that thrust can solve weight problems, but I like the style of indoor flying (burst and float if you will) like in the below link (2MB). 32" span, 6.2oz, and AZFAI Single CDROM, 2S LiPo on an 8x4.3 prop:
http://www.foamyfactory.com/videos/mini-3dx-mike.wmv

If I could understand the CDROM motors better to get good low AMP performance on a 2S LiPo I think I would be happy down around 7oz AUW. With the lack of empirical data on the CDROM motors I choose to look into the Python and the Himax weighing in at 1oz. Keep in mind, I spent a whole day talking myself into and then out of the Hacker 20-34S which I wanted to push pretty hard to get 15oz of thrust- 1500KV finally broke the desire for that motor.

Maybe I am coming to the logical choice of the following (click the link below and scroll all the way down):
http://www.westport-design.com/cd_ro...ess_motors.htm

These are gobrushless.com design with carbon fiber instead of brass making weight under 3/4oz! I'm back to small props and small 2S LiPos! I just want enough juice to be able to manuver like in the video above. I don't understand those calculators on goBrushless.com.

This is a video with twin "Westports". Warning 49MB download but it flies like a bat out of you know where.
http://www.westport-design.com/Video...iden%20RAW.mpg

skinnerfam95

Please derail me from this path if I am dead wrong and please don't miss the above thread- I just found some more stuff on the Westport CDROM option.

Check out this 1.7MB clip. It is a 27" winspan, 5.2oz aircraft that pulls a decent vertical climb- and I don't think that is full throttle based on the sound of the other videos available at m-a-e.com
http://www.m-a-e.com/Videos/Powering...%20Blender.WMV

I figure my YAK-55 could be about 6-7oz with that westport motor and a 2S Lipo.

More thoughts on this, or am I headed in the wrong direction? If so, why? I'm looking at the best performance for the lighter class airplanes. If I get a bigger plane, then I'll pick one of the four. Consider that the foamyfactory.com video features a CDROM motor and that is a 32" wingspan.

http://www.m-a-e.com/Sub%20Pages/Pro...eme%20Kits.htm
The above link shows two configurations of CDROM motors:
1) 20-turn w/ 9x5 prop
2) 25-turn w/10x6 prop (for indoor)

Could someone give a quick summary breaking down the turns (which I assume is torque or KV) and prop selection (which I assume is speed vs climb) for each application?

luthier12001

You are thinking the right way if indoor flying is what you are after. The lighter the better and a cd rom motor with 2 cell lipo definately beats out the heavier motors and 3 cell lipos in that arena. There is one thing I do want to point out about the HL-Yak though...those shocky type planes you see in those videos are made from 3mm depron vs the 6mm that the Yak is made from. That means that the airframe alone is already twice the weight for the same size plane. All other things being equal, it will require twice the power to get the same performance as those birds. Normally that equates to even more weight and so on and so forth.

Although the HL-Yak, in the hands of an experienced indoor pilot, is capable of flying indoors it wasn't really deigned for the type of flying you see in the videos. It is going to require more speed to maneuver because of it's weight and would be better at flying outdoors in calm to light wind doing sport and 3D type flying. It will be a good flying plane for the type of flying it was meant to do and I know you will have a blast flying it. But if you intend to go the indoor route I would suggest going 3mm depron shocky style. I have some 3mm laying around and would be glad to help you throw together an indoor plane if you what to try the lighter stuff first. Just need to pick the plan you want to use...Oh yeah, those servos you were looking at would be good for the indoor stuff but are a littlle to small for anything acrobatic/3D above 10-12 ounces AUW.

R/C Dallas

Henli

I recently got an Amo 20 size electrifly brusless motor.
My Question is, does it work with a 25A electrifly silver series ESC or do I have to get an specific sensorless ESC for it?

Thanks for your help.

KantoModelAir

Hey, I know 2 of you guys here. Found this thread looking about the esskay 400XT motor you were telling me about at work Mr. R/C Dallas!
The skinner name sounds familiar too