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New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

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New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Old 02-08-2007, 07:52 AM
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.46NitroAddict
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Default New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Hi fellow Interested Owners,

We all know about the fast wearing 1st gear Clutch Bell Pinion Gears on the CEN Genesis, Nemesis, & GST.

In the following post http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5292327 regarding the CEN GST, CEN Racing have recognised this problem & to their credit have stated,
...We are currently developing the hardend steel clutch bell gears...
to solve this problem.

I have started a poll on CEN Racings' Official forum to try & gauge support for this new, products' development.
Hopefully if we get enough votes on this, it may help speed up its release. Heaven knows enought of us complain about this. So here's your chance to do something about it, not just whine about it!

[link=http://cenracing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=343&sid=cf17d7657d45b7463fddfd1f4505bda2]CEN Racing Official Forum, New Products - [Poll] Hardened Steel Pinion Gears[/link]

Please take the time to vote, so we get these new gears, sooner rather than later.

Thanks for your help,

.46NitroAddict [>:]
Old 02-08-2007, 01:25 PM
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poor judgement
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Theres an Italian guy on Ebay already producing these, has been doing for a while now. I think his username is/was toto.

Maybe worth a look to see if he is still about?

I contacted him re some steel pinions for the FF, but there wasnt enough interest back then... bet a few people would have them now.
Old 02-08-2007, 01:53 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

???????????? Thanks for your reply,

I just did a worldwide ebay search for "toto", must be the wrong name! I couldn't find any matches.
Did he do Genesis / Nemesis / GST clutch bell pinion gears?

Anyway, thanks for your response,.......... but, I was trying to raise support for the CEN Racing factory produced item as promised by CEN Racing, in the original post.

.46NitroAddict [>:]
Old 02-18-2007, 05:17 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Hi Again Poor Judgement,

I did some major reading from past forums (a couple of years back) & found toto67.

I sent him & email, & he has posted the following response. [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5271610/anchors_5437435/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#]toto67 hardened steel 17/21T pinion gears[/link]

Hi Guys,

I actually produce 17&21T hardened steel gears for the Genesis.

If you are interested in them just mail me to:


totoluci@hotmail.com

Thanks

Ciao
PJ, thanks for the starting point that helped me find Ciao.
This might do till CEN releases theirs. Who knows Ciao's may even be better anyway!

Regards .46NitroAddict[>:]
Old 02-19-2007, 12:45 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

No worries.

I had a little search myself, but didnt come up with anything/got bored looking through all the posts...

Take a look [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4547814/mpage_2/key_hardness/tm.htm]here[/link] (scroll down a bit) for hardness readings for both the Gen spurs and early Gen pinions, might help for reference or ball park figures for comparison maybe... just a thought.

Im not so sure his name is Ciao though!
Old 02-21-2007, 04:22 AM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

I think you are right PJ.
I think Ciao stands for GoodBye in Italian.
Old 02-21-2007, 05:09 AM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Hi Guys,

That may well be the case, if so my bad!

I was only going on the reply he posted & the email he sent me. Both ended the same way.

Hi Guys,

I actually produce 17&21T hardened steel gears for the Genesis.

If you are interested in them just mail me to:

totoluci@hotmail.com

Thanks

Ciao
Anyway........., have you guys taken the time to vote in my poll? (as linked in post #1). I would appreciate it if you did!
That is if you haven't already done so.

Kind Regards, .46NitroAddict [>:]
Old 02-21-2007, 12:03 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

I would... but I dont have a Genesis... but I do have loads of hardened steel pinions!
Old 02-21-2007, 03:00 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Hi PJ,

Oh Well, Thanks anyway!

Regards, .46NitroAddict [>:]
Old 02-21-2007, 05:54 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Hey .46NitroAddict,

As most of you probably remember I posted two personal write-ups of the CEN Nemesis and GST awhile back. I failed to mention the obvious problem concerning the quickly wearing clutch bell pinion gears. I have not yet voted to support your cause but I will shortly. Here are some pictures for others to see just how worn out these gears will get after only a few tanks of gas. Hopefully CEN will address this problem soon.

21 tooth gear




25 tooth gear



If you would like to see these pictures in higher resolution, please follow the links below.

[link=http://web.njit.edu/~mr256/DSC01263.jpg]Picture 1[/link]
[link=http://web.njit.edu/~mr256/DSC01266.jpg]Picture 2[/link]
[link=http://web.njit.edu/~mr256/DSC01258.jpg]Picture 3[/link]
[link=http://web.njit.edu/~mr256/DSC01261.jpg]Picture 4[/link]

- LS7505
Old 02-21-2007, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

In fairness to CEN, I heard that it was just the earlier versions that had the softer pinions, later models having hardened ones.

If it was still a problem within a couple of tanks, Im sure a lot more people would be screaming out.
Old 02-21-2007, 07:27 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Hey PJ, Here are my gears after about 3/4 gallon each. I obviously keep them in until failure @ about 3/4 gallon consistantly.
The front two are the 17T and the rear two are the 21T,
The 17t on right is after about 2 tanks after a head on crash with a curb, so it doesn't really count. But you can see before the the engine moved it was well on its way to being wore out..



Oh BTW LS7505, send those gears to me so I can finish them off for you. I will pay for shipping!!!
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Old 02-21-2007, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Be my guest Dogman

The gears wearing out quickly is also a huge contributing factor to the gear mesh issue. I would set it perfectly and then a few runs later there would be a considerable amount of backlash. Getting this matter straightened out is definitely an important factor in making the Genesis/Nemesis/GST platform more durable and maintenance free.

- LS7505
Old 02-21-2007, 08:48 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Hi Again Guys,

I think LS7505 should send these examples into CEN, if nothing else to show that pitting. What conditions was you running in?

My gears are exactly the same as TRD's so there is no point in pics, since they are identical! About 1 Gal of flat running to look like that - no big hills!

PJ not trying to wind you up, but as for this problem, it is real! - I'm not trying to bag out CEN! Just raise support for the anouncement they made concerning the development of these New Hardened Steel Gears. If you check the past posts here & on the OLD CEN site (oh I forgot - thats gone!!!!) you will see people were & the persistant ones among us who know these trucks are worth sticking with, still are! After all I am a supporter of the CEN Product line up! See post #1

CEN RACING hows about answering my PM on this subject PLEASE

.46NitroAddict [>:]
Old 02-21-2007, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

I do have to admit and be fair to CEN they did engineer a Killer truck and engine. This thing has so much power it tries to destroy itself and CEN has been doing a good job of weeding out weak links but they have two more including this one. The other is the outdrive cups on all three diffs..I would like to see a cvd or something on the center drives, or at least get therye hradening right, like the internal tranny gears!!
Old 02-21-2007, 09:02 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Hey .46NitroAddict,

When my account is activated on the CEN Racing forum I'll be sure to vote and post these pictures in the thread you created. As for running conditions, those gears were in use while I was driving the trucks on dry pavement with a little grass here and there, nothing that should make them wear so drastically.

- LS7505
Old 02-21-2007, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Hi LS7505,
ORIGINAL: LS7505

Hey .46NitroAddict,

When my account is activated on the CEN Racing forum I'll be sure to vote and post these pictures in the thread you created. As for running conditions, those gears were in use while I was driving the trucks on dry pavement with a little grass here and there, nothing that should make them wear so drastically.

- LS7505
Thanks for that.
I just thought they must have been in real gritty conditions! I recon CEN would be real interested in these - the look as if they are flawed.

TRD, I couldn't agree more. On all counts.

Don't get me wrong -I luv my Genny, (weak spots & All),

.46NitroAddict [>:]
Old 02-22-2007, 01:11 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

PJ not trying to wind you up, but as for this problem, it is real!
No worries, was just hoping that some of the later pinions might sort you guys out.

In the meantime, with your worn ones, would it be worth trying quenching them to harden them up - you only need a blowtorch and a little water or oil. Just a thought, Ive been through right pinion issues myself, I know how frustrating it is.

Or maybe source some other pinions to try, some Ofna stuff came out pretty high on the hardness tests I did. Results are in the link a few posts up. Coffee really helps when looking for something with the right thread though...

Im not looking to bash CEN either, it just appears we are in another "CEN Reply Drought". They must be busy with something or off racing etc. Ive got a stack of hardened pinions from allsorts of cars here, and hardness testing gear at work - I might be able to save you some searching if you can give me the thread sizes for the Gen pinions?
Old 02-22-2007, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Well i bought the upgraded out drives and driveshafts for the Nemesis and they are beffy as hell. Part number gss10 for the front and rear. It would be nice if they upgraded all the center driveline outdrives
Old 02-22-2007, 08:22 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

losi makes a 25 tooth pinion in tini for the lst i beleive there the same size and pitch
Old 02-23-2007, 11:36 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

i have over a gallon in both trucks and mine look like their brand new. i had other trucks that had the same type of gearing and i know that if the mesh isnt right it would seem that the spurs would wobble with the pinion hence the motor would be out of line or on an angle. its tough to set the gear mesh with 2 pinions because they need to be perfect or one will eat the other. i also put white lithium grease on the gears so this may contribute to ther low wear. to set my gear mesh i put a piece of folded paper between both gears and hold it their tight against the gears and slowly tighten the screws to the motor. this is not the easiest but the best way i have found to work with a 2 pinion and spur setup. i dont always get it right the first time around either i just set 2 screws and spin the pinion and if it wobbles then the motor is out of line. well thats my 2 cents, if you feel you need hardend metal gears then i will vote and help too.
Old 02-24-2007, 07:52 AM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

Hi Guys,

On the 20th of January CEN RACING posted an announcement for their new [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5271610/anchors_5292327/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#]Hardened Steel Pinion Gears[/link]
We are currently developing the hardend steel clutch bell gears and the thing is rock solid...
Ten minutes later I made a congratulatory post to CEN RACING
Now that is what we all want, as soon as they are out, I want to know! ...Eagerly awaiting these new tougher gears, & Thanks for working on this issue!
On the 28th of January I started a [link=http://cenracing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=343]poll[/link] on the Official CEN Forum, to raise support for these & that also asked CEN when these gears were due to be released. That's 4 weeks ago now. I think I have to agree with the following comment
ORIGINAL: poor judgement
Im not looking to bash CEN either, it just appears we are in another "CEN Reply Drought". They must be busy with something or off racing etc.
I even tried a "PM" to CEN RACING about 1 week ago, but still no response to any of my posts (on either forum, regarding this issue & 2-3 other unrelated posts I have also made) or "PM's".
I guess I am just a little dissapointed &/or frustrated that a company that has produced such a killer line of trucks, & has invested millions of dollars to improve their image, could be so non-responsive to their buyers!
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to bash CEN or start another war, I luv my Genny & sing its praises when ever I can, but fair suck of the sav!

A Big Thanks to all of you, who have replied &/or voted, your efforts are much appreciated..........


Anyway, enough of my Bitc# session,

LS7505, I luv your tag, ..... especially now I know what it stands for (I myself have a Holden Commodore produced by GMH here in Australia, with an LS1 with 225KW & a 6spd manual - I also want a Monaro, or what you may know as a Pontiac GTO).

poor judgement
ORIGINAL: poor judgement
Ive got a stack of hardened pinions from allsorts of cars here, and hardness testing gear at work - I might be able to save you some searching if you can give me the thread sizes for the Gen pinions?
As best I can tell, without pulling everything apart (just finnished putting it all back together) from the old 17t pinion gear, it would appear that the thread is M12 x 0.5 (can anyone that has their pinion gears, off their clutch bell, confirm this?), with a gear width of 6mm, & a new O.D. of approx 19.1mm (little hard to be exact since the teeth aren't exactly 180 deg opposite each other), the gears internal thread also has clearance rebate 12.2mm at one end, 1.5mm deep, to allow the gear to screw up hard against the clutch bell (allowing it to sit parallel to the clutch bell). Before it binds on the thread that doesn't go all the way up (it has small unthreaded portion next to the bell). Not sure if this makes any sence to you? if not I'll have to do a drawing with some dimensions.

blackrain not sure if this is the same thread as what you are talking about? If so, are they avaliable in 17t?

jombo yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I do, except for the grease. Do you get much dust in your grease, I would have thought it would become abrasive?

I think that covers everyone, sorry it took a while for my reply & that it is so long, ......

Kind Regards, .46NitroAddict [>:]
Here's to not havin' to change pinion gears every gal. or less!!!!!!!
Old 02-24-2007, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

jombo yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I do, except for the grease. Do you get much dust in your grease, I would have thought it would become abrasive?
no, and i drive in some dusty places. i put it on very thick but by the time i'm done driving its almost all off except a thin layer on the gears. the pics there are from the nemesis and as you can see their in good condition. the only thing that i could think of is since the gears are exposed to rocks and bigger rocks that is the only way they can get damaged. i'll see what i can come up with, i see a custom gear cover in the works.
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Old 02-24-2007, 08:25 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

losi only make a 18 and 25 tooth in tini
Old 02-25-2007, 02:57 PM
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Default RE: New Hardened Steel Clutch Bell Pinion Gears - CEN Gen, Nem, GST

jombo,

I might have to try your method & see if it helps. Keep me informed on the custom cover.

blackrain,

Thanks anyway, I guess if I get stuck 18t is close!

Many thanks Guys,

Regards, .46NitroAddict [>:]

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