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Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

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Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

Old 04-06-2010, 12:05 PM
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calvino
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Default Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

I don't know if if it has been tried or not but has anyone used denatured alcohol (that's Ethanol with a little methanol... to make it so we can't drink it) as their main fuel source in their engines [X(]. I had the idea for it since its cheaper to get denatured alcohol than it is rc car fuel (as it is I plan to not run with nitro anyway) so anyone got a say on this! [&:] I am pretty sure it should work, just bump the oil content up, and you should be fine but, its always better to be safe than sorry
Old 04-06-2010, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

I'm no chemist, but I thought the common denaturing agent was benzene. I can't answer your question, but I have used Methyl Hydrate before (different name but same as methyl alcohol, methanol). Found it cheapest at the Paint Dept of the Hardware Store.

A similiar thread is here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_94...tm.htm#9486782
Old 04-06-2010, 02:58 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

Ethanol has a higher energy content per volume unit, but the heat per mole of oxygen is nearly identical to that of methanol, so given that they produce pretty much the same reaction products (Similar heat capacity), the combustion chamber pressures should be close to the same, and thus the engine performance will likely be very similar.

There are other factors to consider such as flame front speed and enthalpy of vaporization, but IIRC both alcohols have similar figures. I'll dig out my notes later and post some actual numbers...

As for the denaturing agent, I've heard from multiple sources that it can vary widely from brand to brand. They may add a whole host of toxic organic compounds such as benzene, toluene, methanol, etc. MSDS sheets will likely reveal the composition of your specific brand.
Old 04-06-2010, 03:59 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

Oops....I think this was the link with more info in it:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_94...tm.htm#9482460
Old 04-06-2010, 04:18 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

Sounds good, I think im sticking with Methanol for now, its easier and we know the motors can work off them Time to find the place with the lowest price
Old 04-06-2010, 04:57 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

methanol is $3/gallon just add your synth and castor oil and you in business. You can also buy 99.999% nitro methane by the gallon and mix your own fuel
Old 04-06-2010, 07:52 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol


ORIGINAL: xjqkz

methanol is $3/gallon just add your synth and castor oil and you in business. You can also buy 99.999% nitro methane by the gallon and mix your own fuel
Really [sm=confused.gif] I am not sure exactly where to get this stuff, hope I don't have to fill out a ton of paperwork If nitro isn't that cheap ill mix some nitro brew up, the original plan was to run without nitro since i looked it up online and it wasn't the cheapest stuff in the world [:@] At least a gallon of the pure stuff should go far. Time to build a blast bunker in the backyard
Old 04-06-2010, 10:28 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

What will be the proportion for a 30% nitro Fuel ( That's a start, got one value) 
Castrol?
Synthetic oil?
methanol?
Old 04-07-2010, 06:36 AM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

ORIGINAL: papy_yosh

What will be the proportion for a 30% nitro Fuel ( That's a start, got one value)
Castrol?
Synthetic oil?
methanol?
Are you looking for recommendations, or how to figure it out?

For calculating the amounts, this may help:

http://www.nitrorc.com/default2.asp?...rc.com/fuelws/

Recommendations arn't cast in stone, but this might be a decent start (just a guess on my part, so no complaints please):

For 4 litres of fuel, mix:

1.2 litres of nitromethane (for 30% fuel)
200 ml of Castor oil (for 5% castor)
280 ml of synthetic oil (this will add to the castor for a total of 12% oil)
2.32 litres of methanol (this will add to the other ingredients for a total of 4 litres)

To change to gallons and ounces, here's a link:

http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

Make sure you stick with US gallons and US ounces, OR stick with Imperial gallons (UK) and Imperial ounces (UK)
Old 04-07-2010, 09:31 AM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

Cool Thanks,

This is what I was looking for. I needed the % of each one.
I'm good with the calculs. And I'll use litres makes more sens to me (I'm French)



Old 08-03-2012, 06:21 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

I live in Hawaii and apparently we can't get nitro fuel anymore, so I was learning how to make my own fuel, and I keep running into problems, and I can't receive methanol or ethanol so I read that maybe I could use denatured alcohol instead of methanol so if someone could help me out I'd really appriacate it, I don't wanna give up this hobby so if I can make my own gas I would love that
Old 08-04-2012, 04:32 AM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol


ORIGINAL: Walcher361

I live in Hawaii and apparently we can't get nitro fuel anymore, so I was learning how to make my own fuel, and I keep running into problems, and I can't receive methanol or ethanol so I read that maybe I could use denatured alcohol instead of methanol so if someone could help me out I'd really appriacate it, I don't wanna give up this hobby so if I can make my own gas I would love that
You can use Denatured alcohol in place of methanol, but at greatly inflated prices and you need a specific brand. There are two main brands that I'm aware of, Sunnyside and SLX KleanStrip. The SLX Kleanstrip is the stuff you want; it is 50% methanol and 50% ethanol. You need to add oil to this, and you need a VERY HOT glow plug for this fuel to run decent. Car engines are designed for a bunch of nitro so you may have to remove the head shim from under the cylinder head in addition to using a very hot glow plug to make this setup run decent. Some folks add 2-3% acetone to their fuel to get a little better idle quality and easier starting.
Old 08-04-2012, 11:53 AM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

Well I picked up the slx the other day, with some two stroke weed eater oil and I'm gonna mix it with some gas pretty soon, but how do I do that thing you said to the bottom of the head, and we're can I get a hotter glow plug or which glow plug should I run? Thanks again man
Old 08-04-2012, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

I have denatured alcohol, two stroke weed eater oil, 95 octane, and acetone, how much oz or ml do I mix with each one? I'm not good with calculating haha and I don't get the percentages so if I could just get the filling amount that would be great. Thank you
Old 08-04-2012, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

ORIGINAL: Walcher361

I have denatured alcohol, two stroke weed eater oil, 95 octane, and acetone, how much oz or ml do I mix with each one? I'm not good with calculating haha and I don't get the percentages so if I could just get the filling amount that would be great. Thank you
Glow engines do not run on gasoline. Glow fuel for an RC car consists of Methanol, Oil (Klotz synthetic or Castor or a blend of the two), and nitromethane. In your case, you would use SLX kleanstrip denatured alcohol, a little acetone, and oil. Weed eater oil WILL NOT WORK. It does not mix with alcohol!

I would use 12% oil, 2% acetone, and 86% denatured alcohol. Turn your percentage into a decimal, so 12% would be .12. 2% would be .02. To make a gallon, multiply your percentage (.12 for example) by 128 (fluid ounces in a gallon). This give you the number of ounces of oil. Do the same for the acetone and alcohol. Together, the three numbers you get should add up to 128.

12% (.12) x 128 = 15.36oz oil
2% (.02) x 128 = 2.56oz acetone
86% (.86) x 128 = 110.08oz denatured alcohol

15.36 + 2.56 + 110.08 = 128.

The head shim is a gasket between the cylinder head (the big colored finned heatsink on the very top of the engine. Remove the 4 or 5 screws that hold it on, and on the bottom of the head (bottom of where the glow plug screws in) there should be a copper or aluminum gasket you remove. Put the cylinder head back on, and tighten the screws in a criss-cross pattern.

I use McCoy glow plugs in my cars and airplane engines. MC59 is a hot plug, and I believe the MC55 plugs are hotter. Google McCoy MC59 or MC55 and you'll find online stores that sell them if you dont have a hobby shop nearby. Otherwise you can use 4-stroke glow plugs like the OS F and McCoy MC4C. These are longer reach hot plugs but may require an extra glow plug washer so the piston doesnt hit the bottom of the plug.

What car and engine do you have?
Old 08-04-2012, 08:04 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

Alright that makes a whole lot of sense haha thanks a bunch dude, and what brand of oil would be best you think? And could I use dirt bike oil or is that to thick?
Old 08-04-2012, 10:12 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

And I have the volcano s30
Old 08-04-2012, 10:43 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol


ORIGINAL: Walcher361

Alright that makes a whole lot of sense haha thanks a bunch dude, and what brand of oil would be best you think? And could I use dirt bike oil or is that to thick?
You need oil that will mix with methanol. If you have a small plastic dixie cup or something, put a little denatured alcohol in the cup and add some of your oil to it and stir it up with a popsicle stick or something disposable. If it is miscible (will mix into) with methanol, it will mix in right away. If it isnt, it will look like you put oil in water. Most 2-stroke oils for gasoline engines will not mix with methanol. Klotz makes oils for snowmobiles, dirt bikes, weed wackers, etc. They have 2 kinds of oil that will mix with gasoline and methanol. Klotz techniplate and super techniplate. I believe the super techniplate is a blend of castor oil and synthetic oil. This is the oil I would recommend you use. It costs about $40 a gallon plus shipping. One gallon will make a LOT of fuel - probably 8-9 gallons depending on how accurately you measure it.

Keep in mind, this makeshift homebrew fuel I've outlined for you will cause your engine to lose 20-40% of its capable power due to not having nitromethane in the fuel. The engine should run on it, but it is not going to perform as well. The acetone does not replace the qualities of nitromethane in terms of adding power and making the needle have a broad "sweet spot". It will require some trial and error getting it tuned just right.
Old 08-05-2012, 01:52 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

Klotz Benol also mixes with alcohol, it's what I use when I want to bring oil % up in my nitro fuels.
http://www.klotzlube.com/proddetail....od=BC-175_Pint
Old 08-05-2012, 02:07 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol


ORIGINAL: SLAYERDUDE

Klotz Benol also mixes with alcohol, it's what I use when I want to bring oil % up in my nitro fuels.
http://www.klotzlube.com/proddetail....od=BC-175_Pint
That's straight castor oil, which does work plenty well but makes a huge mess. I was running 12% castor in my fuel for awhile but found the engines pick up a few hundred rpm running 50/50 synthetic/castor blend. BUT straight castor is half the cost of klotz. I order my oil from SIG Manufacturing as their prices are far better than directly from Klotz.
Old 08-05-2012, 05:30 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol


ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r


ORIGINAL: SLAYERDUDE

Klotz Benol also mixes with alcohol, it's what I use when I want to bring oil % up in my nitro fuels.
http://www.klotzlube.com/proddetail....od=BC-175_Pint
That's straight castor oil, which does work plenty well but makes a huge mess. I was running 12% castor in my fuel for awhile but found the engines pick up a few hundred rpm running 50/50 synthetic/castor blend. BUT straight castor is half the cost of klotz. I order my oil from SIG Manufacturing as their prices are far better than directly from Klotz.
Your sig is a LIE, sir![X(]
Old 08-05-2012, 06:06 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol


ORIGINAL: SLAYERDUDE


ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r


ORIGINAL: SLAYERDUDE

Klotz Benol also mixes with alcohol, it's what I use when I want to bring oil % up in my nitro fuels.
http://www.klotzlube.com/proddetail....od=BC-175_Pint
That's straight castor oil, which does work plenty well but makes a huge mess. I was running 12% castor in my fuel for awhile but found the engines pick up a few hundred rpm running 50/50 synthetic/castor blend. BUT straight castor is half the cost of klotz. I order my oil from SIG Manufacturing as their prices are far better than directly from Klotz.
Your sig is a LIE, sir![X(]
LoL. You're the first person to comment on that. My car engines are the only exception to that rule. My airplane engines get a full castor diet; several either have bushed crankshafts or have cast iron pistons and need lots of castor.

I guess car engines get "fake" glow fuel
Old 08-05-2012, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol

Lol, I had to say it.
Old 08-06-2012, 07:46 AM
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Default RE: Substuting Methanol for Denatured Alcohol


ORIGINAL: SLAYERDUDE

Lol, I had to say it.
Someone had to.. [8D]

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