Roguedog

Here you go Phil (rabbid fly) and all.

Bootlegger stabroot and tip plus layout for foam cutter.


Bryan

kitfox1

My Feedback: (2)

First picture of the canopy/s. Epoxy still needs to cure some more and I need to make a little adjustment to the front of mold, otherwise the canopy came out OK. This was a trial run and in the next one I will use a different brand of epoxy and the right amount of fiberglass layers. The picture is of the canopy on top of a Compensator fuselage that is build in accordance to plans with exception of being about an inch and a quarter longer. I really do not see why the canopy will not fit a wider fuselage, but once it is dry I going to make a template with the measurements given in previous posts just to make sure that there is not going to be a problem/s.

Roguedog

kitfox1,
Nice work on the Canopy's

Since the canopy fits over yours and Daves Comp fuse I think your current version of the canopy will be just fine. At first the 7.5mm width that you measured kinda though me a curve ballon my plans. Better to claiify then to find out later that the plans would need adjustment.

Keep up the good work and thanks for the effort.

Bryan

rabbid fly

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks Bryan that what i needed. Phil

Roguedog

/.

Roguedog

/

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Kitfox, Bryan,

Do we know what the height of the glass canopy section is? If not, I'd suggest taking the measurement from the highest point of the canopy to the base, assuming the base lies flat on the table along its length. I guess knowing its length would be useful too.

I was just thinking that without this dimension one can't set a horizontal fuse side datum line for proper planform. But maybe I'm missing something.

Good work Bryan.

David

kitfox1

My Feedback: (2)

David,
I am going to get a set of plans tomorrow and will take measurements with the canopy on top of the plans. A friend is going in South Carolina is going to loan me his plans so I can make a copy. Julio

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Julio,

that would be great. I guess at this point, if your deck is to be used, we have no datum line upon which to build the wood fuse underneath it. There are two or three "levels" that would be convenient to take as a fuse side top but ideally these would be shy of your deck by 1/8" or so in order to use a lite-ply pipe floor upon which the deck would ride.

This is how the MK Arrow is designed and it seems to work quite well in terms of CAD transfer. The Boot seems slightly more complex but simply because of the presentation of the original glass plans we have in the thread for reference.

Speaking of plans, I assume you're talking about the same Southern glass fuse/foam wing plans? Or are there any others?

The Boot just seems like a Deception on steroids. I bet it must move out even more than the Deception. If built with a light wood fuse, it could do very well with a slightly less powerful RE engine such as the vintage red head OPS's which are shown on the plan.

David

proparc

Guys, the Bootlegger looks an awful lot like the Deception on the plans. Could anyone fill me in as to the differences,flight characteristics etc. Also personal opinions between the two.

Thanks

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Proparc,

While the two birds are similar in their lines, the Boot is a slightly smaller pattern ship than the Deception. There are however various subtle differences. The Boot has a rounded fuse top and is not flat in side view. The elevator and rudder arrangement on the Deception is quite unique also while the Boot has a more typical control arrangement.

The Boot was also conceived from the start with a RE engine and pipe setup (OPS speed) while the Deception used a SE Rossi and pipe. Later, the Deception was also modified for a pipe under the canopy and several variations on the design came about (Exception, Double Vision, etc).

The airfoils on both are very similar as are those used on the Compensator. Decalage is likely slightly different too.

David

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Julio,

did you get the plans?

I'd be interested in those measurements (height and width at various "stations") when you are able to.

David

Roguedog

/

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Bryan,

Thanks for the info. I'm kind of assuming the same but gut feeling from viewing the photos of the glass deck tell me that it descends below the glass floor. I'm also wondering if the base of the deck is angled down at the FW as the Southern plans show. If the deck was somehow cutoff with a flat base, then the wood fuse would have to be modified to bring that level up to the deck. Hopefully Julio can provide a set of widths and heights at 4 points or so to verify.

One thing I noticed was that the plan posted seems to be a tad under scale compared to spec. I used the 64" span for reference. I think that a scaling of ~103% brings the wings to an even 64" and 726 squares (6 more than spec). The fuse is naturally longer than spec with the spinner included. I measured it to ~58.8" OAL. I made my plan this size given the more powerful RE 60's we have but it's no big difference in size either way.

How's your CAD plan coming along?

David

pitstop000

My Feedback: (26)

Hey David, just some more info, as you know I’ve done a lot of digging for info when it comes to the bootlegger.

<o></o>

I had noticed that the specs were a tad under scale also when measuring off the original plans that I shared.
(I had originally gotten a copy of the plans from (Will) way before getting any original kits to compare with.)

<o></o>

Once I had in my possession a few original kits plus original plans, I was able to compare the wing cores/stab cores and fuse
and what I found was everything lines up perfect with the plans, even though the dimensions in the spec area had different dimensions.

<o></o>

I also can tell you after a lot of digging for info that Steve’s first Bootleggers had side exhaust engines.
This was before the Glass version was offered by Southern R/C. I have some pics somewhere buried in my files
of his wood version with the SE engines and shots of the radio compartment clearly showing it was a wood fuse.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Paul,

Most interesting! I'd like to see those wood fuse pics if you find them.

David

kitfox1

My Feedback: (2)

Hi y'all.

I hope that this measurements and pictures will help. I made the canopy a little longer to allow for trimming and fitting the canopy to the fuselage/s. Loooking at the plane I think the canopy is tall enought to fit the plans and if it is not a little for your taste you can also shim it up by using some wood to move the canopy up. For me is just right, but we all know that we do not build the same.

With out trimming the canopy: 26 inches long at the longest part
24 3/4 inches at the shortest part
Hight from the thrust line is 4 1/4 inches.

I am going to put an OS FS 95 four cycle engine when I buid my Bootlegger. This has to do with the fact that Petra loves the new OS 95, has a very pleasant sound to her ears, and I am not going to tell no. Besides, she is going to buy the new engine. In order to close the opening for the tune pipe in the canopy I am thinking in making a dummy tune pipe (just the rear part of the tune pipe). what do you think..... good idea or bad idea?

I still have two canopies left, but I can always make more once the weather warms up a little bit. Hope that this information helps. Julio

kitfox1

My Feedback: (2)

H' yall,

What airfoil was used in the Bootlegger? Was it a NACA or some other airfoil. I need this information to make my templates to cut my foam wings and stab. Thank you and have a good night. Julio

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Julio,

Thanks for the pictures and measurements. Is the height you give at the heighest point of the canopy from the thrust line? What's the height from the base of the canopy/pipe tunnel? Also, does the canopy have a uniformly flat base along its length? In other words, does it touch the table everywhere along it's side when the canopy is right way up?

The airfoils for the wing and stab are definitely not NACA. In fact they're rather unique as are those on the Deception and Compensator. Bryan posted stab airfoils a few posts up. I can help there too if needed with the wing.

David

PS I'll drop you a PM on Friday

kitfox1

My Feedback: (2)

Hi y'all.

Question: Is the height you give at the heighest point of the canopy from the thrust line?
Answer: Yes, it is.

Question: What's the height from the base of the canopy/pipe tunnel
Answer: It is a little bit under 1 1/2 inches. To be safe I will take 1/8 from the measurement that you see in the picture to allow fitting of the canopy to the fuselage which will make the canopy height at this point a little bit under 1 1/2 inches. I am attaching a picture for you to see the measurement.

Let me know if there are any other questions. Also. If you have the airfoil for the Bootlegger wing, I would like to get a copy. Julio

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Julio,

Unless Bryan has the wing foils, I can provide them. I'll post them here.

As for the deck, I need a "differential" height measurement. You provide a height of 4.25" from thrust line to high canopy point. That's at the very top of the canopy not the pipe exit. I would now need the same height but from the table top rather than the thrust line. You would put the ruler beside the deck sitting on the table and measure eyeballing the alignment of the canopy top with the ruler.

Make sure you account for your ruler markings start point if they don't begin at the same point as the straight edge end (I have some rulers marked like that).

BTW, what glass layup did you do for the decks? They look very light. Are they strong enough and sufficiently heat resistant?

Thanks again, David

dphill2

My Feedback: (1)

Dont know if this is what you guys are looking for but the top cap that Juilo made fits a Southern RC Bootlegger and has plenty of room to trim to the pipe floor !!! Let me know if you want to see anything else !!!

Dave P..

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Oh yea! That does help Dave. Thanks for posting those.

The thing is to know to what height to raise the fuse sides to in a wood fuse. I just wanted to be sure that if a wood fuse was built to the level of the glass fuse pipe floor, that the canopy deck would not short change the proper full height of the fuse. From your picture, it looks like Julio's deck is uniform along the bottom (i.e., horizontal) all the way into the engine compartment. As can be seen from the plan, the glass pipe floor slants downward to the FW in the header area to accommodate a ~7-10 degree header.

The wood fuse sides need to rise horizontally at the top to mate with the deck even if the floor slants downward in the header area and would be captured within the sides a bit like a former does.

I'm not sure what y'all have in mind for the pipe floor but I was thinking of 1/8" lite ply painted with heat proof paint. Any other ideas or suggestions?

David

dphill2

My Feedback: (1)

David,
I used 1/8 lite ply and it worked fine, painted it with K&B epoxy paint and never had a problem with it. I feel like the pipe has more than enough air flow to keep it cool in the tunnel .
The Southern Kit comes with a Fiberglass pipe floor but is about twice as heavy as the lite ply !!!

Dave P..

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks Dave,

Lite ply it is. Did you split the floor at the FW to angle it downward as shown on the plan?

I do seem to have 100 questions on the subject but how much does your blue Southern fuse weigh? With or without floor?

Thanks again, David