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BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

Old 02-17-2007, 11:24 AM
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jetmech43
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

Had an XLT too, but seemed like the Escape flew better mine did anyway, but I would build snother XLT, maybe I should put myself on the waitng list
Old 02-17-2007, 11:39 AM
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Paternguy
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

The XLT and the escape are two totaly differant airframes. The Escape/Great Escape were evolutions of the Deception and the XLT was an evolution of the UFO.

I got this info directly from Joe Bridi. I called Bridi a few years before Joe retired and to my surprise, Joe answered the phone. I took the oportunity to ask some questions about these two planes and he described the evolution. The UFo started out as a Bridid design and the the Deception was a Kimbro design, he modified both to meet the demands of turn around pattern.
Old 02-17-2007, 12:00 PM
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Atlanta 60
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

Paternguy...Thanks for explaining that...I was going to ask the difference between the XLT and Escape/Great Escape...

they "look" very similar to me...

Have Fun...

Chuck
Old 02-17-2007, 12:01 PM
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rainedave
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

Interesting ifo, Pg. I never knew that.

Just for a visual comparison, here're the two side by side. You can definitely see the "UFO" nose and fin shapes in the XLT.
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Old 02-17-2007, 12:34 PM
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grcourtney
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

so tell me how the escape and xlt are different having both sets of plans and having built a few of each myself, given very very slight differences in the tail shape and the horizontal, wing tips I see no difference in the airplanes but i could be wrong it ain't the first time



gary
Old 02-17-2007, 12:58 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

I'm probably wrong about this, but, as the name implies, the Deception was a pretty close rendition of a Bridi design to begin with, wasn't it?
Old 02-17-2007, 12:58 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

I will take a quick shot at it. Just based upon the obvious visual cues. It does appear that the two share the same wing and stab root airfoils. With out talking to Joe again about the similarities, I have to assume that when he did the math for both birds he came up with similar numbers. After looking at both of the planes side by side, they are very similar, which is to be expected. I will change my ascertain that these are completely different airframes, as they do appear quite similar side by side. But I don’t believe they are the same bird with do different tail assemblies, there are some differences too.

1. The escape has more stab area.
2. The XLT has more wing area, not nearly as much taper.
3. The XLT has a longer tail moment, actually pretty close to the Great Escape.
Old 02-17-2007, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

I fixed the XLT plan in my post above so we can see the tail moment better.

The scaling was off. I made a new composite with the correct scaling:
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Old 02-17-2007, 01:11 PM
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grcourtney
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

joe bridi numbered his kits as I am at work and don't have the plans in front of me I beleave the xlt has a lower number than the escape

that puts the escape as the refined version of what ever joe was after.?.



gary
Old 02-17-2007, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

That could very well be. It may also be that he started at two differant places to get there. As I said earlier, when I spoke to Joe he indicated that these two planes evolved from earlier designs that were distinctly differant. The UFo and the Deception were very good flying aircraft on their own. I think he was just trying modify these desings to fly the turn around slower and smoother than the preceeding airframes would.

Now get back to work before I call your boss. LOL
Old 02-17-2007, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

By the way of the two I always found the Escape to be much smoother and precise.

But the UFo is still my favorite one.
Old 02-17-2007, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

The only knock to the bridi kits is using the majority of the wood in the kit the plane tends to be on the heavy side substituting for copetition balsa and glue disipline helps but that is something that most kit builders learn as they go.


gary
Old 02-17-2007, 02:07 PM
  #38  
cllaurit
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN


ORIGINAL: grcourtney

joe bridi numbered his kits as I am at work and don't have the plans in front of me I beleave the xlt has a lower number than the escape

that puts the escape as the refined version of what ever joe was after.?.



gary
The XLT came first then the Escape.
Old 02-17-2007, 02:09 PM
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F.Imbriaco
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

I built a Tower Hobbies version Bridi Trainer 60 in the early 90s. It was my first symmetrical wing R/C ship and I really dug it's classic lines . One of the better flyers at the field approached me about flying it, which left me totally puzzled. He had a 1/3 scale gas Lazer which made me wonder all the more. After a few laps, he did a series of beautiful rolling circles with my Bridi Trainer. I was in total awe of his skill and this model's aerobatic potential. I wonder how many of today's trainers have that capability ?
Old 02-17-2007, 04:56 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

ORIGINAL: grcourtney

The only knock to the bridi kits is using the majority of the wood in the kit the plane tends to be on the heavy side substituting for copetition balsa and glue disipline helps but that is something that most kit builders learn as they go.


gary
Yeah...I only learned moment's ago...When you said it...Thank you for the information!!

Someone had mentioned in another thread about my Escape for me to "Build Light"...

I was Thinking...No Problem...I always drink Bud Light while I build...

Now I see what they meant...he he

I wonder if I cut down on the Bud Light...Maybe I could "Build Straight" too??

Have Fun...

Chuck
Old 02-17-2007, 05:46 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN


ORIGINAL: Paternguy

That could very well be. It may also be that he started at two differant places to get there. As I said earlier, when I spoke to Joe he indicated that these two planes evolved from earlier designs that were distinctly differant. The UFo and the Deception were very good flying aircraft on their own. I think he was just trying modify these desings to fly the turn around slower and smoother than the preceeding airframes would.

Now get back to work before I call your boss. LOL

-------------------


I built and flew a Bridi rendition of the Deception in 1982. The box said that Jim Kimbro was the designer. Bridi kitted it, but from what I could tell, did not design it.

It reminded me of a P-47. It was heavy, predictable, stalwart, but not very refined. Of course, someone elses version may have been completely opposite.


Ed Cregger
Old 02-17-2007, 06:27 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

ORIGINAL: Paternguy

The XLT and the escape are two totaly differant airframes. The Escape/Great Escape were evolutions of the Deception and the XLT was an evolution of the UFO.

I got this info directly from Joe Bridi. I called Bridi a few years before Joe retired and to my surprise, Joe answered the phone. I took the oportunity to ask some questions about these two planes and he described the evolution. The UFo started out as a Bridid design and the the Deception was a Kimbro design, he modified both to meet the demands of turn around pattern.

I did mention that the Deception was a Kimbro design. LOL
Old 02-17-2007, 09:19 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

Just a few more insights into what the Deception and Escape designs produced.
Jim Kimbro produced a successor to the Deception called the Double Vision. Never kitted and I don't think plans were ever commercially available. Wing and stab looked the same but the fuselage was considerably streamlined. The wing was located pretty much on the thrustline in the middle of the fuselage like the venerable Eyeball design. Jim disappeared from pattern a few years after the Double Vision, but has recently resurfaced and is flying in the FAI class out in Southern California (not with his own design when last I heard).
Bill Cunningham modified the Escape to produce the Great Escape. He then designed the Malibu which was an further refinement of the Escape. Inverted .60 and some other changes it looked very similar to the Dash-5. He flew that version briefly before jumping on the 4-stroke bandwagon with a slightly larger version of the the Malibu. I think R/C City may have kitted it (somebody did). By today's standards the 4-stroke Malibu was pretty small.
All were great flying airplanes. I built 5 Dirty Birdies including one which I modified to have a swept wing (terrific rolling airplane) and 5 Deceptions with various modifications all of which flew great. The Deception was pretty basic in the Bridi tradition - box fuselage (lots of sanding) with foam wings. Easy to build!!
Ahhhh, the good old days.... :-)
-Will B.
Old 02-17-2007, 10:09 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

Interesting, my copy of the Escape plans have had the Cunningham mods penciled in by the original owner. Until Gary's post above, I didn't know what they were.

I've been tinkering around with the XLT plans that I have. I re-attached the severed tail and traced the airfoils in CAD and then exported them back into my TIF file. If anyone wants a copy (tif or jpg), PM me your email address. It will be a pretty big file, like 3 or 4mb or so.
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:32 PM
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jetmech43
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

I just got an email from BlueJay and they said the XLT was on hold, and they where comming out with the Escape and the Great Escape in the futrure, but they didnt say when
Old 02-20-2007, 02:29 AM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

Jetmech:

One thingh is sure for me, you guys are lucky to have answers from bluejay, I tried to get in touch with them many times, I've send them no less than 9 e-mails, but never got an aswer from them to know if the deliver international.

I wanted to buy an xlt , at the end I declined and asked a fellow from the forum to send me the plans of the kaos 40 wich I'm building now.

If I ever travel in the next years to U.S.A. sure I will try to order one before I get back to the sunny beaches of MĂ©xico.

Regards.

Rafa
Old 02-20-2007, 08:11 AM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

Some further background on the Deception: In the construction article Jim Kimbro said that the Deception was influenced by Rhett Miller's Compensator design. In particular, the wing airfoil is the same. The double taper of the wing with more sweep on the leading edge was a compromise between rolling and vertical tracking in loops. The taper of the fuselage was done to help with knife edge flight. The Deception was flying just prior to the end of 1976 (and so is SPA legal) making it only slightly later than the Super Kaos design (1973). It is interesting to see Bridi's convergence of the Dirty Birdy/UFO/XLT series with the Escape/Great Escape designs. Form follows function and the designs will tend over time to common factors which work well - at least for a specific designer.

Jeff

Cessna N9214G

Super Kaos, Deception, Tipo, Escape
Old 02-20-2007, 10:18 AM
  #48  
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

Rafa, with all the folks here in Texas, I'd think you could get someone to help you out with a Bluejay kit. I'm not sure if you live within a day's drive of the US, though.

Too much free time. I put this together last night (yes, I enjoy goofing off with Photoshop). Note how high the stab is on the Compensator.
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

David :

Wish I lived a day drive away to the border, but I'm over 3 days away not sure but someday this year I'll be traveling to U.S. and will try to get in touch with this guys before I go , so the kit may be delivered there, at least that's what I hope.

Take Care.

Rafa
Old 02-20-2007, 11:30 PM
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Default RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN

It's been a while since I thought about the Escape, but I know when I bought and built mine, a popular modification was to make the fuselage a couple inches longer from wing TE to the tail in order to give it a slightly longer tail moment. I know that's the way mine was built. Perhaps it was seeking to mimick the longer tail moment of the XLT? I know my Escape flew great. Still have it, too. If I were to fly it again, though, I might be forced to put a decent covering job on it and lighten the airframe a little bit. It flew great, but it was a lead sled.

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