ml3456

Correct Oil Company Facts

Its now BP/Amoco/Arco, no Phillips. And most of the companies being stated as 0 import by form US distributors who bought foreign crude. We just like to drive or trucks and suv gas guzzlers, and need more oil than we have.

Its good see Carden making 30% kits again. I bought a AW 29% edge and am not really thrilled with it. If the Carden was available, I would have built it. I like to build. Relieves stress in the snowy winter.

ML

Kevgofly

My Feedback: (2)

Ken,
Keep us posted on the Cuda, I'm thinking of building one myself.

CBK,
I hope your experience was an isolated incident and like you said, Denis was having a bad day. I have been building Cardens for several years now and never experienced anything short of exemplary customer service. They have always treated me as if they'd known me all their life, even the first time I ever called them.

I have built and owned a lot of planes. My Cardens have been far and above my favorites to build and fly. I have a lot of pride in them. Someone said here earlier they bring out the craftsman in you, that's very well put. Building is therapy to me. When I have built other kits I get stressed over the fit, over all look, or any other of a dozen things. I never feel that way when I build Cardens. It's always rewarding. So, I'll pay the money, it's actually reasonable if you start truly breaking it down. Everyone should just remember comparing Carden, Comp ARf, Extreme flight.... is like apples and oranges. They each fill a different niche. What ever gets you in the air and puts a smile on your face, that's how you should go.

Kev

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

I am joining in your laughter... it actaully is pretty humorous! I betcha the orginal poster left this thread long ago!!

DP

Shogun

My Feedback: (2)

Where did you get the impression that just because someone is in business and your the public that they have an obligation to bend over backwards for you?

Your problems started when you bought a box of wood with no plans. That problem should have been resolved by getting the missing plans from the previous owner of the kit, it was his responsibility to supply them to you. A kit without plans isn't a kit, it's abox of wood.

I do know that before Dennis sells ANYONE a kit that he has no history with he will grill you about your modelling history and building skills. He learned the hard way that it's more trouble to sell to someone that isn't capable or up to the task of building one of his kits than it's worth and would rather not sell you a kit if you give him the impression that your goint o have a problem and start bad mouthing him and his company. Oh and before anyone says that I don't know what I'm talking about, I have met Dennis face to face and gotten the whole story from him concerning his policies about who he sells to and why some get refused a sale. If he gets the impression that you can't hack it he will just tells you to go buy an used Carden or an ARF, but always with respect. Dennis has to be one of the nicest guys in RC I have met to date.

capngriz

My Feedback: (7)

I hope I never have to deal with a guy who has a business philosophy like this:

"Where did you get the impression that just because someone is in business and your the public that they have an obligation to bend over backwards for you?"

If Dennis, or any other manufacturer feels this way or has such a vision (actually lack of), then life will be short. I assume, expect and hope that Carden does not represent the views of this this RCU member's approach to standard business practices.

Shogun

My Feedback: (2)

When I made that statement I should have prefaced it to say "before the sale", after the sale would be a different situation altogether IMO. In the case of the situation my post was aimed at Carden did not sell the kit to the owner and therefore had no control over the contents or their condition when the owner received the boxes.

I think the rest of my post is self explanatory and as far as Dennis is concerned his business is doing just fine, in fact he can't keep up with the orders so obviously your theory doesn't apply in this situation.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Scott,

Not being PC, I agree wholeheartedly with your entire original post. When I was in business, which was a service business, there were people and companies that I flat out refused to accomodate at any price. Just because I was in business for myself did not mean that I had to sacrifice my personal and business ethics to meet those of individuals with a lack of such qualities. Same goes for retail. Anyone ever recall seeing the sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"?

And for the SA that will have to snidely ask why I'm no longer in business? I got fed up with dealing with the various governments and asinine employees. Along with only being able to clear about 5% profit margin after expenses with my capital investment.

Shogun

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks Pat,
I think so much of this is just more of the same old attitude that seems to pervade more and more of the american public these days, IOW "I want it NOW, I want it cheap and I want it to be perfect and .....oh I want whoever I purchased it from to walk on water for me and eat excrement on my orders.

It's unrealistic thinking that is going to be our ultimate downfall.

capngriz

My Feedback: (7)

I don't hink it's that difficult to keep a one man show busy either.

Carden is a great plane and will always have a dedicated following. Maybe I will have one day as well - that is, if I ever develop the patience to deal with one of their kits (or find the right deal on a used).

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Hmmm, sounds like the kit version of the "Soup Nazi".
No soup for you.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

[8D]

Flyin Woodbutcher

My Feedback: (3)

I think the thread has jumped the track, what you think?

Is the kit that good and worth the price? Can anyone compare it to other kits ?

I can compare it to a G+L Hobbies Ultimate 10-300. Mama said if you dont have something nice to say dont say anything!

How about a Top Flight 1/5 Mustang, talk about a box of wood , you can build and fly a Carden before you can frame the fus. on this.

The Great Plane kits 20 years back where nice , with lite balsa. Now you need a comb for the hairy balsa. Ok I think the kit is worth the price Kent

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

The Carden Cuda is a sport 3D, non-scale plane 80x82".
How does it fly compared to let's say a Chip Hyde Vision 3D, a sport non-scale 85x82"?
Both planes are designed for 50cc gasser and the same general purpose.
The only knock on the CH is that is an ARF and $500, so it must be $100 less good than the Carden...

Shogun

My Feedback: (2)

Also bear in mind that if you crash the CH you'll be buying another if you liked the plane. At least with the Carden you can repair it and put it back in the air, that's the most important attribute of a kit IMO, repairability.

bckyrdbshr

My Feedback: (35)

First off I didn't ask Dennis to bend over backwards for me... I asked for a set of plans that I would have purchased. I wasn't expecting anything for free. to me thats not to much to ask....

As far as the plane goes it was not a kit... It was a built airplane that had damage to it and I needed the plans to fix it. I knew the guy didn't have the plans. But was told I could buy a set from Dennis...

As far as my building skill goes its none of his business...

As far as i'm concerned Dennis is the only one at fault here and should have made an effort to help and he didn't all he done was wasted my time and called me a liar..

CAPtain232

My Feedback: (40)

Blake, I care not to comment on most of your statements, but will to this one.....

Dennis doesn't want to sell a kit to someone that might be in way over his head for something like a CARDEN kit.... This is why he asks so many questions. He is truly doing his potential customers a service by inquiring about such things... Why sell someone a kit that they can't build and then turn around and have to sell it for less than they paid or become too frustrated and bad mouth the kit.

EJB

Quote:

"Also bear in mind that if you crash the CH you'll be buying another if you liked the plane. At least with the Carden you can repair it and put it back in the air, that's the most important attribute of a kit IMO, repairability."

The simple fact is that a "built-up" ARF is just as easily repaired as any Carden plane.
The notion that "ARF's can not be repaired is fantasy.

Ken Bryant

My Feedback: (10)

<-----Original poster

Boy did I stir up a hornets nest. I had to go away on a family emergency and now that I'm back I see this. Funny

Truth is I haven’t seen much here that shows or explains why the Carden is better than any other plane. The way I see it allot is dependent on the builder more than the kit. Any bozo can glue sticks together but a craftsman can make them fly straight.

While I am approaching craftsman level I worry that the expense of this KIT will be tarnished by my lack of skill and or equipment.

Oh, for you folks that are blowing the bugle and chiming in on the American dream, give it a rest. That has nothing to do with why I started this thread. I am as American as apple pie an I really hate it when people use that excuse to get sales in the USA. IF we suck we suck, the idea is suck less! Oh, and shoot the lawyers, they are the reason we are where we are at. :P HAHAHA

One thing I am discouraged at is that on the Carden site there is a price disparity. Yet when I brought this to the owner’s attention he made no attempt at fixing it. He simply said, Oh that was the old price the new price is higher. Sorry, that turns me off. I'm sure the owner is a great guy but hey fix the pricing issues on your website.
Look here to see what I am talking about. http://www.iflyrc.com/cuda.htm I know allot of companies that if they miss mark a price they will suck it up and sell at that price. This isn't one of them. This is one guy who makes no attempt at fixing it. Even today there is no attempt.

Lord knows I will probably hear all of you Carden fans telling me where to get off. I'm sorry this is NOT a personal attack on anyone. These are just my observations, the observations of a potential customer who has no idea why this thing is supposed to be what it's worth when I find so little care being taken in the pricing. I tend to start reading between the lines. I see attention to detail as something of a low priority. So I ask. This is my explanation for starting this thread. Please except it at its face value and don't read between the lines.
HAHAHAHAHA

Shogun

My Feedback: (2)

I have no idea what your skill level or experience level is so please don't take this as a personal attack. BUT, anyone that has attempted to repair an ARF, particularly one that is badly damaged, knows that replacing parts that are smashed to bits is next to impossible without a pattern to manufacture a new part from. Plans are those patterns that kits provide. Sometimes the plans do not include all of the critical shapes necessary but anyone that has built a kit knows to trace out the parts that are not shown on the plans.

You simply can't do that with an ARF, especially these new breed of VERY lightly built ARF's that everyone raves so much about these days. The wood in these things is very thin and virtually explodes and shatters on impact, leaving nothing to manufacture a new part from.

I dare say I have repaired a few ARF's and after the ordeal I always felt I could have built a kit in less time and probably gotten better final results as well.

Don't get me wrong, ARF's have their place in RC and some are truly amazing but they will never be as easily repaired as a kit in my opinion and experience.

While this may not seem to be aimed at Kens original post it's actually one of the reasons that Cardens are so good, they are kits and as such retain all of the attributes that make kits so special.....for people that like to build kits.

And no ken it's not the lawyers, although they do play a large part in our present day societies ills....

Third world labor is what really has us over a barrel.

Are Cardens worth it? They are if you know what you want and if you enjoy the building side of the hobby. Are their prices justified, that depends...do you want to say you own a Carden, that alone carries a certain mystique for most of us. Do you want an airplane that not everybody has? Do you want to fly something you built yourself and know you can repair if you have to? Do you want an airplane that commands a pretty high price in the event you decide to sell it later? After all, why does a Rolls Royce cost so much when you can buy a Chevy? Why would anyone want to buy a Mercedes when thy can have a Nissan?

Yeah it's a lot of money and when your used to buying ARF's it's easy to start comparing Cardens kits with ARF's but I think, just like everything else in life, you get what you pay for. Is it worth it? I beleive it is IF you feel it is.

EJB

Quote:
"I have no idea what your skill level or experience level is so please don't take this as a personal attack. BUT, anyone that has attempted to repair an ARF, particularly one that is badly damaged, knows that replacing parts that are smashed to bits is next to impossible without a pattern to manufacture a new part from. Plans are those patterns that kits provide..."

My level & experience is as good as anybody on this board & yes, that includes the "pros".


Not all kits provide plans.The last Aero-Works kit I built did not have a set of full size plans.Neither did the CA(Columbo Anderson)kit.

The fact is any competent "builder" can repair a badly damaged kit or ARF without the need for plans.Been there,done that.There is a point that a badly damaged plane (kit or Arf) is not worth the time & effort & you simply get a new plane,or a new set of wings,new fuse,etc.

Actually with an ARF it's less time consuming & easier to buy the new "part",be it a fuse,stab wing,etc.,than fixing or repairing for those that don't have the skill or time to repair the plane.

Shogun

My Feedback: (2)

I agree completely with your statements but don't forget, plans or no plans you still have the parts to trace off and thus a kit gives you all the shapes necessary to fix it when that day eventually arrives.

GuyIncognito

Where is all the rest of your all american plane made? Hardware etc. LOL

Silvanskii

My Feedback: (17)

Well I finally got the courage to read this thread...

I also had to laugh as the guy's original question was pretty much left completely unanswered other than the apparent fact that the Carden kit is worth the money BECAUSE it's a Carden kit. Kind of like asking should I cut my head off so I don't need to cut my hair anymore? You should cut your head off BECAUSE you have hair (Halloween humor there).

Here's another point, when people start threads about Comp-Arf, Columbo, Great Planes, or whatever, they never degrade to name calling and other various (and implied) personal attacks. It always seem to be Carden and 3W/DA threads that draw the most "attention". They also are most prone to completely getting off-track and usually people bring up completely illogical points (ie. arfs can't be repaired??? It's a friggin' plane! Of course it can be repaired, and I've repaired kits and arfs myself. Ask my friend darrinc about his "WORLD'S MOST EXPENSIVE ELEVATOR" on his Hangar 9 Cap ).

Just an interesting phenomena that is obvious to anyone that has been active in any RC forum over the last 5 years.

Am I going to badmouth Carden? Nope, got their 35% 330 and love it. Personally, I love the outline and the typical Carden heaviness allows me to hold momentum more akin to a full size, which I like when doing tumbles. Which I also don't like because of the higher throttle setting while hucking which heats up the engine more (aww crap, I said a naughty word [X(]). I was fortunate enough to have mine professionally built and covered because I don't have the time (especially this year!) to devote to that major undertaking. Although someday it would be quite fun.

Man, I just realized. I'm going to have a Carden and a Comp-Arf in the same building. Guess I should get extra insurance in case a fight breaks out. OOOOHHH I know! I can make a blackhole if I put an American flag on my Comp-Arf and end all this madness!

cbk07

My Feedback: (64)

Silvanskii, don't worry. I think your planes will get along just fine. I just hope you don't have a 3W and a DA in the same house!!! Craig

jclittle

My Feedback: (99)

I fly a Comp ARF 2.6 Extra and a professionally built 35% Carden Cap every weekend, and will p/u a new 40% professionally built Carden later this week . I would buy another Comp ARF some day as well. The Comp and Carden fly great and I can't say one is more fun than the other. Fun is what this is about right? But anyone that does not think you get what you pay for is kidding them self. The resale value of a Carden is hands down better then just about any other plane. Go buy what you like and enjoy it.