rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

No, the sheets are the LE and TE. After you glue on the top sheeting, cap strips, etc., remove the wing from the board and saw the sheets flush with the bottom edges of the ribs. It's called the "lost jig" method because after gluing up the wing the "jig" portions of the LE and TE are cut off.

David

lonestoner

i also use the tabs and blocks supplied by the kit

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I finally figured out why my experience doesn't jibe with Matt's experience. I never built the GP version of the Kaos, BUT I do have the GP version of the Kaos in my kit inventory now. Under a ton of the wife's stuff, but they're there.

The Kaos 60 and Kaos Jr. that I built were original Bridi kits, which did not show any washout in the wing at all.


Ed Cregger

Capt. Bill

It is has been 23 years since I built a Bridi Super Kaos Jr. but I don't remember any wash out. I still have the plans and they don't show any. Of course the Kaos has a dual tapered wing, ribs are smaller front to back and top to bottom. I do know the Southern R/C Bobcat and assume also the Tiger Tail had wash out but they had sheeted foam wings and the cores were cut with wash out.

P.S. Flew that 23 old Kaos Jr. today.

Falcon6667

washout???I have been doing this for a few years an off an on I here guys talking about this. I just finished a 40 kaos its dead straight. it fly's great..what would wash out do to better this?
Falcon

pimmnz

Nothing, the Kaos wing is both of low enough AR, small enough taper and blunt enough not to need washout.
Evan, WB #12.

stuntflyr

The swept leading edge essentially acts as washout as the tips are slightly behind the root. During pitch changes this adds a slight angular difference, and makes the "washout" work both during inside and outside maneuvers.
Chris...

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

I had a Tower KAOS arf years ago, my first really successful glow powered RC plane. I've wanted another one ever since.

Just got a set of the RCM plans for the Super Kaos, and the parts kit from Lazerworks.

Has anybody built this lately that might have some suggestions? I'm thinking about an OS 55AX and air operated retracts.

crashlander

My Feedback: (10)

I built the same using the Bridi plans and the short kit from Lazerworks. Short kit was very good. I glassed and painterd mine using automobile urethane enamel and clear coat, great finish. All up weight (dry) came in at 6.5 lbs (not bad) for a retractable trike.
Check the location of the engine firewall if not using the hardwood mounts. If using a composite engine mount, check the location of the firewall with respect to the engine you are using. I followed the plans and it turned out my engine mounted about 1/2" too far forward. This was the only issue. Make sure you balance according to the plans.
I used a B&D pneuatic retracts, they work great.
Put the air tank in the rear, servos by the wing mounting screws. The OS 55 is a light engine, so the battery may have to go up front. I put a ST .61 and my battery pack is just behind the servos inside a compartment.

Good luck with yours.

Crashlander

astropuppy

My Feedback: (23)

Bob, You'll really like the Lazerworks short kit. Mine went together without a hitch. I added was a bulkhead midway in the wing saddle opening, justified because I didn't put the wing fillets on. Since I choose a fixed trike gear configuration I used one dowel for the wing hold down. Enjoy your build, I did.

handglider

My Feedback: (23)

I was digging thru some old pictures and found this shot of one of my old Super Kaos 40's. This is from the late 80's. With the old SuperTiger 45 on macs pipe. I built 4 of these and flew them at the old "Briar Patch" field near my home then.

I scratch built these from the original RCM Super Kaos Jr. plans. I have also built a number of Ultra Sport 40's - I always thought the Super Kaos Jr was a better flying plane than the US.

Those where good times.....



enjoy

RHarding

My Feedback: (3)

I built and flew the original Bridi Kaos with a Super Tigre blue head 60 back in the 70's and absolutely loved it. About a year ago I got a Utter Chaos from Bluejay Airplane Kits. The airplane is finished and, even if I say so myself, it is a beauty. Up front is a Super Tigre 60 blue head that I dug out of my collection. It weighs 6 lb. 4 oz. I was really looking forward to bringing back some good old memories, however ***************. The airplane flies fair except on final it is really hard to keep the wings level. Once they start rocking, it's time to add power and go around. I've rechecked CG and lateral balance. Added some tip weight to the light wing and that seems to help a little. I don't see any warps in the wing. Could I be getting tip stall? I think I remember the original Kaos as having some washout. Don't see anything mentioned in the Bluejay instructions. Any way to add some washout to a wing that has been completed and covered with UltraCoat? Any suggestions from anyone would be appreciated.

Richard

crashlander

My Feedback: (10)

I don't know if it can be done with Ultra-Cote.
Try to twist the wing by moving the LE down and trailing edge up by about 1-2 degress max. Then re-heat the covering where it has saged. Must do to both sides and be accurate.
I believe though this will not last very long and could be more trouble than its' worth. I don't remember any Chaos or Kaos that called for washout. It will negate the entry into spins and affect the snaps.
I believe your problem may be that you are slowing the airplane too much to the point where it is beginning to fall out (or stall). just add a little power when landing and get off the elevator.
Contro, your descent with power and not elevator.

Just my $.02 worth.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Nope, no washout. Not needed. However, you could reflex both ailerons "up" a tiny bit and see if that helps.

I am assuming that you checked the wing's incidence and it is where it is recommended.

My Utter Chaos 60 was identical in landing characteristics to my Kaos 60 and Super Kaos 60. I was surprised that those models handled so similarly in spite of the differences in airfoils and layouts.

If you are using a modern day prop size, that is, high diameter with low pitch, try using an 11x7 prop as used in the good old days.

A wee bit of tail heaviness can also cause this low speed wallow. Move the flight battery forward a skosh if all else fails. Good luck.


Ed Cregger

smacfe

Try drooping your ailerons about 3 turns on each aileron clevis. If you still have the problem then you are waaaay tailheavy.
Scott

matt13

Drooping the ailerons would be adding effective wash "IN", and if you think it is wing tip stalling, that would make it worse!. As the earlier post said, raise the ailerons a bit for effective wash "OUT"!. I think, however, try two things, 1/ on a flat bench, place the wing and measure the tip distances to the surface, both trailing edge and leading edge, any difference will cause an un- even stall. 2/ and most probailly, add some nose weight and fly again, it seems like it is too tail heavy. Good luck. Matt13 (with too many drinks tonight)

matadco

My Feedback: (1)

I just completed a Bluejay Utter Chaos with an OS 61 FX and Rom tri-retracts. It weigh out with momocoat covering at 6.6 lbs. Just wondering what the weight should be. I haven't flown it yet but had to add 21 grams to the tail for balance. This is the first pattern I have built so know very little about weights. Should be able to get trim flight once weather cooperates.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

Now, install the radio and tell us what it weighs then. <wink>


Ed Cregger

RHarding

My Feedback: (3)

My Bluejay Kaos (Choas) has a finished weight of 6 lb. 4 oz. I'm still tweeking on it and it is flying better but still not like the old Kaos of the early 70's. I raised the ailerons 2 turns and that helped the most so far. The CG and lateral balance is ok. Wing incidence is "0" to the stab. Engine has some down thrust and slight right thrust, but don't know how much of either. Ed, sounds as if you and I started modeling about the same time. I'm thinking the original Kaos of early 70's had considerable down and right thrust. Do you remember? I started U/C about 1952, full scale in 1958, (16 years old) and R/C in 1970.

Richard

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I don't have the plans in front of me, but the original Kaos had a wooden crutch engine mount that did utilize side and down thrust. It is my suspicion that the habit of designing for reed sets was difficult and got included even when proportional was finally available.

I flew control line in the late fifties and had my first R/C flight and model in 1966. But I didn't really get going well in R/C until 1969, when I got out of the USAF and had a real income available to buy toys. As you know, R/C was really expensive in those days. A four channel proportional set would/could cost you a months wages when working at a good job back then. Only the dedicated few were flying R/C back then.

We must live in different gravity wells. My .46 powered planes seldom come in at less than six lbs. and a .61 powered plane seldom comes in at less then seven to seven and a half lbs. all up weight. I'm talking about models that are capable of flying straight up or straight down at full throttle. Not some little puff of a model that hovers on its own prop (I could wipe my nose with those). Try flying one of them straight down at full throttle and it will explode before you travel very far.


Ed Cregger

matadco

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks guys, speaking of down thrust on the engine. When I mounted the engine it did have down thrust, I would guess about 8-10 degrees. Of all the kits I have built, I never had that noticable amount of down thrust, so I figured I miss aligned the fire wall to the fuse. To correct I added a 3/8 bolt, about 3/16 thick under both sides on the front of the engine. This took out the down thrust in the engine and it appears to be streight now. My question is should I take the bolts out from under the engine and re-establishing the down thrust or leave the down thrust out? Other then that all appears ok, just waiting for wind to die down below 60MPH.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Here are details from the plans.

David

matadco

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Raindave, 3 degrees is about what mine had after looking at your plans. I re-read the instruction booklet but there was nothing mentioning either down thrust or right thrust. I don't think I have any right thrust or if I do it has not been corrected. As stated I added a couple of 1/4" bolts, about 3/8" thick which may have given me a slight up thrust, no more then 1 degree at most. I really can't remember why they put down thrust in modles. I understand right thrust to off set the rotation of the prop. If I recall down thrust had something to do with elevator trim to hold level flight especially when powering up. Maybe some real smart guys can explane down thrust so an olddumb guy like me can understand.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

A lot of designs from the '60s and early '70s had a tiny bit of positive wing incidence when using a symmetrical airfoil (like the Kaos) because theoretically a symmetrical airfoil produces zero lift at 0°. As you surmised, the down thrust was intended to counteract any tendency for the plane to pitch upwards when full power was applied (because of the positive wing incidence. As you know, the right thrust was to counteract engine torque from turning the plane to the left. I think a lot of people now build the Kaos set up 0-0-0 and use radio trim and mixing to solve any trim issues.

David

wyotitan

Hi all just scored a super caos at our swap meet. I put a old enya 60 w/tuned pipe and a radio in her the last few nights. all looks good but i think its a bit heavy. 8.5lbs ouch is that to much and where is the CG on a 60 super caos thanks