blackdogafd

hey everyone just bought my first nitro rc, it's a HIMOTO syclone w/.18 vertex engine. this is my first experience w/nitro so i really dont want to screw anything up!! know what i mean... so if anyone has any advice on what i should watch out for. the car has not arrived yet it should be here within the next few days and i cant hardly wait.. please let me know if you all can help out a newb... thanks again ...

crusher666

Thank's Fuelman. I Will do just that! As soon as I get a chance again. Bloody work always interfering with a good time.

Thank's for all your help. Will keep in contact with how things are goin!
Crusher!

NITROHOLICS ANONYMOUS

My LHS told me to run it through a tank idleing then run 2-3 tanks at small throttle, 2-3 a bit more throttle etc. and then run WOT for 2-3 secs then 1/2 for 2-3 tanks then ya done. What do you think of this method, Thanks.

Fuelman

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Benjy The Ultimate

Maybe he wants to sell you pistons and sleeves long before you are truly ready for them. Maybe thats the only method they know which you can not fault them for, since that method has been incorrectly brainwashed into everybody in the car / buggy world for a number of years.
Maybe you can try it the other way and teach them.

blackdogafd

hey fuelman, just wanted to say thanks for all the help with my syclone. its good to know that there's someone out there that has been doing this for a while and is able to help out a newbie. The car runs great and i couldnt be any happier, thanks again for all the help!!!!




nitro HIMOTO Syclone .18 vertex

coloradokurtis

Hey FUELMAN is white lightning ok to break in with it is 30% nitro and 8% oil. yes I know that it is a low oil content. but w/the higher nitro content the engine runs cooler. I think that most fuels have too much oil in them so you try to tune for performance and you lean it to much and end up burnning up your engine. plus with the lower oil content it seems to get up to operating temp faster witch would help expand the sleeve to reduce friction. I am going to finish putting my mach .28 on my LST in the morning and start the heat cycles. but should I use my sidewinder fuel that has 12% oil to break in with. will the extea oil help? It seems that the most important thing is the expansion of the cylinder sleeve in the break in. and yes I will clean out all of the metal shavings out before I start the break in and seal the carb and back plate. Thanks Kurt P.S say what ever you wan't. you wont hurt me. this All came from my little pea brain correct me in any way.

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

Kurt,
I personaly would use the 12% oil stuff for the first few tanks. Believe it or not, the higher oil content will help it come up to operating temp quicker than low oil fuel, and thats what you want at break in. The slightly higher oil content will also help all the brand new parts break in because the oil film is a little more abundent to help carry away the debris from new parts seating themselves against one another.
You can do it on the lower oil content fuel but my professional opinion is a better end result is achieved with a little more oil on the first few tanks.

Also, remember to run it crisp and clean and not too lean, right from the first start. Do not idle it on a box or just putt around, run the thing with some periodic high throttle runs to get your mixture set lean enough where it runs crisp and clean and rich enough where it does not sag at short high speed passes. Three or four tanks of the higher oil sidewinder should be more than adequate to get a nice sweet running engine before switching over to the 8% oil fuel. Always let the engine cool down (so it is comfortable to the touch), between tanks of fuel for the first three or four tanks. Remember that when you switch fuels, you will always have to retune to the new fuel. Give it a couple more tanks on the 8% before you start extracting maximum performance out of the engine. No need for a temp gun during break in because you need to resist the urge to see it read some magical number, use your ears.

coloradokurtis

Thanks FUELMAN for the tips to help my LST2 kill all of the other monster trucks at the local track. Thanks Kurt

Hirns

Sorry if I repeat stuf this thread is long.

As an automotive mechanic the beliefs are mirorred from full size thinking. Once slow and easy was the approach, now common sense says that to never heat it up during run in wears a groove in the piston liner to a certain height vertical height only. The piston may be very well seated, however at WOT the engine's heat means that the metal of the engine expands vetically as well as horizontially. When the piston expands vertically at WOT it may hit at the lower lip/step created from low temp run in. That is in a full, scale engine the rings can hit this worn in ridge and break, destroying the engine. Hence the adoption of the new theorey to vary throttle and temp.

Hope this all makes sense.

Hirns.

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

Hirns,
I have never seen a ridge worn into an ABC or ABC type engine, which all rc car engines are. In a ringed engine where the ring tension will physically wipe the sleeve surface area, this will happen over time.

In all my years dealing with RC engines, I have only seen a ridge worn into one ringed engine and that was an old Fox 40 large frame that was extremely well used when I got it and I put almost 400 more hours on it before it just would not perform well anymore. Ridge was so deep it needed a sleeve replacement and a new ring.

FoxRacR17

Fuelman, i got a question for you, i was looking at the blue thunder fuels and i saw that they have a special "first run" fuel. You can look at it here: http://www.dynamiterc.com/Products/D...ProdID=DYN2100
I was wondering if you would suggest using this to break in my new O.S. 18 CV-RX engine that i put in my HPI MT2. Also, what oil % and nitro % oil from blue thunder would you suggest running in my O.S.?

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

FoxRac,
It sounds like to me to be another marketing gimmick.
Use the standard stuff and if you want a little more oil in your fuel for the first quart, then add some CASTOR OIL. the hobby shops usually have 8 oz or 16 oz bottles around and that will last you quite some time. You only need to add about 2 oz to a quart of standard fuel to really spike the lube qualities for first runs if you are that concerned.
I would use 20% nitro to start with and then add about 2 oz of castor to the first quart and run it like you have read here that I or Massive Mods has commented upon.

you also get castor oil at the drug store, it usually comes in 2 or 4 ounce bottles, that will work too.

FoxRacR17

Thanks for the info Fuelman, I kinda thought that it was just a marketing gimmik and thats why i wanted to as the pro before i wasted money on it when all i had to do was add some castor oil to the normal stuff. So then i should just buy a quart of 20% nitro fuel and add 2oz of castor oil to it and use that to break in my car? Also after that why % nitro should i use after my engine is broken in? Sorry for all the questions, i'm just new to the whole nitro world and i want to be sure that i dont ruin my new engine and you seem to be the expert on this subject from everything i have been reading. Thanks again bro.

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

Just stick with 20% nitro, I have yet to see a car engine not run well on 20.

bob67cam

well i have a nitro quake that ive had for about 3 years and unfortunately i was only able to run it for about 3 days before a catostrophic failure..the wristpin keeper ring had come out and the wrist pin slid into the exhaust port and was snapped in half..in any case it was a second hand car i got 3 days on it n i finally decided i had to do something with it or let it go..so i finally almost 3 years later bought a dynamite mach 26 engine which is brand newn it needed some modding to go in but it seems to fit just about perfect..im pretty much a newb at this however ive been heavy into real car engines since i was pretty young and ive done my share of motor swaps and new engine breakins..in that feild u have about the same amount of other peoples ideas everyone has a different opinion from never run it over 55 to if it starts, line it up and race the *******...n in my opinion ive come to the conclusion of after the cam breakin give it a few miles n then drive it like it will normally be driven and thats how it will tend to want to run..so thats what ive come up with as my common sense answer..so back to this subject..this is my opinion but i think fuelmans procedure is the closest to what i feel will be the common sense answer also so i think im gonna have to back him on this 1 n thats how im gonna break in this engine..so ty fuelman

nitrosportdecals

For break in I first disassemble and clean/flush the motor out very thoroughly. I then reassemble and use after run that I get from Rick @ RB mods, the stuff is amazing. It has a molasses like consistency that really sticks to and coats the internals very nicely, makes startup much easier. I put in about 8 drops through the head, and another 8 drops in the carb. Fatten the needles and turn in the idle screw this will raise the idle and help keep it running. I heat it up with a heat gun and turn it over on the starter box with no glow plug for about 8 seconds, this coats all the internals and relieves some of the stress of initial startup (cover with a rag to avoid a big mess) Put in the glow plug and crank it over. Once I fire it up, I plop it down with an oven mitt over the head and drive it. NEVER LET IT IDLE ON THE BOX WHEELS OFF THE GROUND, BAD BAD BAD. What we are trying to accomplish here with the oven mitt/fat fuel combo is a combination of a slightly fatter than normal mixture providing plenty of fuel/lube flushing out debris while the oven mitt or some other form of insulation is allowing for proper expansion of the sleeve eliminating cold wear and excessive stress normally caused by running too rich. Ease into throttle varying rpm, never sharp bursts, 3 to 4 second intervals. After about 3 minutes shut down return to BDC to cool off. Heat cycle like this, about 4 to 6 times. After about the 10th tank stop using the oven mitt start turning in the needles. (I was also told not to put in a killer race tune till at least after a gallon of fuel, this recommendation is for the novarossi motors that I am running.) If done correctly, the motor will thank you for your efforts and reward you by properly seating AT NORMAL OPERATING TEMPS WITH THE BENEFIT OF PLENTY OF LUBE. My 528 is on its 5th gallon and the liner looks polished. The motor has beautiful compression and I'm not seeing any significant wear on the conrod, did I forget to mention that it is beastly fast?Fuelman, whats your opinion on this one? I'm not an authority on this but it seems to be working out pretty good for me. Am I going overboard on this, taking unnecessary or even wrong steps in my ritual?

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

nitrosportdecals,
I have a couple of opinions on your method, first; taking the thing apart and cleaning / flushing the engine good is instrumental in a long lived engine. I reassemble all the parts back together with lots of lube, it really does not matter, whatever your favorite is. Your adding more oil to oiled parts and spinning w/o a plug does nothing but add addiional stress on the rod and pinch the piston a few more times than is absoutly necessary.
Using heat to pre heat the head is always a good idea on a new engine, I use a heat gun for shrinking rc airplane covering.
During first start, use the factory pre sets as a starting point and rev it up to a mid throttle setting with the wheels off the box so you can lean the high speed needle to a CLEAN two stroke running condition. Turn the high speed needle so it is just breaking into a clean two stroke from a blubbery 4 stroke sound, it is still extremely rich, but it will come up to design temps without becoming too lean. Throw it on the ground and start running it around, yes, even a few short bursts of wide open is good.
I disagree with the oven mit thing and settig it overly rich, as a rich two cycle sound is still more than rich enough to carry away fresh wear during break in. You want the inside of the engine to heat up as rapidly as possible and overly rich will delay that, even if you are covering the engine with a mit.
No need to prolong the break in on an ABC type engine. Get about three tank in it with complete cool downs between runs, start dialing in the low speed needle (it will probably need leaning a lot from factory settings. and start sneaking up on peak performance over the next few tanks. I would say, it should take no more than a quart of fuel to have an engine fully broken in and up to maximum power potential. Some engines will of course take a little more or less (amount of fuel) but thats to be expected due to displacement and engine design.

nitrosportdecals

Got it. Well, The guy modding my engines says he'll come down to South Florida all the way from Arkansas to beat me up if I even consider race tuning sooner than a gallon. Truth be told, I've got about 3 gallons through my 528 and it wasnt until after my first gallon that the motor actually "opened up" I had it tuned nicely and all of a sudden, "Bwaaaaaaaaah, put, put, put, stall..." all the settings became too rich and I had to retune. The thing is a ballistic missile now. Same for my p-5, Ive got just over a gallon through and I just had to retune the whole motor, it just fattened up on me. I was forewarned of this so there was no need to panic. Anyway, thanks for the 411, I have to break in another 528, I will be a little more aggressive with this one, I'll let you know how it goes.

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

Most engines will have that certain point where they will just all of a sudden become "turned on" and become a powerhouse. It does not mean that it is not fully broken in before that, it just has not hit the magical wear point where that happens.
As soon as that "power switch" is turned on is when you need to really be sure not to run it too lean or too rich (forget the temps) since thats when you want to prolong the engines characteristics for as long as possible. Once they turn on like that is when its easy to push them over the edge too hard and destroy a good engine by trying to run it cooler or trying to squeeze an extra 1/4 needle of power out of it.
Good luck and enjoy your engines, addictive hobby is'nt it?

sajuuk

HI everone ill get streight to the point im not good with instruction though i do understand what fuelman is saying its still hard becuase i have yet to get my nitro car. is there by any chance a video of your way to break in. seens seeing is best for some people. thanks =D

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

sajuuk,
Sorry, no video.

Its not that hard, get with a friend that completly understands the method and let him help you.
Or, write down the steps and follow them one by one.

Learning the relationships between lean / rich in a glow engine will take a while if you have never run these cars before. Resist the temptation to buy or use a temp gun and learn to tune with what you see and hear instead of hunting for some meaningless number on a cheap temp gun.

bob67cam

yea if u can find a level-headed buddy to give u a hand that would be about the best..just make sure he doesnt have a trail of bad engines behind him..lol but after following a buddys instruction and fuelmans tips it shoudnt take a day of running before ull hear how the engine sounds and should sound..also ill throw out an invitation to fuelman or whoever may want to create or post a video of the breakin procedure if they need a place to post it i will host it on my site for free..ive got plenty of room just throw me an i.m. or an email [sm=thumbup.gif]

SManMTB

This is not rocket science guys. As long as your hearing is OK you can do it. It's easy to tell if it's running rich or bad. Once you hear a 2-stroke running at full song you will never forget.

sajuuk

sorry but i dont have any rc friends .[][] im all alone.... by my self.... anyways i breaked in the car today!! i used your mathid i dont no if i did it right but from what i seen it must of worked. i still see a small amout of fuel spray out.a small amount only notesable in the light is that ok or should i lean it more. and when lean the short should there be white smoke coming out? when i but my hand near the muffler i got my hand grease is that normal, and one more think i think i did something wrong i must of lean it to much luckly i was not runing it i had it near by and turn it off. i notes white smoke come from the back. not alot but i must of had it to lean. and i waited tell it was nice and cold. before turning it agian and tuning it agian. remmber this is my first and i didnt have any help exp what you had wrote down. thanks

eqtrian

Sajuuk,

Check out the "HPI Tuning 1" and "HPI Tuning 2" videos at the link below. They should help you find the right sounds.

http://dads-toy.com/tuning.shtml