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Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

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Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

Old 05-04-2009, 06:06 PM
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FlooredCOBRA
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Default Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

I am looking to get a larger motor than the E-Flight motor I have now. I think I am low on power and need to upgrade to something with more grunt. I know the 480 is bigger but what else is equal to this size? When I see the numbers of the other motors I am lost such as 2208 or 2212. Does anyone have any good suggestions?

I am using a 12x6 right now and mostly want to turn this same prop at a higher speed for some more pull and speed. Not looking to hover. I like the diameter of this prop since I need some air over my wings and to avoid the canopy.

Any help would be great thanks
Old 05-04-2009, 06:39 PM
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Dr Kiwi
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

The E-flite 480 is 87g so it is only a little larger than the typical 3530 motors. There are plenty of those to choose from, but if you really must have a 12x6 you are going to need a low Kv 3536 or bigger. Even low Kv 3530 motors can't cope with a 12x6 on 3s. You must be running your 450 and 12x6 on 2s.... surely!

2208 and 2212 are stator dimensions... other makers (using, for example, 3530) have a convention referring to external dimensions.
Old 05-04-2009, 08:39 PM
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FlooredCOBRA
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

Okay this is going to sound stupid but what is 2s or 3s? Reason I used a 12x6 is because on the directions it said it was okay to run it with it. Also at the hobby shop I asked for a matching setup for that plane. I am so lost with these new electrics brushless motors and all. All I know is I am really liking them more than gas now days.

Before I ran this prop I used to run a 11x3.8 on my E-Flight Edge 540BP. I never liked the 12x6 in that plane. Was always to fast so I kept it to the flat 11x3.8 . Now I have the same motor in something a little bigger and tried it with the 12x6. It works fine but I need a little bit more power.

These motors you mentioned above what size esc do they use? Are those getting up there to equal to a .40 size engine or are these smaller? I am trying to stay small and light as I can if possible.
Old 05-04-2009, 08:54 PM
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DaveFlynn
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

For .40 to .46 glow size power with that prop, look at the AXI 4120/14 660 Kv size motor on 5 or 6 cells.
Old 05-04-2009, 10:17 PM
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Dr Kiwi
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

2s lipo (2 cells in series) = 7.4v nominal
3s lipo (3 cells in series) = 11.1v nominal

For higher voltages, you need to reduce prop size... that's why 12x6 is too much for a 450/480 on 3s.
Old 05-04-2009, 10:42 PM
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DaveFlynn
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

That AXI flies a 6.5 pound plane with a 12x4 or 12x6 and 6S1P 2100mAh. On the ground the amps are a bit high, but it averages around 10 amps in the air.
Old 05-05-2009, 12:06 AM
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FlooredCOBRA
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

Oh gezz I been messing up then. I been flying with the 3S Lipo. Wow I'm not sure what to run now. I guess I need to weigh it and see how much I need to pull it. I'm going to end up burning out my motor at the rate I am going.
Old 05-05-2009, 12:39 AM
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DaveFlynn
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

Yes, keep an eye on the amps. I'm finding that the max amps numbers the manufacturers taught run on the high side. If you put more amps into a motor than it can use to make torque it will make heat instead.
Old 05-05-2009, 07:42 PM
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Dr Kiwi
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

ORIGINAL: FlooredCOBRA

Oh gezz I been messing up then. I been flying with the 3S Lipo. Wow I'm not sure what to run now. I guess I need to weigh it and see how much I need to pull it. I'm going to end up burning out my motor at the rate I am going.

(1) weigh the plane by all means... that will get you an idea of how many watts you will need to get good performance (150-200W/lb if you are doing serious aerobatics).

(2) on the basis of (1) choose a motor (for the watts) of the correct Kv for the correct-sized prop which can get you the thrust you need (at correct pitch speed) without over-doing the amp/watts limit for the motor.

(3) having set up the motor chosen in (2) beg, borrow, steal or (preferably) buy a Wattmeter... so you can find out exactly what your motor draws in your set-up.
Old 05-18-2009, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?



It would help if you could give us some specs on the plane you're flying, and what type of flying you do with it.



I have a 63" Extra 330L that I converted to electric. It's just over 7lbs flying weight, and i'm using an E-flite Power 60 motor with a 15x10 prop, 2650ma 3s1p LiPo's x2 in series. On the watt meter, only draws about 37-38 amps at about 700 watts. The plane has plenty of power, and I usually never have to go past half throttle, unless I'm Taking off or doing verticals.



From what it sounds like, your plane is a bit smaller than that, but my reply is in response to your question 'what's bigger than an E-flite 450-480'.



One suggestion, go to Electrifly.com and check out their motors. They give you a VERY comprehensive breakdown of the motor dimentions, as well as the power readings/prop sizes, etc. Very good selection of motors.They are pretty reasonably priced also.

Old 05-19-2009, 04:53 PM
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FlooredCOBRA
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

Well here are some specs. It weighs about 30 ounces and is 3 feet long and 31 inches wide. The whole thing has been a guessing game since there is no right or wrong on what I am flying. Its scratch built and trying to find the best set up. It is a matter of would work best.

I had a 12x6 prop on it at first and thats what I used on a test model and it worked but it was lighter. Someone stated that that was to large for 3cell lipo so I pulled it off. I dont want to burn out my motor. I went down to a 11x5 but have not tried that yet. It has been so windy and I dont want to take chances.

I would really rather use that 12x6 because of the larger diameter. But will use what ever works best.

Here is a picture maybe that will help seeing that this is a little different from a plane. I'm open to anything
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:35 PM
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speedy72vega
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

Wow, cool project. One problemI see is the lack of lifting area. I now understand the need for a larger prop. If i'm seeing it right, it looks like you have the motor mounted at the end of that long shaft?? What if you mounted a bigger motor inside of that center pod and had the prop right behind??? If you put a large motor at the end of that shaft, I don't think it would last too long.......If you used the pod for a motor housing with the prop right in back, you should be able to run a big enough motor for a 14" prop?? Maybe even 15". It sure seems likek that model is going to need some pretty decent airspeed in order to fly?? Has it flown yet?Or are you still in the development stage?
Old 05-19-2009, 09:04 PM
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speedy72vega
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

One more thing Iwant to add. You mentioned that someone told you that a 12x6 prop is too much for a 3s LiPo.........That's a misleading statement. When choosing a prop, lots of things need to be taken into consideration, but the most important thing is the motor. Is the motor suitable to turn the prop you want to use? How much current will it take to turn that prop? How much thrust do you need? How much speed do you need?

There are plenty of motors out there that will turn a 12x6 prop with a 3s LiPo, it just depends on battery capacity, discharge rate, what voltage range can the motor operate on, etc.
As a general rule of thumb, the lower the kv rating, the lower RPM the motor is designed to run at, but at a higher torque level. The opposite is true also, the higher kv rating, the higher RPM range the motor will operate in, but less torque. So, knowing this, a lower kv motor will turn a large prop at lower rpm's, and a high kv motor will turn a smaller prop, but at a higher rpm range.
You also need to invest in a watt meter, that way you can try different props, and actually see the motor draw so you don't overdo it, or vice versa.
You need to try to figure out what the required thrust will be to fly that model, and go from there. Keep in mind though, as you add power, you will also be adding weight-bigger motor/ESC, higher capacity batteries, etc. So it almost becomes a 2 edged sword, so to speak. Once you know the general thrust requirements, then you can decide which prop, and subequently, which motor/ESC/batteries to turn it.Hopefully that helps you more than confuses you
Old 05-19-2009, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

hey some good points there. Yeah looks like I need to get a watt meter to get some numbers. I will give that 11x5 a shot  and see what it reads and how it pulls. A lot has  changed since I first messed around with electrics in the late 80's early 90's. I love the power these things put out compared to the old 540 and 7.2 packs with the 100 lbs weight penalty. haha

Well as for my design on the ship. Trust me I have went through many trial and error with that thing until I found one that works. This is the final set up on the design that works. I have not flown this one yet due to trying to find motor setup and wind.  As for the test model it was just that, a plain white foam model with many crashes. It was a huge pain to find where to mount the motor, where to put the CG, and where to have the wings. After numerous attempts this was the final set up that worked. I almost bailed out on the project until made a miniature model to find the cg and wing set up. That worked and I copied to the full size and it flew. If it wasn't for the miniature I was about to give up and trash the idea that it was only made to fly in space .

As odd as it looks it flies Very well and easy. It does not require any speed at all to fly. Matter fact to land I point into a nose up in harrier and putt it to the ground. No stall characteristics, no wing tips stalls or wing rock it just flies. It flies like an over forgiving trainer but without the lift with air speed.

As much as I like these new motors I wish there was a common language for the size and types and specs. Seems each company is using their own terms and that has been a real pain. I will find something that works eventually.
 
Old 05-20-2009, 12:46 PM
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?


ORIGINAL: Dr Kiwi

2s lipo (2 cells in series) = 7.4v nominal
3s lipo (3 cells in series) = 11.1v nominal

For higher voltages, you need to reduce prop size... that's why 12x6 is too much for a 450/480 on 3s.

I fly an E-flite Edge 540 with an Eflite 450 and a 12 X 6 APCelectric prop using 3S 1300 mah and have no problems with it. The motor gets warm, but not hot. I've been flying it like this for over a year. I also use the 12 X 6 with an Elite 480 with no problems at all.
Old 05-20-2009, 05:42 PM
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FlooredCOBRA
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?

You know I used the 12x6 on my Edge 540 Bp also and it worked fine. But on that I never hit full throttle. If I did it was for vertical for about 2 seconds max. That thing is so light.
Also I found the 12x6 a little bit fast for my taste for that plane also it liked to nick the ground and grass. I ended up going with 11x3.8 and liked that prop best. Was a bit lighter also.

I found when I flew with the 12x6 on my test model it was at about full throttle for a good bit until I got up there then chopped back down to half. This is why I started to search a better alternative because I felt like I was wide open for a bit longer than it should be.
Old 05-20-2009, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Whats bigger than the E-Flight 450 besides the 480?


ORIGINAL: FlooredCOBRA


As much as I like these new motors I wish there was a common language for the size and types and specs. Seems each company is using their own terms and that has been a real pain. I will find something that works eventually.

Did you see my earlier post about Electrifly Rimfire motors? If you go to their website, the info they give for their motors is the most comprehensive i've seen. If you find a similar motor, and all the specs aren't there, sometimes you can compare it to Electriflys charts and get a good idea of what your motor will put out.

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