rolland

You can't give up now you are to far into it. You can run it as a single speed for break-in or until you get the right clutch bell. Finding a 13-23 tooth single speed 1/8 scale bell should be easy enough.
It is amazing how long it takes to break in that SH motor, some people at the track said the motor didn't start running right until the 6 or 7 tank (on the XLB that is almost 300cc's to a tank). With that much motor you probably aren't going to want second gear right away anyhow.


rolland

poor judgement

Thanks for the info re break in rolland, much appreciated mate.

Im pretty much settled on the c/b now, it will be 2 speed, but like u say... so i will probably lock 2nd out for breakin in - just in case

I will be fitting a larger tank too, gonna have to shuffle the electric n stuff about a bit, but ive seen a layout that will work for me. I want as much weight up front as possible, maybe even add some lead ballast to make it usable, still, a long way to go yet - the bank has just screwed up my account and debit card, which isnt helping... maybe not such a bad thing eh?

I wont give up on it, I just want to get the right bits first time around, its cost me way too much already.

Scouser

Are you going to shift the battery box onto the main chassis or is it to be the wheelie bar?

poor judgement

I might leave the box, but move the batt - will see what space i have left.

That box has saved me from loads of flips, but then again, having the batt in there isnt helping the fronts stay down...

rolland

Break that motor in right and it will scare you. That thing throws around an XLB like it isn't even there.
What clutch bell did you find, a part # or link would be great.
Last weekend was the first time I ran an actual CEN 2 speed bell and it is amazing how much wear happened in about 8 tanks. The RS4 bell that I was using worked ok but was just a pain to shim. What I don't get is CEN sells a 2 speed kit with steel threaded pinons for the RS4 but they don't have one available for their own products.
What I am going to try to do this weekend is to take my CEN bell around to the different hobbie shops in the area and see what fits. I will post my findings with part numbers.


rolland

poor judgement

im looking at using this pinion set and this c/b, but obviously with the other pilot shaft type nut. probably with a savage alloy 3 shoe clutch and flywheel from e bay as they are pretty cheap on there.

http://www.gmmodels.co.uk/acatalog/Ho_Bao_Spares.html

the pinion set part number is 18907 i believe, there is also a 12/16 set - 18908. i think those numbers are right... hopefully they will will work ok with my 43 and 39t spurs - ie, the front wheels might be on the ground once in a while...

let us know what u find out rolland, i wish i had more shops here i could wander round trying out stuff.

rolland

Here are the results of this weekends travels. I was primarily concerend with the m12 portion of the clutchbell and replacement bells.
Each one of the parts mentioned I have actually handled and tried, measured, and/or compared. I didn't find any steel pinions that will thread onto the stock bell sorry.
Some of these pinions are to large unless you want to go scary fast. The stock MT2 uses a 3 gear difference (13/16) and the Genesis uses a 4 gear difference(15/19).


These pinion gears will thread on to the m12 portion of the CEN 2 speed bell. Some are to thick and need to be modified or shimmed accordingly.
associated
LXBMC4 Associated Pinion Gear 20T Silver NTC3
LXBMC8 Associated Pinion Gear 21T Gray NTC3
LXBMC5 Associated Pinion Gear 22T Blue NTC3
LXBMC9 Associated Pinion Gear 23T Gold NTC3
LXBMC6 Associated Pinion Gear 24T Red NTC3
LXBMD0 Associated Pinion Gear 25T Green NTC3
LXBMC7 Associated Pinion Gear 26T Black NTC3
LXBMD1 Associated Pinion Gear 27T Purple NTC3
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...on&FVPROFIL=++


hpi
LXFVZ7 HPI Threaded Pinion Gear 15Tx12mm Nitro R40
LXFKG5 HPI Threaded 1st Gear 16Tx12mm R40
LXFVZ8 HPI Threaded Pinion Gear 17Tx12mm Nitro R40
LXFVZ9 HPI Threaded Pinion Gear 18Tx12mm Nitro R40
LXCLR8 HPI Threaded Pinion Gear 18Tx12mm 2-Speed Nitro 3
LXHBK3 HPI Threaded Pinion Gear 20Tx12mm
LXHBK4 HPI Threaded Pinion Gear 21Tx12mm
LXHBK5 HPI Threaded Pinion Gear 22Tx12mm
LXDHM0 HPI Aluminum Threaded Pinion Gear 17T Nitro 3
LXDHM2 HPI Aluminum Threaede Pinion Gear 19T Nitro 3
LXDHM3 HPI Aluminum Threaded Pinion Gear 21T Nitro 3
LXDHM5 HPI Aluminum Threaded Pinion Gear 23T Nitro 3
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...V=HPI&I=&G=&U=

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...PI&I=&G=&U=&P=

These clutch bells are the same size as CEN's
Associated
LXBMJ9 Associated Lightweight 2-Speed Clutch Bell NTC3
LXBMC3 Associated 2-Speed Clutch Bell NTC3
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0097P
Trinity and other manufactureres have an assortment of gears to fit these bells

Losi LST bells (no links sorry)

XTM
149810 MV3131 XTM Clutch Bell No Pinion - Mammoth/X-Terminator Upgrade
http://www.hobbypeople.net/part/14561504.asp
Pinons for these bells
149814 MV3141 XTM First Gear 14T for 2-speed - Mammoth/X-T
149815 MV3151 XTM First Gear 15T for 2-speed - Mammoth/X-T
149816 MV3161 XTM First Gear 16T for 2-speed - Mammoth/X-T
149819 MV3191 XTM Second Gear 19T for 2-speed - Mammoth/X-T
149820 MV3201 XTM Second Gear 20T for 2-speed - Mammoth/X-T
149821 MV3211 XTM Second Gear 21T for 2-speed - Mammoth/X-T
http://www.hobbypeople.net/part/14561504.asp
http://www.hobbypeople.net/part/14561503.asp
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/149815.asp
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/149820.asp
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/149816.asp
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/149821.asp

Ofna 1/8 scale (sorry no links)

HPI
LXM729 HPI Clutch Bell 13T/16T RS4
LXPU15 HPI Clutch Bell 11T/14T 2-Speed
LXM730 HPI Clutch Bell 13T/18T Nitro
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0097P
There is mod to make these work because they don't use standard bearings.

You will need part #'s

LXM721 HPI Pilot Shaft M5x27 Black
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXM721&P=7

LXM766 HPI Clutch Needle BB 5x8mm
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXM766&P=7

The old bearings out of your existing clutch bell

You choice of bells
LXM729 HPI Clutch Bell 13T/16T RS4
LXPU15 HPI Clutch Bell 11T/14T 2-Speed
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0097P

Diagram of how the clutch bell is assembled
http://www.hpiracing.com/graphics/in...I-72516-P1.jpg

Where the spacers are used use your clutch bell bearings instead.
If it is put on your motor as the diagram says the shaft might be to long for the CEN motor and it is to long for the O.S. motor. The shaft needs to shortened on the part where it threads on to the crank by approx. 1-1.5mm's. If you take your time when you shorten it, it will fit without needing any shimming. I am not recomending this mod for motors that are not using the stock CEN flywheel, because I have not tried it on any thing else. The reason I did this is because they are steel clutch bells in the gearing that I want and my LHS has plenty in stock.

I am sure there are a lot more but this is all I could find and I hope that this information is usefull.



rolland

poor judgement

holy mother of god, rolland!

werent there any more u could have tried?!?! thats a shedload of info there mate, much appreciated. i have been looking at all of the ones u mentioned there over the last few months, but wasnt sure that they were all m12 or not.

my cen is currently in rally mode [8D] so those taller ratios (21t+) are very interesting...

thanks for again for all that info, its certainly of some use here.

rolland

Sorry that was 8 stores in about a 100 mile radius in a day and a half and for some reason my wife and kids wanted to see me this weekend so I ran out of time.
From what I discovered the m12 portion is pretty much a standard 12mm metric thread that most of the manufacturers use. For steel pinions I would see if a local machinest and make some if a steel version of the one you want is not available.
This shop http://www.1320.4t.com/ makes really affordable custom transmission and spur gears for the X-Factor and Mammoth and pinions for the LST so they should be able to make some pinion gears in any tooth count for the XTM bells or any bell. They can probably make the spur gears as well.



rolland

poor judgement

it looks like custom made is the only way to get steel ones then... many thanks yet again for ur help rolland!

i have been speaking to a guy who already has the sh.28 in a funfactor, and he has been doing ok on the the stock plastic spurs and stock alloy pinions... thats with standard cen mt wheels too tho.

maybe ive just lost my touch with setting the gear mesh... naaahhh surely not, it was fine tonite for 8 tanks. just concerned that this could be a lot of worry for nothing after all this!!

i will give the local machinists a visit tho, see what they would charge - my brother is quite well in with some cnc guys apparently...

aj10803

i know this is out of the conversation. but is the car the same one on your homepage link? i think it is but is it?

rolland

No you haven't lost you touch on the gear mesh. When you think about it there is a lot more rotating mass with the mt tires and even more with maxx wheels and tires.
I really think custom steel ones shouldn't be that expensive. If you think they are to expensive for on or two sets contact all of the UK people on here and make a larger order, that should bring the price way down. Setting a machine up for one or two sets is a pain for a machinest but 10 or 12 sets is more worthwhile. The same would apply to spur gears.



rolland

poor judgement

yea - i know what u mean rolland, im a draftsman/design engineer by trade, so im fairly familiar with what the cnc guys have to do - nothing a crate of beer shouldnt be able to sort out!

im upgrading my pc at the mo, so dont hold ur breath on this engine installation, the weather here is ****e too, so not a lot of point yet...

aj - yes its the same chassis and .18 engine as in my signature.

rolland

How's this going? You haven't updated us in awhile.


rolland

poor judgement

been a bit busy... and rediscovered how much fun the rally setup is!! i gotta get some on road tyres for this thing and see what it will do.

but... mounts are on the way now, and i am trying to get some hold of some rather nice pinions to suit the gen spurs too.

also in the post is another set of hardened diff gears for my front diff, i toasted it on the beach - my own fault

i am also looking at my old chassis with the centre diff setup, now that i have a lot of spares to do something with. i have a set of mt arms spare and cvs and dogbones, diffs, clutch....oh and the .18.... and of course the rally arms. will see what else i can find to bolt onto it...

rolland

A center diff would stop alot of damage in the diff's and probably increase the lifespan of the diff cups and cvd/dogbones.
With a 13 tooth clutch bell, .18 motor and a center diff the rally would scream on the pavement with the right tires.


rolland

poor judgement

yea, i was thinkin of a tarmac screamer, as the escudo shell isnt impressed by off roading...

the spur is the single speed 47t, so i will run at least a 16t pinion in this setup, maybe a 18 or 20t... will see how it goes. as standard, the single speed ratios are 47t with a 16t pinion for the rally.

poor judgement

the 2 speed alloy hubs, with 38/42 spurs and steel pinion set are on e bay - item number 5985378301 for £30 at the mo

if anyone was looking for em that is.... just need a couple of genny spurs and a big block to go with it!!

or maybe a ff .26? 5986666926

rolland

I forgot about the size difference with rally tires. I have an oportunity to pick up a rally pretty cheap I just might do the same.
Thanks for the links but they won't ship to the states.

I wonder if the one way front diff would hold up if you were to use a center diff?
What center diff are you using?


rolland

poor judgement

for the centre diff i have a standard front or rear cen diff - the single speed spur locates in just the same way on the casing as the large diff gear would... if that makes sense...

as for cens one way diff - nah - i aint risking it for over £40 plus delivery!! ive heard of too many bad experiencess on those things.

poor judgement

still no engine mounts... should have been here this week... i hate broken promises - does my head in.

on a good note tho, i finally looked at my car (rally setup still) and noticed the front left cv had sheered a pin - the diff is fine! lol, why oh why didnt i look at it at the beginning of this week off work?!?! the brake had rusted up a bit too [X(] - lol, all clean and shiny again now!

gonna take the rally out some more while i wait for these bits, will keep trying to remember to take the cam and someone to hold it...

rolland

Are you running the center diff now? If you are how about some pics of it and a little how to.

I am really liking the center diff idea. I am not sure about the big block but the center diff is looking real good.

I have also been thinking about getting some arms made so I can use unmoddified t-maxx cvd's and regular t-maxx wheels. I would make them myself but I can' find any aluminum stock thick enough.


rolland

poor judgement

there are the pics from when i first looked at the centre diff arrangement [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2430760/anchors_2430760/mpage_1/key_centre%252Cdiff/anchor/tm.htm#2430760]here[/link] but i still need to sort the centre shaft - need to add a pin to the end i had to cut, other than that i think i have all the bits - its time thats the issue now, this bloody house is killing me... theres just the fact that the spur is a 47t, so i may have to go bigger than 20t on the pinion to have a realistic top speed, not a prob, i just remembered that bit.

re tmaxx shafts - how were u going to get them to work at the diff end? i didnt think they fitted the cen diff cups?

rolland

They don't fit the CEN cups you will have to make a new adapter to use the maxx cups. The maxx cups are held on like the ff047 center dogbone cups. I thought about turning down a gx12 to work but I don't think it will be long enough to properly secure the maxx cup. So I am just going to make the "adapter" out of a piece of stock about the same diameter.
In order for me to do your mod I will have to buy some CEN cvd's and then the rest of the maxx stuff. This way I might be able to cut down on some of the expense. I don't want to cut my only set of cvd's incase I decide to go back to the 2.2 wheels.
This idea might work for your mod. It will definetly save on the expense of cutting the CEN cvd's.

rolland

rolland

After looking at the pictures more closely I thought that I saw sway bars on your rally. I know that there is provisions for them on on the arms but didn't know they were made.
If they are tell us what parts you used please and if they are stock what is the part number.
Thanks

rolland