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Hanno MKI and MKII

Old 12-12-2007, 12:19 AM
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Default Hanno MKI and MKII

Was curious if anyone could enlighten us on the difference between the Hanno MKI and MKII...I have wondered about this for a while...It's not that big of a deal...I'm just sorta curious and I know there are others with the same question...I had searched previous posts in the past and came up kinda dry...flywilly?? Anyone??

I have three Hanno's...I believe them to be MKI versions...Mine are all ABC...They all have the 6p carburetor and I see no noticeable internal or external differences other than the "color" or "tint" of the aluminum which I attribute to age and use...I have serial #4111, 4492 and 6810...The sn 6810 engine's case is much lighter color than the others...But it is also very low time and the others have Allot of time on them so I assume this would account for the difference in color??

Mine are used eBay engines and I only got one box...It has a part# 17806 sticker on it and is labeled "Hanno Special"...I have looked at the Tower Hobbies website to determine the 17806 should be the MKI engine...

My understanding is the Hanno II was available in both an ABC and a Ringed version...I have seen photos of the Hanno II and the box looks and is labeled different than mine...

Tower Hobbies lists the engines as:
17806 - 61RF RC HANNO
17841 - 61RF HANNO RING MKII
17843 - 61RF HANNO MKII

The OS Engines "Discontinued Parts" list only shows two part numbers (17841 & 17843) and just list them as "Hanno Special"

Like I say...It's not a big deal...I was just curious and I think there are others who would like to know...It seems like a popular question as of late...

Here is a photo of "My Babies" From Left to Right is#4111, 6810 and 4492 (aka: My Pink Head Hanno...he he)

Thanks for the Help!!

Chuck

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Old 12-12-2007, 08:25 AM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Hi Chuck,
I'll try to have more information later, but for now:
serial # 6810 is a MK II Hanno (I'll bet the 'ABC' version); the other 2 are MK I versions.
Based on serial numbers I've seen, I think there were about 6,000 MKI versions produced. I've never seen a serial number above 7000; so os may have only produced 1,000 MKII engines (both versions).
HELP from the rest of you Hanno owners: please post your serial number and version of the Hanno - THANKS!

-WIll Bartlett
Old 12-12-2007, 11:36 AM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Wow...Very Interesting Will!! Only 7000 total engines...1000 MKII's...I can't get over that...

Thank You...

Chuck
Old 12-12-2007, 04:29 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Hi Guys,

I have serial numbers: 3133, 3197, 3329

Leo
Old 12-12-2007, 06:24 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Thanks, Leo
Old 12-12-2007, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Hey Flywilly,
I have #2843
Old 12-13-2007, 04:51 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

THANKS!

Keep 'em coming!
Old 12-15-2007, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

OK, here's what I have so far:
MK I: 0011(RCM); 0248; 0584; 0681; 0705; 0715; 2596; 2602; 2686; 2693; 2778; 2843; 2865; 2969; 3097; 3106; 3133; 3197; 3329; 3349; 3412; 3438; 4111; 4117; 4302;
4460; 4492

MK II (ring): 6306; 6307; 6556

MK II ABC: 6696; 6713; 6756; 6784; 6810

I'd be interested to hear from our international friends, too!
Old 12-15-2007, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Very Kewl Sir!!
Old 12-15-2007, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Heres a MK11 RF (17842) residing in London UK

Cant find the serial number, where is it located?



Unfortunately after years of ultra reliable, loyal service, earlier this year I had a battery fail and it went in on full bore (soft grass) tearing the main needle out of the side of the carb. So if anyone has a spare carb body, I would love to hear from you

Its the 6P carb

Jason
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:16 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

6p's are hard to come by but you can run a 7L, it may require some pump adjustment or pipe adjustment,

gary
Old 12-15-2007, 06:09 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

The serial number is embossed on the left mounting lug - 4 digits.
Old 12-15-2007, 06:41 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Hmmm...nothing on mine, its got GK and made in Japan on the right side but nothing on the left?

Could the crankcase have been replaced at sometime with an older RF Pumper? was it the same crankcase?
Old 12-15-2007, 07:19 PM
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gene webber
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Ok boys, after removing my Hanno from my Desire (which ain't easy) I found #2847. Now this won't tell us the differences between the MkI and MkII, but I would still like to know the big secret betwixt the two. I know there was an ABC and ringed version with the vast majority being ABC, I've never seen a ringed version in person. In fact the ABC versions were notorious for the liner plating peeling off and sometimes destroying the whole engine. I know, because I had two that did it with one requiring new bearings, piston and liner and the other requiring everything but the crank, pump and carb, other friends had it happen as well, but I will also add I have a friend who never had so much as a hiccup from his...go figure. The fix for my Hanno was a Shadel piston and liner...never had another problem, reliable, bullet proof and tons of power...simply amazing.

I do know there are differences in part numbers for the major parts between the RF-ABC-P and the RF-ABC-P Hanno Special, I have copies of the original exploded view diagrams of both of these engines as well as the 6P carburetor diagram. If you would like a copy of these send me a PM with your name and address and I'll get a set to you N/C.

Hope this helps in our quest for knowledge of the infamous and almighty Hanno Special....

Gene
Old 12-15-2007, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Hi Jaycey,

You may have several scenarios going on with your engine I'll try and cover them for you.

1. Yes, it is possible the crankcase was replaced with a regular RF-P version crankcase.

2. Read my post above, if you had a piston liner failure and the engine was sent for repairs it may have destroyed the crankcase and was replaced with a new one which will not bear a serial number. There are no part numbers cast or stamped into or onto the crankcase that would verify what it may be, ie. between the Hanno and regular Rf crankcase that I am aware of.

3. It could be a RF-P with a red Hanno head, 6P carb and 2 line pump. But I doubt anyone would go to this trouble unless they had several busted up engines laying around and decided to make one engine out of the good parts.


No, the crankcase is different between the RF-P (part#2781010) and the RF-P Hanno (part#27801020), I believe the difference is in the exhaust port exit/header flange area as the Hanno had different shaped exhaust porting which was wider and the case is relieved in this area for better flow. If you guys are interested in some of this stuff I have a RF-P and RF-P Hanno and could dismantle them both, take photos and post to this thread. But I need a few days, as time is at a premium right now.

Gene
Old 12-15-2007, 07:55 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

I didn't realize that one of my engines fell into the MKII serialization until our resident detective (flywilly) pointed it out...I have had each of my engines apart separately but never two at a time...What I'm gonna do is take two of them apart and give them a good looking over...

The differences I have heard (speculation) of are:

1) I heard the pump and carbs were different between the MKI and MKII...I dismissed this as the both appear to be 6p carbs and the PD05 Pump assy...Now I suppose the pumps may be set-up differently?? or have some internal differences?? (I'm not going to disassemble a pump though...I don't wanna ruin it)

2) I heard the cylinder head and possibly the crank timing were different ?? I think we can take a look at that...Nothing stood out while they were apart separately....Maybe a side by side comparison would show a difference??

3) I thought I heard there may be porting differences between the two??

About the only thing I have noticed is the "color" or "tint" of the aluminum crank cases which I attributed to age or use...But what is a little odd is the well used engines are both MKI's...And the aluminum on both of them has a "marbleized look" to it...I suppose it could be a result of fuel over time...Not sure I can show it in photos but I'll try...I have a couple of RF-P's which were also high time engines...They don't exhibit the same"marbleized look" ???

Do any of you all know of any other supposed "Differances"?? If so please report...

Could the crankcase have been replaced at sometime with an older RF Pumper? was it the same crankcase?
The Hanno crank case is a little different than the RF-P's...I know the exhaust port area has some relief to match the Hanno liner...

I read on eBay where a guy had a liner failure...He sent it back for warranty work...They replaced the case during the process and he said that replacement didn't have a serial#...I wonder if your engine was ever sent in for that type of work?? Do you remember??

edit: Haa...Sorry Gene for doubling up...

Good Stuff Fellows!!

Chuck

Old 12-15-2007, 08:19 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

No problemo Chuck with the double-up, that's whats cool about this hobby, everybody trying to help each other.

In fact, the guy on Ebay with that Hanno was me.

I'm starting to get many requests already for those exploded view diagrams I mentioned in an earlier post. I was going to respond to each one, but that could take a lot of time. So, give me a little time and I'll get you all covered, promise.

Gene

Old 12-15-2007, 08:29 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

ORIGINAL: gene webber

In fact, the guy on Ebay with that Hanno was me.

Gene
Ohh how Funny...I had no idea...Small World...

I think the fellow who got it is lurking around here too...

I'm cracking up...lol


Old 12-15-2007, 10:17 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Gene,
It might be faster to post the diagrams here. As for the crankcase differences - they are dimensionally the same. The exhaust port is relieved for the hanno. The early RFs had a smaller rear bearing, but that is only apparent if you take the engine apart.
I have run lots of different combinations of OS parts (as well Shadel parts). It is pretty easy to relieve the exhaust port on the stock case with a dremel tool.
Can you post some photos of the exhaust porting in your engine?
My first YS AR only lasted 55 flights before a catastrophic crash. Bent the crank and deformed the case. I sent the engine in for repair; it was returned with a short note: cheaper to buy a new one. I found one well used for $100. Rebuilt it with all the good parts from my crashed engine (piston and liner were still virtually perfect) and ran it for a long time without a hiccup - still have it!

Will Bartlett
Old 12-16-2007, 01:01 AM
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gene webber
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Hi Will,

I'm not sure if it would be faster to post on here or not, I'm not a real big computer brainiac...lol...

Believe it or not I have a brand new in the box HP printer, scanner, copier and fax machine I haven't put into service yet, maybe it's time to get it up and running.

Yes I can do photos, do you want photos of the crankcase exhaust port or do you mean the liner exhaust port?

Tell you what, give me a couple days as Sunday's and Monday's are stacked up with things I must do. I'll do a photo layout and see if I can get the exploded view diagrams posted as well so this info will be available for everyone. Just keep in mind I'm no be all, know all about everything Hanno, I'm in tthe dark on some of this stuff too, but what I do know I'll share with all. I can say that I have run these little power houses back in the their Hay Day with outstanding results. I dug-out the old Desire last year after sitting for 13 years and fired it up, it ran like clock-work, they are great engines.

Stay tuned, more to come...

Gene



Old 12-16-2007, 06:38 AM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

Hi guys, just can't resist to chime in here. Last year I did some research on the Hanno and after following your interesting discussions I'm now wondering if you are aware of all the information that IS available.[sm=what_smile.gif]

I mean the [link=http://www.osengines.com/]www.osengines.com[/link] website run by Hobbico. Watch the small link [link=http://www.osengines.com/history/ostimeline01.html]Manufacturing Timeline Gallery[/link]! In [link=http://www.osengines.com/history/ostimeline15.html]1989-1991[/link] you'll find "1989 61RF ABC Hanno Sp" and in [link=http://www.osengines.com/history/ostimeline16.html]1992-1995[/link] the "1994 61RF Ring Hanno II". I'd take that only for a hint, though (see the following).

Click the small link [link=http://www.osengines.com/parts/index.html]Parts Lists & Manuals[/link] at bottom of page. Now a more visible link to [link=http://www.osengines.com/parts/discontinued.html]Parts Listings for Discontinued Engines[/link] appears, immediately showing "Old Two-Stroke Airplane Engines" with two Hanno versions among them. Bingo![sm=regular_smile.gif] But wait! Look at the item numbers: 17841 - 61 RF-P "Hanno Special" and 17843 - 61 RF-P Ring "Hanno Special". And look at the item number Jason showed on his Hanno box (post #10 above). Bummer![sm=confused_smile.gif] I'll leave the speculation to you.

The good point is that you may view pictures of many parts of the Hanno engines, though unfortunately not all (e.g. especially the crankcase is not individually depicted, but there are the pictures of the whole engine). The 6P carburetor seems to be Hanno Special special [sm=wink_smile.gif] and is shown complete. But on the Parts Listings page is a link to a [link=http://www.osengines.com/parts/carbs.html]Carburetor/Engine Cross Reference[/link] page leading to a parts listing of the 6P. There is no manual and no drawing, neither for the Hanno nor the 6P.

Some of you will already be aware of the information given by Hobbico. My interest is a mere technical one. I wanted to have a Hanno Special as a collector's item, but the prices on fleabay were too high for me (I'm cheapscate). Instead, I just bought an O.S. 49 PI rotary engine new at a discount because they were discontinued.[sm=teeth_smile.gif] But I have some data for the Hanno from an older German book.

There's a diagram showing thoroughly measured performance data (WOT power, torque, noise, over rpm). The measurements (and the book), dated 1990, come from our former German engine "guru" and should be (very) reliable (referring to the word "scientific" in the other thread[sm=49_49.gif]). They were done using what I would call FAI fuel: 18% oil and the rest methanol (MM 100). Oil was GLISSOL-R/AEROSYNTH, which is a synthetic oil. AFAIK, there are two kinds of synthetic oil, ester and polyglycol. The author of the book co-developed GLISSOL-R as a polyglycol mixture with additives. He claims (and was ready to prove) that this oil doesn't need Castor and that it's especially suited for high-performance ABC or AAC engines (read Hanno). They would last out not only a few hours but up to 200 hours under racing conditions.

It's emphasized that the Hanno needs up to 20 hours run-in time and that a soft mount should be used. By the way, glow plug was Enya #3 for the measurements. They were done with different propellers and different lengths of the original tuned pipe (peak performance between 9000 and 14000 rpm in steps of 500 or 1000). So he got several points in the power-over-rpm diagram and connected them by an envelope going up to 1.4 kW at 14000 rpm. Using a fuel with 15% nitro and only 12% oil would increase power by about 0.08 kW (6%). Stock tuning by O.S. was for 9500 rpm giving 1.05 kW. I wonder what you guys may make from these figures.[sm=49_49.gif]

Maybe I could scan the diagram and post it here but maybe you just don't need it. The fuel/oil thing might be interesting though because it could clear up the mystery of the vastly different service lives of the engines. Just my 2 Eurocent thrown in.

B.
Old 12-16-2007, 07:35 AM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII


ORIGINAL: UStik

The fuel/oil thing might be interesting though because it could clear up the mystery of the vastly different service lives of the engines. Just my 2 Eurocent thrown in.

B.
That is my main concern. I'm getting a worried about running this without any parts around. I called Dave Shadel the other day trying to see just how firm he was about ending the run of the piston/liners. He sound pretty covincing to me. He said he sold out in two weeks! You would think he would make another run of them since they Do sell. I guess his profit margin just isn't high enough to justify it anymore. I here he's going to build a street car. In that case, I can't say I blame him..... I just wish I had one of his kits.
He did tell me the timing on the RF is exactly the same as the Hanno. The only difference is the exhaust port.

DM
Old 12-16-2007, 12:23 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

To your relief, there's already much information in the threads here, you just have to join it. Let me try:

The Hanno is a high-performance engine, made for FAI fuel without nitro. Run on racing conditions with very good fuel/oil mixture, it will last out up to 200 hours - only. So you'll want to use a fuel with very clean methanol and a quite viscous synthetic oil with additives. The cleannes avoids residues, the additives neutralize acids and avoid corrosion, the viscosity makes for more robust lubrication. There is a "conservative" type of CoolPower meeting this specification (17% synth oil, rest methanol).

You may use a lower-viscosity oil for marginally more performance at the cost of a lubrication less forgiving of wrong needle/tuned-pipe settings.

You may use nitro fuel as well for a bit more performance (remember: 6% from 15% nitro). It was already said that you'd need a head shim to reduce compression. Generally accepted seems to use not more than 15% nitro without a shim, or you would lose a precious engine by burning it internally. Using nitro for smoother running requires only 5% or even less.

The Hanno was made for 9500 rpm what the original tuned pipe was set for. You may run it at higher rpm for more power (remember: 1.4/1.05 kW) but that would mean more stress.

You have to choose a suitable propeller for the rpm you want, that's what the figures posted in the other thread are good for.

You have to tune the pipe to that rpm. This can be done by measuring in the first place but has to be fine-tuned. The bigger the prop (diameter/pitch) the lower rpm and the longer the pipe. Start with the length given for the rpm intended PLUS a safety margin. A too short pipe will destroy the engine (by blow-back of hot exhaust gas), a too long pipe only gives less power.

Always set the needle on the rich side. External cooling is scarce so internal cooling is needed in addition. Better waste some fuel than burn the engine.

You think the Hanno is oversensitive? You should see the rotary engine! It's on the limit in every respect and it's actually not possible to run it reliably. The Hanno is an engine for competition - it has to be reliable. It's only not fool-proof because it's not a complete drive set including not only engine and tuned pipe but also propeller and fuel.

It's your choice. I assume you'd prefer a conservative setting, say 9500 rpm and FAI fuel with viscous synthetic oil, pipe and needle always on the safe side (and a soft mount). You'd have a reliable engine with enough service life for the few times you'd use it. You might even trade some service life for more power if 1 kW is not enough for you. Just stay on the safe side of settings.

That's only the summary of various posts here, I didn't add anything. I could add a link ([link=http://www.aerosynth.de/pages/main.html#download]AeroSynth information[/link]) and a thought: If you bought a used engine it might be advisable to dismantle it and clean the parts (including ball bearings). Otherwise old oil and residue could be detrimental when the engine is run with different oil.

B.
Old 12-16-2007, 06:23 PM
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Jeff Worsham
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII


ORIGINAL: navav2002

ORIGINAL: gene webber

In fact, the guy on Ebay with that Hanno was me.

Gene
Ohh how Funny...I had no idea...Small World...

I think the fellow who got it is lurking around here too...

I'm cracking up...lol


Yes! I'm the guy who with Chuck's help decided to buy Gene's engine, and then Gene gets on here to add info which helps us all understand a bit more about the engines that we all love! Funny how that works- with common interests we end up hanging out in the same place. Boy lots of new Hanno info here for this Hanno Rookie to digest...thanks to all that are sharing their knowledge/experience!

jeff
Old 12-16-2007, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: Hanno MKI and MKII

OK...Since this is turning out to be such an informative thread...I decided I might as well post my list of saved bookmarks which I've come across during my Hanno research...There is allot of great information in several of them!! Maybe some of you may find it useful as well??

Here Ya Go:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3130299/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_932269/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4594043/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4920850/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5253039/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2078463/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1797885/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1358410/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4648552/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4594043/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4178005/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4012407/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3563723/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2136916/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1797885/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_932269/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1671131/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1619541/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1412115/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1294714/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1286696/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1115452/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1046732/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_974053/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_963948/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_966879/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_494676/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_379327/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_356518/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_106846/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_52490/tm.htm

I know..I know...I'm a nut..

Have Fun...

Chuck

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