Free Bird

Hey Guys!

I've got a set of plans for a Side Pocket, a .40-size Compensator look alike. What I need is the construction article for it. Can somebody post a pdf?? It was published in RCM 10/83. Thanks for the help Guys!!

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pitstop000

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Here you go FB.

JohnFH

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That looks like a fun one, and I just happen to have a .40 with no home

pitstop000

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It’s a good flying 40 size pattern plane.

Built one back in the 80’s as a daily practice plane for use at a tight local field.

I’d really like to get my hands on plans of John Millers 60 size version though.

Free Bird

Thanks Paul for the PDF! A .60-size Side Pocket? I didn't know he did a larger version. I'll have to look around.

Now, does anybody have a Wing Mfg "Sport Canopy" that they would like to sell? I don't think that Wing Mfg is selling stuff anymore. [:@][]

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JohnFH

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I just did a quick search and did not find anything on a 60 size, hope it's not another one lost. FB is this build something you might be doing soon?

pitstop000

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It wasn’t called a Side Pocket though, but there was a 60 size.

I’ve been looking and looking, he never published the plans but someone has to have a copy.

Free Bird

I just looked at the RCM site and did a search by the designer of the Side Pocket - no joy. Do you know if the design was published and what time frame and most importantly, what's the name of the model?

RFJ - do you have any insight on this? Designer was John P. Miller Jr.

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pitstop000

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Here is some info from Will.
We had some e-mails on the subject but plans were not found.

Free Bird

Interesting stuff Paul. I wonder if he still lives in MA.?

John - I'm thinking that I might. I've got a lot of choices though (kits or scratch).

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pitstop000

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Rick I've been looking since 07 for info and the plans.

Free Bird

So it sounds like you have exhausted all resources. I'll certainly keep my ears open.

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RCPAUL

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John Miller was a memeber of the club I belonged to in Mass. I remember both his Hip Pocket and his Side Pocket well. If I remember right, he move from Mass. a long time ago due to work. I thought his Side Pocket was published but maybe not.


Paul

pitstop000

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Just about, could always just start a thread and see.

You never know, but it's still worth pursuing it.

Hey, I never thought I'd find one of these, dubbed "the Atlanta 40"

Free Bird

Paul,

Did the Hip Pocket look anything like the Side Pocket? If it did, would enlarging the Side pocket plans fit the bill?

Nice Quatro! Didn't you get that recently on RCG? I've got another Atlanta 40 look alike - Omega 40. There might be a pic buried in the forum somewhere.

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doxilia

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Rick, Paul,

I'm glad the Side Pocket design has resurrected. Rick, Paul and I exchanged several emails and PM's on the subject a couple of years ago. I liked the transitioning airfoil and simple design of the model along with the nicely drawn plans. All I had to go on was the plan from the article though and it wasn't a reliable source to re-trace and build from.

Here is my crude attempt at scaling it to a 60 size. I evidently wanted to have a wing of a certain number of squares but I can't recall my thinking. I made some notes in the PDF indicating that the wing would be clipped short of my plan using 30-1/4" panels with 1-3/4" tips for a total wing span of 64". Making the wing plan larger (71-1/2" total span) and building it clipped would result in a wider chord wing with overall less taper but I was just playing around with the idea. Fuse length would be 58-2/3" with a wing saddle which of course would have to be modified. I'm not sure why I didn't do a simple scale up - probably also wanted a longer tail moment on the 60 but without a 6' wing... (40 size is ~47" length and 57" span).

This design merits being preserved in a CAD drawing. If I had a good scanned source, I'd be willing to do a "verbatim" CAD job. Probably break out any additional parts needed such as fuse sides, tops, vertical, etc. What I find rather time consuming is the laser layout transfer of parts from plans to cut sheet. Maybe if I supply the CAD plans, someone else could do the laser layout... Any takers?

First attachment is the article (1.4 MB) followed by the raw 60 size fuse and wing plan, respectively (2 MB each).

Bring it on Rick! I look forward to seeing more of this.

David.

P.S. Just realized the article was posted earlier by Paul in post #2.

doxilia

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Upon looking at the 60 size scaling job again, I see that I did a uniform scaling so the wing plan and fuse saddle match with a 15" wing root chord. But the wing was rather long at a 58-2/3" fuse scaling. It turned out to be 71.4" long which struck me as a little too large with a 15" root chord. I must have thought of preserving an aspect ratio similar to the Tipo with a 58" fuse and a 65" wing. Maybe a clipped wing is a bad idea though or if it is clipped, it could be clipped to 68" rather than 64". The 64" span wing would have ~816 squares - it's a wide wing for its time...

What do you guys think?

Man, those 40 size Japanese models look nice! A fellow modeler from the forum was kind enough to sell me a Yoshioka Dash-5 45 kit. Plug-in wings and an inverted RE YS 45 setup - nice... Problem is, the kit is too precious to build! [:-]

David.

MetallicaJunkie

i like it... i like the 70-80s sport and pattern planes...

flywilly

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Hey David,
use the original kit as a template and build a copy (or two ), then you still have the original. The canopy and belly pan are pretty easy and you can make a glass canopy or all wood if you don't need to 'see' the pilot.
As for scaling up the Side Pocket to a 60 sized (Hip Pocket size): scale up the fuselage to the size you want the adjust the wing/stab size by reducing span and/or tip chord. John drew up the Side Pocket plans for publication, but generally just used the infamous 'working drawings'. John's prototype Hip Pocket was 'splattered' [:@] at the '83 nats at Westover AFB due to radio interference which, unfortunately plagued a number of contestants (with similar results) - those 6' deep concrete runways are VERY unforgiving.
By the way, the club John belonged to is the 495th R/C club (or something similar - I should remember, I belonged many years ago) and maybe somebody from the club knows where John is. Of course there's always Google and Facebook - and John Miller is such an unusual name .
Thanks, Paul, for posting my original statement - saves me typing time!
-Will

doxilia

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Will,

thanks for the Hip Pocket suggestions. However, without a decent copy of them, I can't get much traction. Otherwise, I basically did what you suggested. Just clipped the wing and would produce a stab of corresponding scale.

As for the Dash-5 (nice bird!), if motivation strikes, I'll make a copy of the kit but in the end, the beauty of the Japanese kits is all that pre-sanded work done for you. Everything comes together nicely without the extra carving and sanding needed with a "scratch copy". The truth is, I can't see myself building more than one of each of these Japanese designs that come across my table. But I supppose the kits can serve as templates for a number of builders... In the end, maybe no Japanese cut wood will ever see a glue joint.

Do you recall what engine Miller powered his Hip Pocket with? From the article, it seems like he was fond of advocating plain bearing engines such as the K&B 40 for the SP.

David.

Free Bird

David -

I think that you've got some good thoughts there, however there's far too much speculaton and change to the original design. It just might make a good flyer a dog. While I like the idea of a larger Side Pocket, at this stage of the game with so many designs out there to build, I'd stick to something that's proven. If I had more frre time, I'd think about what you're saying. TO me, the Side Pocket looks somewhat like a Compensator, so if I wanted a larger Side Pocket, I'd probably build a Compensator and paint it to look like a Side Pocket.

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doxilia

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Rick,

I hear you. Just the old tinkering spirit kicking in.

Let's keep the thread to the Side Pocket 40 subject matter. I take it plans are still available from RCM?

David.

Free Bird

Yes they are. I don't remember when or where I got the the plans, guess I'm getting CRS! Anyway, there's a chap on the auction site pulling articles out of magazines and selling them. He had the SP article which reminded me that I had the plans. The article sold today for $11.51!! Amazing!

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Roguedog

FWIW here's my version of the 60 and 20 resized Side pockets. I liked the plane so much I re-sized it up and down.

Anyway here's the plans. First 4 files are the 60 size and the last three are the 20 size with a full wing plan

Free Bird

Rogue,

Thanks for posting the PDFs! When you say you liked the plane so much, did you build one?

Paul - What did the Hip Pocket look like? Was it just a larger SP?

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