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OS 61 Hanno Special question

Old 07-02-2005, 09:10 AM
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Default OS 61 Hanno Special question

I recently replaced my OS 61 with a relatively new Hanno Special that I acquired some time ago for my Ultra Sport 60. It didn't run very well for what I believe are a number of reasons. The header and tuned pipe were set to maximize the older original engine (non Hanno). From what I've read, the Hanno puts out greater hp with less rpm's and requires a larger prop. I was flying an APC 12x10 on 10% cool power with an exhaust not properly tuned for the Hanno. Can anyone give me suggestions on appropriate length of header and pipe for this engine? Actual part numbers would be great. Also, what size prop should I use? Thanks. Regards...

Richie
Old 07-02-2005, 01:13 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

I don't have pipe length number on top of my head, but should be able to dig out later.
Here is what I remenber:
APC 12x10 or 12x11 prop
Enya #4 plug
Cool Power 25%
Setting for 10,500 rpm

I had two back to 1995, but had to switch to YS-120 after (pattern contest) engine size restriction removed. Very smooth and reliable engine.
Using Enya #4 is just a personal preference. Lots of my friends were using OS #8, no significant difference.
It does need 25% nitro to boost the power.
Again, 10,500 rpm is my personal preference, some friends of mine set a little bit higher, but it works great.
There're two difference thickness of cylinder head gasket. If your engine has early detonation problem (engine kicking like crazy), switch to a thicker one that will reduce the compression ratio slightly and solve the problem. This is common if your flying site is at high elevation.

I was running 11,000 rpm on my OS-61RF before switched to Hannon Special, so the pipe length only increased roughly 1/2". It shuold be very easy to tune up your enigne.

I will try to dig out the recommend pipe length. Good luck!


Luke
Old 07-02-2005, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

I am currently running a Hanno Special in a Conquest 7, and have been for about two years. Absolutely wonderful engine. All the time, I get suprised modelers who want to know what engine is so quiet and so powerful. Anyway, I digress.

I run 12 x 12 to 12.5 x 11.5 APC props (Hanno Special was designed around the 12 x 12)
I agree that 10500 rpm is the right speed to shoot for. Hanno's do not produce more power beyond that rpm.
Nitro should be 20% to 30%
I use an OS #8 plug

Pipe length depends upon your pipe. I assume you will be using a quiet pipe, with flat baffles. If you have flat baffles, then set the first baffle at 18.5 inches from the face of the engine's exhaust flange. This distance is not a straight line. Take a piece of electrical wire or string and run it along the curves of your header, and out to the first baffle. The string should be 18.5 inches long.

Hope this helps. Lem
Old 07-03-2005, 12:40 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

Found an original manual of this engine from a friend. The manual only shows header length is 17.5 cm, or 7", and using the OS pipe.
Since position of baffle maybe different for different brand pipes, the best way is to run and tach the engine directly. Luke
Old 07-03-2005, 06:45 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

OS sold some Hanno pipes that were actually Hatori 650. Then OS switched to the Hatori 700. These pipes have different baffle lengths. You can find the first baffle by pushing a wooden dowell into the pipe until it stops, or just looking at the baffle welds, if they are visible. Like Luke said, other people's set-up can be a good starting point, then use your tachometer.

If you are interested, I bought a beautiful ES carbon pipe for this engine, and it does not fit in my plane. It is a copy of a Hatori 650. [&o] It has never been in the air, only run on a bench for 10 min tops. Weight is 2 oz. I paid $140, but would sell it for $100 if you are interested. See pic.


[img][/img]


Lem
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Old 07-18-2005, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

Thanks for the input gentlemen, as you can see, I've been out of the loop for a while. Lem, I like that pipe very much, although I was actually considering the Hanno pipe from Tower Hobbies which is anodized in red (see below). However, I do have one question about your carbon pipe with regards to it's end. Is that an exhaust diverter at the end of the pipe or is it actually a "part" of the pipe? If so, can it be cut off WITHOUT changing it's performance? I don't like the look of that diverter sticking out to the side like that. Thanks again.

PS...I didn't realize that 20-30% nitro was needed for this engine. I normally fly 10% with my airplanes. Is this higher nitro content essential in order to properly tune this engine to it's new exhaust system? Regards....

Richie
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Old 07-20-2005, 04:47 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

When run with an APC 12 x 12 prop, and the stock O.S. Hanno pipe setup, target RPM with 10%-15% fuel was about 9,600. We'd dial-in the pipe so that the engine would turn mid-9,000's at full throttle when leaned to just rich of peak RPM. That's where the O.S. instructions put it...it was designed for running in the mid-9's. Different brands of propellers would give different performance, even if they were supposed to be the same pitch and diameter. O.S. mentioned ASANO props, but we used APC here in the States.
Old 08-14-2005, 02:39 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

You do not have to run the hanno at such low RPM. If you need the power and can stand the noise use a four inch header and a Macs 10cc standard muffled pipe and a 12-7 or 8 prop. The OS pipe has a very narrow rpm range, the Macs pipe will rev higher in the air.
Old 10-13-2005, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

Does anyone know what the difference is between the MK1 and MK2 hanno special? I have the MK2 and it is a great engine, I use one of the original blue OS pipes and run it on Model Technics 10% swinging a 12x10 might not be getting the full potential but its way powerfull enough for what I need and it doesnt miss a beat!
Great Engine!
Old 10-17-2005, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

ORIGINAL: Kweasel

You do not have to run the hanno at such low RPM. If you need the power and can stand the noise use a four inch header and a Macs 10cc standard muffled pipe and a 12-7 or 8 prop. The OS pipe has a very narrow rpm range, the Macs pipe will rev higher in the air.
The Hanno was designed for and intended to be run at about 9,600 RPM. O.S. targeted 9,600 RPM with an APC 12 x 12 prop and the Hanno tuned exhaust system. F3A fliers usually ran engines in that RPM range, which is what the Hanno was designed for.

The Hanno II had a slightly-different pump/carb system and a slightly-different cylinder head. Performance was about the same.

Old 06-23-2007, 08:49 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

I'm running a 61 hanno in an F-20 Tigershark (40 size a/c). I am having a problem getting the engine to pipe up to the OS red annodized pipe from OS / Horizon. Does anyone know the length for this pipe, from the plug to the first bend in the pipe? I have been going for RPM's, but after reading this thread, maybe I will go to a 12x10 prop. I have been using 10% fuel, will now upgrade to 20%.
Old 06-24-2007, 07:53 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

As I recall the hanno was set at the 9600 rpm range with a 12x12 to make noise requirements for compitition so the optimum set up is as Bax stated! If higher than 15% nitro is used detination is a real problem and if the detination issue is not remmedied IE: lower nitro or shiming the head the motor will start eating pistons and sleeves and shorten the life of the rear bearings and parts availability for the hannos is limited in the extreme ( the faster they go the faster they blow) The 6p carb that came with the hanno is necked down I believe it was done to reduce the performance of the engine for noise limitations of the day. I have played around with my hanno's using 7L carb the 86 carb from the rf&sf-p along with the pump from the same engine different props to include some of what bolly has to offer, and I have concluded thet the optimum set up is as it comes in the box on 15% syn with a 12X12 bolly turning SUB 10,000 RPMS MY DEFINITION OF OPTIMUM IS: STARTS WITH JUST A BACK FLIP, TRANSITIONS THROUGH THE HOLE RPM RANGE, AND IDLES AT A DEAD SLOW RPM DOESNT LOAD UP WHEN ASKED TO REV UP just my opinion also to take advantage of this engine tha aircraft it is used in should be sub 8lb.


see you at the BPA contest in hunstville al in aug.


gary
Old 06-24-2007, 08:03 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

Question for Bax: Any possibility you guys could request OS produce say a run of 500-1000 Hanno's for the USA?

There's a renewed interest in ballastic pattern and this engine will allow us to have our fun yet still do it quietly. We're all beating each other up on eb*y for these and even the older RF-P... I'm sure you could sell out a new batch within a few weeks, many from guys right off this forum.

Put me down for 3
Old 06-24-2007, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

I'm glad to see that this threat was revived. I'd suggest we all go to www.osengines.com and click on the contact us link on the bottom of the home page and follow instructions for making a new product suggestion to show them there are many of us still interested in this motor. I'd pick up 5 of them in a heart beat. Regards,

Richie
Old 06-24-2007, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

ORIGINAL: tomcatman

<snip>I'd suggest we all go to www.osengines.com and click on the contact us link on the bottom of the home page and follow instructions for making a new product suggestion to show them there are many of us still interested in this motor. <snip>
I just did exactly that...

I'd be down for a couple...

I have used this thread(and other like it) several times for reference...Good Stuff!!

I just got a used RF-P off eB*y which I'm gonna re-build...I ran it real quick and the pump seems to function alright...But it's pretty crapped up internally so it's gonna get a good going over and *Mabey* I can whip her into shape?? If not..Oh Well..That's eBay I suppose...

My first OS Engine if you can believe that..lol

Have Fun...

Chuck
Old 06-24-2007, 06:30 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

Chuck, If you're going to rebuild it, I'd strongly suggest ceramic based bearings from www.bocabearings.com. They'll cost a little extra, but they'll be well worth the investment IMHO.

Richie
Old 06-24-2007, 07:18 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

Huh..Never hear of such!! Very Interesting!! I'll take a look at those...If nothing else they are Kewl...Thanks

Yeah..I'm defiantly re-building...I had it in the oven as I was typing that last message to take her apart...lol

It's all apart and I'm working up a parts list as we speak...Bearings, Connecting Rod, Piston/Liner, some Carb related stuff, Gaskets and O-Rings..ect...

I'm stuck on the "Piston Pin" and the "Drive Washer" though...No luck in finding either one of those...I would *Really* like to replace the Piston Pin...The Drive Washer isn't too bad...I could live with it...

I sure hope this thing runs well when I get done..he he

Thanks for the Tip...

Chuck
Old 06-24-2007, 07:47 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

ORIGINAL: bklearjet

I'm running a 61 hanno in an F-20 Tigershark (40 size a/c). I am having a problem getting the engine to pipe up to the OS red annodized pipe from OS / Horizon. Does anyone know the length for this pipe, from the plug to the first bend in the pipe? I have been going for RPM's, but after reading this thread, maybe I will go to a 12x10 prop. I have been using 10% fuel, will now upgrade to 20%.
Hey..I can keep you busy reading for a bit any how...I just have all of these "BookMarked"...The info you seek is in here somewhere...I'll just give you all the links I have..Sorry...You'll have to fish through them..he he
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_93.../tm.htm#932269
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4594043/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_49...tm.htm#4920850
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_52...tm.htm#5253039
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20...tm.htm#2078463
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_17...tm.htm#1797885
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_13...tm.htm#1358410

Sorry for being so mean and making you have to work...I'm just in the middle of something or I'd be happy to look through them myself...

Have Fun...

Chuck
Old 06-24-2007, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

I just bought an APC 12/11 prop and a jug of 25% fuel. Will install the prop this week and test the 9500 rpm thing with the O/S red pipe. This concept seems like running a 4-stroke engine. i.e. a four stroke has pull, torque, etc, and if this engine will only develope 9500 rpm's , then I go with it. Maybe the 25% fuel will help to pull it. Thanks guys for all of the advice.
Old 06-24-2007, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

All I know is what I have read in those links I've listed above...But one thing I happened to notice is there seems to be a slight difference between the Hanno MKI and the MKII...

If I read/remember correctly...The MKI did actually "turn-up" a bit more than the MKII...As I understand it the HannoII was designed to run at the lower RPM's similar to the 4-Stroke concept with a goal of lowering the noise...

Again...*I'm* no expert...But I kinda take it as the Hanno and the HannoII are different engines and are tuned/propped differently...

Do you know which Hanno you have??

And please don't listen to me..he he...I'm an OS noob just making an observation...

Have Fun...

Chuck
Old 06-24-2007, 08:26 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

I have had this engine for about 10-15 years. Been running it on a 60 size ugly stick with an 11x7 with no problems. But now I am running it on a "jet-prop", the F-20, a 40 size a/c. Got the new pipe from OS, and have so many problems getting it to "come up". One click in on the high end starves it, and one click out bogs it. Not to mention the low end idle is very touchy. I want to get this engine right, but I dont want to burn it up. So, testing this next weekend with the lower rpm's with the new prop, and the higher nitro should be a good combo.
Old 06-25-2007, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

ORIGINAL: Lotus72D

Question for Bax: Any possibility you guys could request OS produce say a run of 500-1000 Hanno's for the USA?

There's a renewed interest in ballastic pattern and this engine will allow us to have our fun yet still do it quietly. We're all beating each other up on eb*y for these and even the older RF-P... I'm sure you could sell out a new batch within a few weeks, many from guys right off this forum.

Put me down for 3
Actually, it's not at all likely. Hanno engines haven't been made for nearly a decade, so re-tooling would wind up making the engines cost too much. Worldwide demand is too low for that engine. For the U.S. Market, it's not really suited for ballistic pattern models. It didn't turn the RPM. It was an engine intended for the turnaround pattern style of the late 1990's. The .61 FX is actually a better engine for ballistic-type flying because it will turn the RPM levels you need.

ORIGINAL: bklearjet

I have had this engine for about 10-15 years. Been running it on a 60 size ugly stick with an 11x7 with no problems. But now I am running it on a "jet-prop", the F-20, a 40 size a/c. Got the new pipe from OS, and have so many problems getting it to "come up". One click in on the high end starves it, and one click out bogs it. Not to mention the low end idle is very touchy. I want to get this engine right, but I dont want to burn it up. So, testing this next weekend with the lower rpm's with the new prop, and the higher nitro should be a good combo.
Hmmm....an 11 x 7 would definitely be considered "too small". The engine was designed to turn an APC 12 x 12 prop in the mid-9,000's when piped. The Hanno pipe was the correct length to tune the engine for that RPM range. Trying to use a Hanno pipe with an 11 x 7 prop would not work at all. The pipe length would be too long.


Old 06-25-2007, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question

Thanks for the input Bill, very informative, and to think that I was starting to get my hopes up...[] I have no doubt the FX is a great engine. I just hate that the needle has been relocated to the rear of the engine. That won't fly with the setup on my Ultra Sport 60 without serious modifications to the fuse and who has time for that?? LOL, I know I don't. Regards,

Richie
Old 06-25-2007, 08:20 PM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question


ORIGINAL: bklearjet

I just bought an APC 12/11 prop and a jug of 25% fuel. Will install the prop this week and test the 9500 rpm thing with the O/S red pipe. This concept seems like running a 4-stroke engine. i.e. a four stroke has pull, torque, etc, and if this engine will only develope 9500 rpm's , then I go with it. Maybe the 25% fuel will help to pull it. Thanks guys for all of the advice.
BAX, I posted the above before your reply of the following >>>>>>

Hmmm....an 11 x 7 would definitely be considered "to small". The engine was designed to turn an APC 12 x 12 prop in the mid-9,000's when piped. The Hanno pipe was the correct length to tune the engine for that RPM range. Trying to use a Hanno pipe with an 11 x 7 prop would not work at all. The pipe length would be too long.



Do you think the combo will work good?

Thx, BK
Old 06-26-2007, 12:47 AM
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Default RE: OS 61 Hanno Special question


ORIGINAL: Lotus72D

Question for Bax: Any possibility you guys could request OS produce say a run of 500-1000 Hanno's for the USA?

There's a renewed interest in ballastic pattern and this engine will allow us to have our fun yet still do it quietly. We're all beating each other up on eb*y for these and even the older RF-P... I'm sure you could sell out a new batch within a few weeks, many from guys right off this forum.

Put me down for 3

----------------


Just to pick a nit and to say that I realize that all of this is subjective, Hanno and RF engines were not part of the ballistic pattern style of flying to me. Huge props with extremely quiet muffling and vibration damping systems were a part of the Turnaround movement/era. To me, they are as sexy as a 1.20 four-stroke. In other words, not sexy.

Piped Rossi and Webras, noise be damned - now that was ballistic pattern! <G>


Ed Cregger

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