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Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

Old 02-01-2006, 01:44 PM
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jquid
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Default Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

Hello Everyone,

I have a Great Planes Illusion kit I bought about 6 years ago and am finally going to begin the build. I just purchased a Rossi .60W/Pipe for it. I was looking to put in a 4 stroke, but some people got upset at the prospect. I decided to go the old school way and do the Rossi, and becasue it seems to have a bunch of power.

A few questions if anyone is familiar with this ship.
- It was designed with Trike gear, I think I want to make it a tail dragger, but am unsure of where to place the retracts in relation to the wing. Is there a formula for gear placement, be it trike or tail?

-Fuse is glass, and sort of flexiable. Will epoxy paint be applicable? do I need any flex agents in it so it does not crack?

Thanks in advance!
Old 02-01-2006, 03:20 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

This Great Planes Tiporare build might help http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2827386/tm.htm . Tri-gear retracts will easily fit and you will not be sorry. Take a look at the paint used on the Tipo, it’s working out fine.
Old 02-01-2006, 04:23 PM
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tommy s
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

I have a fiberglass, taildragger Illusion that flew with a MVVS .77 and it is one of the best flying airplanes
I have ever had. You will like it. Although it is too fast for todays pattern it would be great for SPA
events.
The maingear struts are 2 1/4 inches from the leading edge of the wing measured at the struts and the
gear has a 20 inch tread width.

tommy s
Old 02-02-2006, 09:36 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..


ORIGINAL: tommy s

I have a fiberglass, taildragger Illusion that flew with a MVVS .77 and it is one of the best flying airplanes
I have ever had. You will like it. Although it is too fast for todays pattern it would be great for SPA
events.
The maingear struts are 2 1/4 inches from the leading edge of the wing measured at the struts and the
gear has a 20 inch tread width.

tommy s

Thanks,

I will let you guys know how the build comes along. Incidentally, did you build the wings as is or honeycomb them? I was toying with some honeycombing, not a ton- just to make things a bit lighter. Too bad SPA does not have it on their list of approved planes that I could find.
Old 02-02-2006, 06:15 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

The foam used for my Great Planes kit was very light stuff. I’ve tried cutting out foam on other wings but it didn’t save very much weight. It would if the foam was real heavy though.
Old 02-03-2006, 02:05 AM
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vintageflyer
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

How about keeping us in tune with your build up via pictures??

DM
Old 02-13-2006, 03:16 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

Can anyone recommend what 3 blade prop would work best? The instructions mention a 3 blade, but no pitch or Dia. Can anyone provide some recommendations?


Thanks!
Old 02-13-2006, 07:58 PM
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impactiq
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

Here are some good links that will give you the pros and cons of the 3 blade vs 2 bladed props.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_14...tm.htm#1434594

http://www.bolly.com.au/book/content/24.htm
Old 02-13-2006, 09:56 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

Tommy,

I really don't understand why the assumption is being made that the vintage birds can't fly the present AMA pattern because of speed. There is no reason any of the vintage birds can't do a great job of at least though Advanced. That left stick has more than two positions. Of course these planes were not designed for the slow pattern as it is today, but to take out all of the great flying planes of the last 20 years because they are perceived as too fast is really not accurate at all. Just out of interest, I'll be flying a Brushfire in AMA pattern this year along with at T2A MK IV. I will be flying a Patricia in SPA pattern along with a T2A MK I and for vintage pattern I will be flying a New Orleanian. All will have tricycle gear and two strokes with the exception of the T2A MK IV which was designed as a tail dragger. Since the rule changes, I am really looking forward to putting a Jet .90 RE in the Brushfire. think of the vertical (should give new meaning to Ballistic Pattern don't you think??) The bottom line is that it is still 85% pilot and 15% airplane. I hope a few other folks will join in. With the ARF wave, the number of kits for even current pattern ships is both limited and very pricey. It should be an interesting season..... now where did I put that glass cloth.....


Dan

Carolina Custom Aircraft
Old 02-28-2006, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

Hi All,
Hi All,

I have a question about spars. I plan on placing 2 the length of the wing in this bird. One on top, the other on the bottom. I was going to router out a channel for them, and then attach my retract mounts to them for strength. Is this overkill? Th plans call for 2 spars on top, about 2/3 the length of the wing, and parallel to each other. I have also read about people placing a !QUOT!V!QUOT! channel and filling it with carbon fiber and epoxy. Any benefit to this? I would assume you could introduce many voids and weak spots by doing this. Any suggestions?

Another question. I received my Rossi .60 W/Pipe finally from EBay, all is good, and at only $199 could not pass up. The question is that the pipe is to be recessed in the fuse, and belly pan. The belly pan is glass, and they say you can heat it to make it conform to the wing, and pipe. Anyone try this? I cannot see moving the glass and epoxy about 1 -1/2 inches round to make clearance for the pipe. I am assuming I will need to fabricate a custom one.

The other option is to use the Rossi header, which is at a 90 degree bend and hang the pipe out the right side of the fuse. But I think that would detract from the look, and induce a lot more drag. Otherwise I will get a macs standard radius header, and recess. Any thoughts?

TIA.
Old 02-28-2006, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

The lightest way to reinforce the wing is with some carbon fiber tape under the wing
skins. My Illusion has nothing added just the wing skins, although the wings are glassed
and painted instead of monokote, so I'm sure the fiberglass added enough reinforcement..
The retracts are mounted on flat plywood plates just epoxied to the wing cores, never had
a problem. My MVVS was rear exhaust so I just cut a channel in the belly and made a
pipe tunnel out of 1/16" balsa with fiberglass cloth over it, real easy.

To Dan from Carolina Custom Aircraft,
The Illusion is a great flying airplane but it was designed to fly fast and it does that, real well.
If your serious about competing in the new pattern events it IS too fast, I've done it and it's very
difficult to stay inside the 60 deg box at high speed and it doesn't fly that well at slow speeds, it
wasn't meant to. I like it but there are many new designs better suited to todays pattern.

tommy s
Old 02-28-2006, 11:11 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

Thanks Tommy,

Can you post some pics of your illusion?

Thanks!
Old 03-08-2006, 12:36 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..


ORIGINAL: tommy s

The lightest way to reinforce the wing is with some carbon fiber tape under the wing
skins. My Illusion has nothing added just the wing skins, although the wings are glassed
and painted instead of monokote, so I'm sure the fiberglass added enough reinforcement..
The retracts are mounted on flat plywood plates just epoxied to the wing cores, never had
a problem. My MVVS was rear exhaust so I just cut a channel in the belly and made a
pipe tunnel out of 1/16" balsa with fiberglass cloth over it, real easy.

tommy s

Tommy,

Did you go with 2 or 3 gear set up? I just got my retracts, the B&D from Tower 3 gear set up. I am returning them as the majority of the parts are plastic, and the nose gear mount is too big to be able to fit the header by it. I think I will go with the Robart new economy series, that includes the air kit, and make it a tail dragger. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Old 03-08-2006, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

Two gear taildragger, not much room in the nose and the pipe from the rear exhaust engine
won't allow a nosegear in mine. I'll dig it out of the attic and take a few pictures when I get a little
time. One wing has a big dent in the leading edge from a moving accident but it still looks pretty
good. I might repair it and get it back flying someday.
I think the air retracts are the way to go, no linkage to screw up.
Good luck,

tommy s
Old 03-08-2006, 05:11 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

My GP catalog shows the Illusion engine side mounted with a side port engine. Looking at my Tiporare it looks like with the correct header pipe, that with a rear exhaust there would still be room for a nose gear. I went with a tri gear setup on the Tipo and I’m glad I did. It was easy to install and so far no maintenance.
Old 03-08-2006, 07:48 PM
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impactiq
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

There should be 2 sets of building guides that came with the Illusion. In the 2nd set, there shows the modification needed to be made to the nose retract to get it to fit and clear the header. Here is a picture of that. Hope it helps.
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

This unit from Spring Air may also solve the clearance problem.
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:44 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

When I first got mine it was indeed set for a side mounted engine but as I already had
the rear exhaust MVVS engine and I like a cleaner look I changed to an inverted engine
set up with the pipe running right down the middle of the belly, believe me with the pipe
down the middle there is no room for a nose gear, just barely enough for the fuel tank.

tommy s
Old 03-09-2006, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..


ORIGINAL: impactiq

There should be 2 sets of building guides that came with the Illusion. In the 2nd set, there shows the modification needed to be made to the nose retract to get it to fit and clear the header. Here is a picture of that. Hope it helps.

Thanks,

I do have that set of instruction, but that is for the Dave Brown Mechanical unit. The Air units are larger, and with the header there really is no real room, but maybe the robart one will fit, I have to just make some measurements. The B&D one spans the length of the firewall, and has 2 cylinders in it. Therefore no room to cut it. The other option is to belly mount on the floor of the tank, which may clear it as well??
Old 03-09-2006, 06:45 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

Make it a tail dragger.
Old 03-09-2006, 07:11 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

My vote is for a nose gear and run the pipe down the right side of the fuselage!
Old 03-09-2006, 10:06 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

And waste that nice pipe tunel under the fuse. LOL
Old 03-10-2006, 08:08 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

I see! If Dave made the pipe work with a nose gear we should be able to make it work too.

Old 03-10-2006, 08:21 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

ORIGINAL: 8178

I see! If Dave made the pipe work with a nose gear we should be able to make it work too.

Score.

Tri-gear: 1

Tail Dragger: 0
Old 03-10-2006, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Illusion -Build Q's..

LOL, I Know, but why go to all that hassle when there is an easy solution ?

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