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Como engines? Como 40

Old 09-03-2013, 06:47 AM
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JRgraham
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Default Como engines? Como 40

Curious if anyone could help me with some info on Como engines. I recently aquired some stuff that a fellow had sitting around for about 15 years, and within the pile was a few engines never run. One of which is a Como 40 ringed SCH glow motor.

I am not familiar with these, but it looks very nice. Still new in the box, was well oiled from factory and still seems to be as good as the day it was bought. Original box, manual and sticker inside.

Thanks
Old 09-03-2013, 06:53 AM
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JRgraham
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Couple pics:


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Old 09-03-2013, 07:26 AM
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lfinney
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they are identical to supretigre branded engines..and run very well...
Old 09-03-2013, 07:32 AM
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JRgraham
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I noticed the big S on the engine case, seemed to resemble the Super Tiger brand logo, so I assumed there was some sort of connection..

Well, if anyone has any interest in this motor, it is for sale. Have not posted it on the classified yet, since I am trying to figure out what it is and some sort of value.

Thanks for the tid bit.
Old 09-03-2013, 08:11 AM
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sharp333
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They are Super Tigre S40 engines, just re-branded as Como S40. They were sold by an US distributor at the time - world engines - if i remember well
very good engines.
takes some time for the ring to seat. if you are patient and run it richer until ring seats, it will have outstanding ring seal and compression, will last a long time and good power to weigth
Old 09-03-2013, 11:23 AM
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Gene Margiotti
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Excellent engines and really will last and produce a lot of power!! Great find.

Gene
Old 09-11-2013, 08:10 PM
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vertical grimmace
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I have one I flew back in the mid 80's. It seemed to be typical of the power you got out of a .40 at the time. One thing, they were used a lot in Q-500 pylon racing when they came out. I guess there was a moment when they were the engine to use. Probably before Webra, and certainly before Rossi. I have several Como engines, as I was trying to grab up all of the .29's I could for RC combat use several years ago. Value probably is not gonna be really high. $80 tops. Probably closer to $50 if NIB
Old 09-19-2013, 06:35 AM
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eddieC
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I'd guess over $100 easily for a collector. NIB is getting more rare every day.
Old 09-19-2013, 03:12 PM
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Hokie Flyer
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...

Last edited by Hokie Flyer; 10-25-2013 at 06:12 PM.
Old 10-15-2013, 04:58 PM
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von_Hammer
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ah, the Como 40, great engines. Ok, here is a condensed history for ya'-
yes it was an engine built by Super Tigre, but under contract to Indy R/C Sales, Inc., not World Engines, although we had to use World Engines as the importer.
yes, they were used in Quickie 500 racing pretty hard, and would turn 11 laps to anyone else's 10. It is not an S-40 at all- that was a later engine. Originally, it was derived from the much older G40, rear rotor engine, which originally had 2 piston rings, and a rounded head, with the crankcase mold modified to front intake, which is why the engine seems very short, and was the first 40 sized engine built by Super Tigre to use the Mag 5 carb, which had a larger throat than any previous carb, which I think was the best carb ever made by Super Tigre. That carb really made Super Tigre engines great to run. The earliest versions had fully bossed lettering on the side, and a short crankshaft (a carry over from the G40) that also had the fully round disk on the counterweight end, inside. Two problems came up- the lettering prevented you from installing the mounting screws, so guys would hog out the holes on that side, and the short shaft prevented proper mounting of a spinner. Not many went out with full lettering, as World Engines came up with machining the cases for us, so the lettering now followed the curve of the case- later production resolved the issue. I discussed the issue of the short crankshaft with Mr Garofoli (Super Tigre owner) at the Toy Fair in Nurenburg in '84, and they lengthened the threads. At that point, the engine was pure magic and a wonderful engine. Right before, or during the Sch version introduction, the disk came off the back of the crankshaft, and the engine ran even faster. The Sch version was the smoothest running engine I had ever seen on a plane, at the time. Another mod along the way was the spray bar in the carb. The original spray bar was round. later, to get more air opening, the spray bar was machined flat on two sides- easily seen looking down the throat. The early Como 40 ABC actually came in with the rounded head, like the G40, instead of the 'dipped fin' head of the typical Como- I can't remember if that ever changed later on.
The first engines came unpacked, and we had to box them in corregated white boxes, label them with gold labels, and throw in the carb and mufflers which came to Indy all separated- which saved us in customs charges as the engine was not ready to use out of the box. The first 100 were serial numbered ( I have #5 still running on an MK Astro 40) And yes, there was a Perry carb Como option as well, but only for a short period, as the Mag 5 proved itself quickly superior. The early muffler was the 'stinger' tail pipe (a bolt on part), and while playing around in the shop, we tried the G-60 bluehead tailpipe and got better performance again, and so that changed over time and the later engines came with the fat tail pipe. Also, the original front bearing was open, so Como's threw a lot of oil around, as it had better flow to the front bearing, and a 'lost lubrication' system. This drew some concern from some guys, wondering if there was an issue, but it was not a problem of any kind, just the nature of the beast. We got in a batch of bearings with front seals, so those who really didn't like it could swap it out, or send it in and we'd swap it, and later the engine came with the black rubber seal on the front bearing, not a sealed bearing, just a seal on the front side.
Later came the 40 ABC, perry ported version, then later a Schnuerle ABC version of the 40- which was still an original design, not just a relabeled Super Tigre. The Como was actually outperforming the comparable Super Tigres at the time. The S seriers was later, but still never had the popularity of the Como. The 51 came in as ringed version, baffle top piston, perry ported only- and can be identified easily by the 'filling' between the top 3 cylinder fins, vs the 'filling' only between the top 2 fins on the 40- the reason I state this part is because some guys used to buy 51's, and remark them as 40's and race with them (cheating).
The engine was originally a deal Indy R/C Sales Inc made with World Engines to have our own brand. The "Como" name came from Lake Como in Italy. The later Comos, 60, 75, 90, 29 were all original design, but the S series of Super Tigre were interchangeable with those (not the 40's or 51's)- basically the same engine with different crankcases. And by then the new, Beautiful looking blue boxes came out.
Once World Engines had sold out the O.S. and Super Tigre contracts, the new contract owners put on the pressure to kill off the Como with Super Tigre, and they had the leverage as (from what I was told) they had leverage from our original contract which stated World Engines had to be the importer- thus, the new guys would become the importer for their competitor for an engine that sold great (I would have to, as Como was selling around 4 to 1 over Super Tigre, at least at Indy R/C, and Indy was a major mover for O.S. and Super Tigre engines), and so, they cut off importing to the US, which left Indy R/C stuck; however, Super Tigre, Italy still made Como's for sale in Europe for a time. Not worth talking about that mess. The nearly direct import allowed Indy R/C to sell Como's a great prices, and that was bad, as the new contract owners were ramping up all engine prices about 300% overnight "to improve profitability". Of course, I only really saw the one side of things, and I'm not certain what happened on the World Engine side of things, other than what we were being told, or finding out at the time.
If I wanted a good running, long lasting 40 sized, 2 stoke engine today- I'd be looking for a good Como. Nothing made in the low cost regions of today can hold a candle to it. One thing about Super Tigre being in Italy- those Italians are well known for metallurgy, and I felt the Super Tigre-Italy engines were made from the finest metals anyone is this world could ever make. When I heard Super Tigre went out, and the name went to China, that was a blow. There is no way in a hundred years China will ever master the metal like the original Italian brand. Probably the only thing that devalues the Como engine is the lack of current part production, but with care, the most you may ever need for a long time is a needle valve from a landing oops.

Last edited by von_Hammer; 10-15-2013 at 05:58 PM.
Old 10-15-2013, 05:09 PM
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vertical grimmace
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Great story. I still have 3 Como .29's as I was hoarding them for class B combat several years ago. They will run with the .25 FX if you get a good one. I also still have an S X11, blue head. New in box never mounted. I suppose I should leave it that way. I have a fondness for those old Super Tiger engines. It was a different time.
Oh, and the Como.40 that I have is the ABC version. It has that added rubber gasket around the throttle barrel that seemed to be a later mod.
Old 10-20-2013, 04:22 PM
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p51b
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von, I was also disappointed when the Comos were no longer available. We used the 51's in Miss Martha airplanes for funflies, and it was a great combination. They offered more bang for the buck than just about anything available in the 80's and early 90's. Thanks for sharing the "rest of the story" with us.

Re the ST MagV carb, I believe it was a major reason for the performance of my all time favorite pattern engine, the ST Bluehead. I still have a couple of those and when I occasionally use one of them it is very rarely that I need more than a single flip to start. In the heyday of "Classic Pattern" with its limited startup time that was an important performance attribute.
Old 10-21-2013, 08:34 AM
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JRgraham
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Thanks everyone for the information! I have not been able to get on to the forums for quite awhile. Since the new forums went into action, I get errors claiming something about the redirection cycle was never ending loop or something..

Anyways, seems to work on this computer, so I wanted to get in here fast as i could to say Thanks.

Well, the motor is still in the box. I imagine it will remain there since I really never build anything smaller than a .60 sized glow.. and for that matter, its been years since I have built anything even that small. I tend to limit planes to 1.20 ~ish, or 50cc on average these days.

However, I just might have to consider some sort of .40 sized pattern plane just for nostalgia purpose, if no one ends up buying it off me.. Maybe even just hang it up in the hanger

Anyways, Thanks again for taking the time to respond, and especially for the great amount of history behind these motors!
Old 11-14-2014, 07:41 PM
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thailazer
 
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Friend just gave me nice Como 40 and was wondering if anyone was still flying these engines. It is in great shape and the carb is a work of art.
Old 11-15-2014, 07:07 AM
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p51b
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Take it out and fly it. Assuming that it is clean, the carb is one of the best ever. I still occasionally take out my Miss Martha with its Como .51 PDP and it still runs with the best of them.
Old 11-15-2014, 10:44 AM
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doxilia
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I fly a ST S40 which is as old as nails but doesn't have much run time on it. It was my first 40 size engine and I bought it In Italy in 1982 with my savings. It has the beautiful blue anodized head. The carb is the standard ST MAG V. I think the Como's (a ST branded for World Engines) used a similar but redesigned more modern carb like the later and current ST's.

About 7 lbs thrust on a tuned pipe and APC 10x6.

David

Last edited by doxilia; 12-05-2014 at 10:38 PM.
Old 11-19-2014, 06:23 AM
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pacoflyer
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I've got a great running 40 for sale here if anyone is interested…
Thanks
Old 11-26-2014, 02:47 PM
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Roary m
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Von Hammer, great stuff. I was of the impression at the time that World engines(Indy RC) sold the rights to Hobbico(there I said it) was because of the passing of John Maloney. Is this correct?
Old 12-05-2014, 04:23 AM
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CurtD
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The ST MagV carb was one of the best carbs ever manufactured. At one time you could buy the carbs separately and with a little ingenuity fit them to other engines, usually anything with a Perry carb. I still have a couple of the 0.40-size MagV's left in the junk box that have been sitting there for years. Last year a flying buddy was trying to get a Blackhead Webra .40 running on a new plane with little luck. It had a rather complicated carb on it that just would not work properly. I remembered the old MagV pulled of a worn-out K&B still in my 'parts' box. I dropped into some carb cleaner overnight and next day after cleaning and reassembly it looked and worked like a brand new carb. It fit my buddy's Webra perfectly and suddenly that engine became a powerhouse that ran like a champ!
Old 12-05-2014, 10:42 PM
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doxilia
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So switching gears momentarily but on the subject of carbs, on a Webra Speed 40/50, a Webra TN2, a Webra Dynamix, a ST MAG V or an OPS slide carb?

David
Old 12-16-2017, 01:07 PM
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Finally getting the Como .40 a home! Found a Craft Air Mystique on eBay and figured a classic plane needs a classic engine. So...... The Como will run soon. Got the wing done and now down to the tail feathers and finishing off the fuselage.

The Como appears to have never been mounted on a plane and it has much better compression than any of the three OS .46AX engines I have in planes. From what I read in an earlier post, the rings of the Como need to seat running a rich mixture so will have to make sure to do that. Can't imagine the compression it will have after that.
Old 01-26-2018, 07:52 PM
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In the final button up stage of the Mystique so might try to run the engine this weekend.
Old 01-28-2018, 11:52 AM
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Ran the engine today and all went well. 1QwkSport2.5r posted a link (Thank You!) on another thread and I am going to copy the text here so that it is preserved in case that website goes away. I used the set up procedure using the 1 foot of tubing and my lungs and the engine started immediately with a nice rich mixture with 4 cycle just breaking into 2 cycle. Now it is time to run some fuel through the engine and do taxi tests. This is one powerful engine from what I could tell in my careful start up.

Text below from Super Tigre Carburetor Adjustment ProcedureThe Super Tigre carburetor has two needle valves for adjusting fuel mixture. The # 1 needle is the high-speed adjustment needle (on left as viewed from rear of engine, the needle closest to the fuel inlet nipple). The # 2 needle (on right as viewed from rear of engine, and close to the throttle linkage attachment) is for slow speed adjustment. Newer Super Tigre carburetors have gone to a recessed screw in the barrel for slow speed adjustment. The idle speed adjustment screw is located to the left of the carburetor throat (as viewed from rear of engine). The screw on the right of the carburetor throat (as viewed from rear of engine) is the barrel retaining screw. Super Tigre carburetors have been maligned by some modelers as being hard to adjust and too finicky. My 30 plus years experience with Super Tigre engines has taught me to make any carb adjustments in very small increments, and once they are properly set they stay that way. If you are used to cranking a needle 1/4 to 1/2 turn to try and improve a condition, you will never get a Super Tigre carb adjusted properly. I have had properly adjusted Super Tigre carburetors go from too rich to too lean in less than a quarter turn of the low speed needle. To set up this carburetor you will need a short piece (1 foot) of clean fuel tubing.
First the idle speed adjustment screw needs to be adjusted so that the throttle barrel is open about the diameter of a modeling T pin. Later after the idle and mixture has stabilized and the engine is mounted in the aircraft this setting can be backed off so that the throttle barrel will close all the way with low throttle and low throttle trim to kill the engine.

Open the throttle barrel wide open, then with the length of clean fuel tubing attached to the fuel inlet nipple, blow through the tubing. Screw the high-speed needle in until you hear no air escaping. Now open the high-speed needle 2-1/2 turns.
Now with the throttle barrel at the previously established closed position, gently blow through the tubing. Adjust the low speed needle in until you can barely hear air escaping. Now open the low speed needle 1/2 turn from this position. Bear in mind if you change the position of the throttle stop you will have to reset the low speed needle. Also the setting on the high-speed needle will affect the low speed transition. I have had the best luck trying to get a reliable idle and good transition with brand new Super Tigre engines after they are properly broken in. I have run as much two gallons of fuel through Super Tigre ringed engines before the idle and transition stabilized to an acceptable level. The breaking in of a Super Tigre engine is time consuming and if not rushed, will reward you with an engine that should almost last a lifetime.
With the engine mounted on your aircraft it is time to start it. Fill the fuel tank and open the carburetor wide open. With your finger over the carburetor throat (and glow plug driver NOT CONNECTED) bring the prop up on the compression stroke and slowly turn it through one revolution. You should see fuel flow into the fuel line and into the carburetor, flip through about two more revolutions with your finger over the throat. If when you remove your finger from the carburetor throat and the fuel in the fuel line flows back into the tank, this could be an indication that your fuel tank is too low relative to the carburetor’s centerline. Go to low throttle, high throttle trim on your radio. Connect the glow driver and with a chicken stick flip the prop through until the engine starts. Some of the hotter Super Tigre engines that I have had had a propensity to start in reverse. If this is the case try rotating the prop backwards against compression and letting it pop back. Usually the engine will start and run in the proper direction. If the engine starts and will idle fairly well, let it run for a minute or two to allow the engine to come up to operating temperature. Advance the throttle slowly to wide open. Listen to the engine and determine if it's four stroking or two stroking. If it's four stroking screw in the high-speed needle until the engine transitions to two stroke. Now open the high-speed needle until the engine just goes into four stroke. Back off the throttle to idle and have a helper hold the aircraft. With the helper holding the aircraft advance the throttle to wide open. Have your helper point the nose of the aircraft to the sky. If the engine speeds up to a stable two stroke, the high-speed needle is set properly. If the engine is new, I generally open the high-speed needle about 1/8th turn additional to ensure a rich high end until it's broken in.

Once the high-speed needle is set, return the aircraft to the level position and set the throttle to low throttle/high trim. If the engine is idling let it idle a few seconds then slowly advance the throttle. If the engine burbles, and it may spit fuel out the throat, it's too rich. If this is the case, close (clockwise) the low speed needle about 1/8th turn. Run the engine to full throttle to clear it out then return to idle for 10 to 20 seconds then slowly advance the throttle. Repeat the above procedure until you have a smooth throttle transition. If the engine sags and hesitates with no burbling it means the low speed needle is too lean. Open (counter clockwise) the low speed needle about 1/8th turn and try it again. This is the most time consuming part of adjusting any model engine carburetor so be patient. Once you are satisfied with the idle and transition return the throttle to wide open and recheck the high speed setting as per the previously outlined method and make the necessary small changes, then fly.
Note: Do not be tempted to short cut the break-in, burn at least a gallon of fuel with the high speed set rich. After break-in is accomplished do not try to adjust to the last few higher rpm's, as this is the quickest way to turn your Super Tigre engine into a so-so performer (or worse) rather than a star performer. Also do not use the glow plug that came with the engine, substitute an OS #8 plug.
Some have reported that the venturi can be rotated from it's straight down position to a slightly forward facing position to improve low speed transition. I have never encountered a problem that made this necessary, but it remains something to consider if all else does not give satisfactory results.

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