How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

I thought an eight port engine couldn't be better than like a top of the line Novarossi or a OS V Spec. I always thought top engines are starter box started. I knew it would be fast though. Someone at a track was helping me with tuning and I ask what a port is and then I said my engine has 8 ports. He was surprised and I told him it was $130 dollars. I also said it was bought new.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

Any engine can be started with a starter box. Engines are priced by quality, not ports or size. You could get a .12 engine for the same price as a .28, but the .12 is probably built better, more reliable, easier to tune etc. Although that is not always the case, most of the time it is. Sometimes you're just buying a name.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

Exactly, price really comes down to build quality, R&D, materials used and just plain quality.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

to me, i doesn't matter what engine is better.
they all can be great engines if you take good care of what you have.
there are always modding guys out there to bring the life out of even the weakest of engines.

130$ is a good price for what you got.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

With engines, label, brand, image, etc.. still plays a big role. I race Mach 427's (also 130 bucks or so..), that are every bit the engine an OS VSPEC for ex. is, (yes, including run-time...), but I think with engines, people hold on to this dumb idea that you just have to pay more for a "good" engine.. With Machs and Go's and Alphas and some of the others out there though, it's just no longer true... OK, if you want to race semi-pro buggy and get ten minutes to a tank or whatever to keep up with Ryan Cavalieri, then sure get an OS Speed.. But %97 of ALL RCers are club racers, bashers, etc.., so that kind of thing is NOT important. Even if %97 of the people who buy OS Speeds and the like think it is....

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

Only the SH or Vertex engines and other copies have to be the worst out there. Havent seen any other engine perform so crappily! and fail within 2 weeks.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

Bunk.. SH makes LRP, Nosram, Losi, Dynamite, Mach and possibly other engines.. Al SH.. All good.. In the cases of the Mach 427 and LRP Spec 3, I would say more than good - excellent...(especially for the price..)

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

I dont agree at all...not even close !

we run with several guys who use SH engines..the Losi 454 RTR and a few Mach 427's and XTM 24/7 pro's and they all tune terrible compared to the race engines....Very few of the SH engines have insulated carbs....So they high idle like crazy off the jumps, they dont hold a stable tune and their performance is really lacking compared to the race engines.... Saying a Mach is every bit as good as a V-Spec is pretty out to lunch as far as I am concerned....sorry to say that bro but your comments aren't even close to realistic............ SH make low level engines that are easy to get running, but they don't hold a candle to a real race engine out on the track..........My biggest complaint with SH is how poorly they tune in a real race condition..side by side t the race engines they are horrible , no two ways about it.....I am a expert engine tuner, been tinkering with nitro since about 1985 and I can assure you a SH isn't even near being the best tuning engine there is, in fact in my opinion they re one of the worst....Any engine lacking a insulated carb is going to suffer from heat soak and vapor lock.....When the racing action gets going these carbs tend to overheat, causing the tune to start getting leaner and leaner, the only way to counteract this is to run the needles excessivly fat...which in turns kills the performance...then because of the excessively rich tune you need to crank the idle gap to compensate, which in turns makes the engine want to "run on"every time you let off the trigger... Then due to the rich tune the dam things sound like a 4 stroke down the back straight.... The SH will hold a good tune for about 3 minutes, then once that carb heat soaks its game over !

find me any SH that can tune like this Jammin JPX.... idle perfect, idle down perfect and scream its balls off down the straight...sorry but it aint happening , a SH is incapable of tuning like this, their carbs are not good enough !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=569nF90fUSQ

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

BS.. Your spreading this crazy notion that SH engines are somehow untuneable is flat-out misinformation. Their ease-of-tuning is precisely WHY they're so popular.

AND ESPECIALLY THEIR PRICE.

We're talking $130 . Not doulbe that for a Jammin or whatever else..

And I'm not trying to sell anything either..

I've raced them myself - have several so far. And they hold their tune like clockwork ha ha... All this "insulated carb" stuff is far-out bunk.. What about ALL the sticking and otherwise problematic Picco carbs? What about Novarossi Toro Neros with flame-out problems or dying after two gallons? I have heard of some issues with the new Losi 454 carb - but I've never run or even seen one of those yet - just LRP, Mach, and Sportwerks so far.. And the incredible ease of tuning is one of the great things about the Mach when it comes to racing. And the performance is right up there.. Not making it up - based on experience.. And btw, I've seen more VSPEC's DIE under race conditions than anything else... I've tried my high end crazy expensive Italian engine - and it sucked!! Had to throw the Mach back in to finish the race - and there wasn't even less power!! Just easier to tune - and cost a third of that dumb Orion 24!!

Had my dad over this summer and took my LST2 with a nearly three-year, ten-gallon-ish old LRP Spec 3 out, and had him laughing out loud at how crazy powerful the truck was - out of control wheelies, high end screaming passes, etc...

Sorry, NO engine is worth more than 200 bucks IMO in a hobby so utterly based on throwing away money as this one. Now, that's just IMO. If others want to believe that a shirt with a Polo label makes them look better, let'em..

I never said btw that SH engines are the best in the world. Just that, given their user-friendliness, power, and especially price, that they are awesome engines, perfectly suitable to the vast majority of people involved in this hobby.. - the vast majority of whom will be out of the hobby within two years, having sold all their high end gear for peanuts anyway....



ps A little note of clarification - If I had a decent track nearby, and still had my truggy, I'd get one of Supertib's modded engines. I believe all the hype - just so it's clear. Crazy, bonkers power, for a good price. Better than an SH? Of course... That wasn't what I was saying.. My point was only that SH engines are very good for what they are - and for the money. And frankly, this misinformation about SH carbs is just that - misinformation(jury out on the Losi carbs..) Even budbud from the Savage forums - an enthusiastic Supertib engine fan, will admit that the LRP 30 is a good alternative to the Picco 28 because of its user-friendliness...

Spending $150 MORE on an engine is not gonna make that big a difference for the majority of racers. Unlike, say, knowing how to set up their suspension, diffs, etc.., not to mention just good driving... Whatever the case, with new companies like Go and Alpha Plus offering up good, powerful, cheap racing engines to rival the likes of Novarossi, RB, and co.. - the playing field has already pretty much changed..

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

As far as heat soak yeah, it is possible ......If you run the engine too lean for it to keep up with the cooling. I run OS 18, Traxxas 2.5 (.15) , Hobao (hyper .12) and even a 1971 Veco .19 with a dykes ring and none have ever given me Vapor loc trouble. And they perform very well.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

I see it all the time at the track with the Losi RTR engines... 2 times a week, every week like Clockwork......... Since the Losi RTR 8B and 8T are soo popular we have had a huge amount of experience with SH built RTR engine....... Flat out they tune horrible next to the race engines...high temps, high idle, poor performance, and terrible fuel mileage........ They do run tho, and even a novice can manage to get them running enough to push the vehicle and not stall out, but after that they are not worth the metal they were cast in.... Every single person who started with the RTR Losi and upgraded the engine couldn't believe how much easier to tune and how much more stable a race engine was......The guys who upgraded went to a OFNA JL 21 $170.00 , JPX .21 $229.00 and a Werk's B5 $200.00...... all 3 of these engine are easier to tune, perform better and get much better runtimes .......Now we aren't bashing here, we are racing..... Yes a Sh does run, and for a sport engine they do alright, next to most RTR engines they are quite good...but next to a quality race engine they are terrible.......Now in a rookies hands a SH may be the better bet, but once past the rookie stage a Sh is only going to hold you back.....if you think a SH is easy to tune, try a JPX 21 or a Werk's b5...Now of course with the race engines you can't go silly nilly and run any old pipe and plug, but if you run the matching pipes and plugs they tune stupid easy.... A OS V-Spec even tunes easier, and holds its tune amazingly well.......Truthfully its a nigh and day difference from a SH.... I can get video of the RTR Losi engines on the track next to the race engines and you guys can see for yourself how bad they look next to the race mills....the difference isn't small, its very noticeable

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

I didnt know SH makes Machs, Dynamites and LRPs, ohh well.
What I meant is that the Vertex engines are definitely crap, not in tuning, all over.
Not sure on SH engines, but I would say the RTRs are good for bashing, but not racing as someone has said (Supertib maybe?)
I wouldnt get an engine like that IN MY LIFE, not because of the name, but because I want a brand name I know is reliable and I know can perform, just like the Picco JLR. I got it because it was cheap, BUT because everyone I asked said it was a monster and was reliable and easy to tune. All of it was true, but I think I made a nasty mistake somewhere which has basically ruined it, and I want to try out a different engine this time, actually try out Nova engines. I just find that engines that have a brand name behind them and have been around for a long time now are way better than those like SH or Vertex. RTRs are just there to get it moving, not gunning it all over the place and expectin it to hold its tune and stay within temps.
Otherwise they are good for street running and the sort.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

Well without spiralling all off to racing vs. bashing, etc.., the point still is - an SH engine can be very good, can hold a tune all day, is cheap, has good power, is not terribly pipe and plug picky(seen the prices of tuned pipes, which might not be so great with your next engine, leading to.... yup, needing another tuned pipe?.. With the LRP's and Machs, I find the Losi RTR pipes are ideal - for power AND, in the case of racing the Mach, runtime..), and is easy as hell and reliable to tune.

If they were the PIA you're making them out to be I wouldn't run them, period. I'm done with serious racing for now(serious waste of time and money where I live..), but still have a SW 26 in my buggy for messing around at the track - and yes it shreds.. Runtime is not great in the buggy(though ten minutes in the trug is easy..), but hey who cares, I'm just having fun...

SH makes good, reliable, easy-to-tune, powerful engines for the money(at least the 26's and 28's - and apparently the 30 too - haven't broken mine in yet..) More for bashing than racing yes, of course..(though a Mach is still a totally underrated engine). And an expensive fancy name won't win you a race when it comes to RC engines, just because you paid more and it has a fancy Italian name.. Those were my points.



ps Started breaking in a Dynamite Big Red in my LST2 yesterday. I paid I think $115 or so from amain with some discount codes. Costs $130 straight up from www.overdriverc.com ..

This is the third tank, with pretty much factory settings(tune is not ideal, but temp was right on for heat cycling..) no WOTand yes, the stupid faulty OWB in the 2-speed is causing me problems.. But hey, even if the engine explodes and dies as a result..., screw it, the BR only cost 115 bucks... My LRP Spec 3 cost me not too much more, is now 2 1/2 years old with I don't even know how many gallons on it, and runs GREAT... As a matter of fact, my three Machs and one of my SW 26's still run flawlessly, one Mach with 8+ gallons. Only one SW 26 crapped out on me.. AND, with all these cheapo engines, I've never had to change a rod or bearing or anything!!.. Run ten stress-free gallons through it, then throw it away and buy another one.. Should be the motto of SH engines.. I can have two Machs or Big Reds or whatever for the price of one average-priced race engine with its expensive tuned pipe, special plugs, etc...

http://s685.photobucket.com/albums/v...t=MOV02799.mp4

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

Wicked stuff, I can only say for the Vertex 16 and 18 engines, as they are the only ones I had before I sold that car. The first ran quite nicely in the beginning, broke it in on rich settings and all, and after that I started to lean it out. After a few days, I noticed that it would pull the lean bog on me for no reason at that time, and I couldnt richen it any more yet it still had lean bogs. I cleaned out everything including the carb, checked the lines and tank, found nothing. Tried again and it still leaned out on me until I touched the engine and noticed that the engine was loose on one side. After I took it off the chassis, the mounting ear FELL OFF! So that was why it leaned out on me and had oil and fuel all over the place. So I replaced that under warranty for the 18 size. When I fired it up, it sounded really mean compared to the 16, and had heaps of power all over. I took even more time to break it in and went easy on the throttle most of the time. After about a week or so, it started doing the lean bog again like the previous engine. So I quickly took it out of the car and checked the engine. I couldnt see anything from the out side apart from what looked like a hairline crack. So I undid the backplate and surprise-surprise, hairline cracks all over the inside of the case - about 5 in total. I didnt want to waste my time with these so I told the people to send me a better engine that is reliable at least as well as replacing crap that normally should last like the chassis (mounting holes "wore" away and I couldnt attatch the engine any more) But "mysteriously" it got lost in the mail, so I sold the rest.

Long story short - sorta - dont get a HSP, they are not even worth the... well, anything. Got a 4-tec after that and I was happy apart from some interference. Now I have the RRR and I will never go back, for now.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

People who think the SH(LRP or whatever u want to call them) engines can't run with or hold a tune like the Piccos or Nova's dont know HOW to get the most out of em. I can tell you one thing with the LRP .28 engine. The carb is too big for it. 9mm slide on a .28? Thats on the large side. Swap in say an X spec LRP carb like what you find on the .21 or .30 engine, throw on the 7 or 7.5mm bore insert and see just how much power was left on the table. And the tuning will be very precise and expect to significantly cut down on gas consumption while gaining power. Expect an engine to make power on par with some of the more expensive grinds for half price.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

you get what you pay for....sure a cheaper motor will run good....but the performace and quality is undeniable in a true race motor.....if your not willing for fork over bucks for the most important part of your r/c, your in the wrong hobby.

im not a racer, im a basher only....i like my motor to start, ilde, run and tune as its supposed to...perfect, with wicked fast throttle response and high rpm's.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

Well said :)

I never said that SH engines or the like are bad in all aspects, just that they are just your everyday get-your-car/truck-running type of engines, they just dont compare to a purpose-made engine like RB's and Picco's and whatnot. You dont have to fork out a wad of cash and have a great engine, just as long as it wasnt a mass-produced engine sold under different names and badges, it will perform better because it had been designed to be used in competition-like environments where the limits are pushed to the edge.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

I thoroughly disagree. RB's and Novarossis are NOT that much better than Go's or Alphas or the cheaper Werks engines and the like.

It's a name, a Polo label on a shirt - and not much more. Maybe a tiny bit more, but not proportional to the extra cost..

This thread got off topic a bit, from buggy/track engines to MT bashing engines. For bashing an MT an SH-based 28 is as sensible as it gets. They run just fine, make good power, are reliable and consistent, and all for a value-for-money that is unbeatable in RC.

For racing, yeah, a more "race engine" kind of engine is better.. Not for me though TBH.. The reliability of the Mach 427 in my truggy let me concentrate on and deal with all the other factors you have to deal with when racing - suspension, electronics, linkages, tires, etc... AND while getting ten-minute run times and for the most part keeping up with everything else.. The difference in tires is probably bigger than the difference in engine power from say a cheap SH-based engine to something that costs twice as much.. And as most racers know, more power does not necessarily mean faster laps - more like, more spinning tires...

So in conclusion, money most definitely does NOT buy faster run times or more success at the track - not since the market has changed so that Go's, Alphas, and co are so widespread. And for bashing, I'll take out my LST2 with LRP 28 (and soon to be 30) and hang with ANYBODY.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

my O.S. .28xz powered revo says otherwise.....:)

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

I finally killed my modded os28 yesterday after aprox 8 gals. I will be definately getting another one but until then have to put the sts 30 back in.
I do agree with HerrSavages comments re the extra cost of some of the top mills arent justified.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

I've seen your vids, and yes that Revo is awesome.. But for the price I have two LST2's and probably then some.., and my basher is at least as tough as your Revo, and with the LRP 30 won't be a slouch either..

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

well..the stock 3.3 aint no slouch either....in fact my little .18 revo would be faster then a lst .30

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

Well it's 1/10 and made almost entirely of plastic.. So yes, in a straight line on pavement, you might come out a few feet ahead.. Hit a bump and break something though and you won't be very fast at all.. :D

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

Alot of this has to do with engine gearing and rotational mass........not necessarily the motor itself.

RE: How can the Hyper 21 be only $130?
 

well i quess you dont get it....ill take my plastic revo and leave this thread, all 9.5lbs and 65mph of it...