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Peppermint Pattie build

Old 07-16-2008, 07:22 AM
  #26  
eroc144
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

I can't comment on SPA issues, but I like option #3 best.

EG

PS - Unless you're landing on rocks or a dry, mowed hay field, no wheels won't be an issue. Truuuuuuuuuuust us!
Old 07-16-2008, 01:29 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

The current SPA rules are if it looks like a duck it is a duck.. Which sucks for the designers and builders like myself.. All the planes I'm putting out out direct copies to the plans.. not stretched for the bigger motor or other options.. Several years ago it was a 3% rule.. you could make minor changes.. now if it has a remote outline and is prior to 12-31-75 it is legal.. no retracts..

several planes currently being built are not even close to the original..

food for thought !!

scott
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Yes we have SPA planes !
Old 07-16-2008, 07:09 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Which kind of makes the strict cutoff date meaningless.

David
Old 07-16-2008, 07:44 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

good point... might run that by Mickey.. I think we need to get back to the 3% rule.. but nobody wants to police the contests..

scott239
Old 07-16-2008, 09:28 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

I don't mind minor variations. Stretching the fuselage or the wings doesn't bother me. Heck, I'd even like to change some of the area numbers of rudders, elevators and ailerons a bit. But eliminating rake to the rudder hinge line is going to far for me. Changing the rake angle would be fine, as long as it still resembles the original somewhat.

I doubt if any of us could suggest a perfect set of rules that would please everyone - or even themselves, if you know what I mean. 8>)


Ed Cregger
Old 07-18-2008, 05:10 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Hi,

Considering your comments I included version 4. If it looks like a duck it is a duck. And it still has some rake angel.
Would it pass as SPA legal?

Marian
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:47 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

If I might discuss the purpose of the rake angle for a moment....

A rudder hinge line tilted back serves the same purpose in Knife Edge as an anhedral stab. That is, it adds a component of "up" elevator when the rudder is applied. Most planes in KE pitch to the belly, this counteracts that tendency. A secondary advantage, which is not so important now that we have proportional radios, is the extra up helps spin entry. Look at the early pattern planes, Taurus, Perigee, etc. They all had intense rudder rake angles.

That's why I put it on the PPs. But the nice thing about this hobby is you can do what pleases you, modify your build, experiment, whatever. So enjoy your own rudder and have a "one of a kind" PP to enjoy.
Old 07-18-2008, 02:25 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

And that came from the progenitor's mouth. <G>

Thanks for reexplaining the purpose of the rake angle, Nick. I knew that once upon a time. Now it has been refreshed.


Ed Cregger
Old 07-19-2008, 06:32 PM
  #34  
Marian
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

WEDJ, nice to see you here.
I have thought that the rake was only for estetic reason.
Knowing the real reason, I will not change the rake angle.

Marian
Old 07-19-2008, 10:16 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Please do not change your mind just because I commented. I think experimentation is a good thing.
Old 08-11-2008, 06:39 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Hello,

Summer is not the best time for building.
Being back from holidays I thought where should I continue: rudder, turtle deck, servo instalation ... and decided to experiment with engine cowl. I say experiment, because I have never made a fiberglass cowl before.

As this is my "first time" it is not error free.

I decided to make it in negative mould. First I put two layers of thick paper over the nose of the fuselage (I want the cowl to be wider that the fuselage to make it possible to slip it over). Then I glued a blue foam block to the fuselage. Before I trimmed it to the correct lenght.
Then I cut it with hot wire following paper on the nose of the fuse and then sanded it (still glued to the fuse). After separating it from fuse I added aprox 1 cm of foam for overlap and again: sanding, filler, sanding, paint and at the end clear waterbased polyuretane (to make it harder).
Then I applied wax as separator before covering the foam model with plaster.

Then I "thinned" foam with acetone. All painting applied previously to the model converted to a kind of elastic balloon containing a thick solution of blue foam and acetone.

I applied wax as separator to the plaster mould and fibrglased the cowl.

PROBLEM: the wax I used is not the best solution. I did not work perfectly and I had to break the plaster mould. [&o]

Anyway: the cowl is finished.

Marian

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Old 08-12-2008, 12:54 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build


ORIGINAL: Marian
Anyway: the cowl is finished.
Marian
Great work Marian im going to send you a couple cowlings to fix , for what i see that cowl may be a little heavy isnt it?
Old 08-12-2008, 03:24 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Hello Rafa,

Good observation: this cowl weights 35 grams (but on the other hand is so strong that you can crack nuts with it ).
If I need some weight in the front to correct CG, I will use it. Otherwise I will make another one. It is an oppotunity to master this technique.

But on the other hand ... I am saving some weight on the fuselage. Planking should be made from 3/8" (aprox. 10 mm) balsa. Instead of this I used 10 mm only in corners and 5 mm in the central part.

Marian

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Old 09-18-2008, 01:11 PM
  #39  
Marian
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Peppermint Pattie . . . I just wanten let you know that this project is NOT dead.

I have finished the planking of the deck and the next steps will be instalation of servos / linkage and adapting of the front upper part of the fuselage for the muffler.

I consider to use material called Vlies for covering. It is poliester fabric (similar to Koverall: as adhesive can be used dope, and it is heat shrinkable). But this one is non woven.
It is better for smaller planes (the weight is 24 gr / m2 vs. aprox. 42 gr / m2 of Koverall).
I had good experience with it on .25 size models: more resistant than Oracover, no wrinkles nor problems with unglued corners ...
But more work than with Oracover (dope, painting, ...) anyway, I am not in hurry.

Are there any colour photos of the original PP?

Regards,

Marian
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:01 AM
  #40  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Very nice build. I don't have a color photo of the original, but here's one of it's .60 size brothers.
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Old 09-19-2008, 08:17 AM
  #41  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Marian, you might have to cover that with natural, un-dyed silk and clear dope. That's really beautiful work.

David
Old 09-20-2008, 01:23 AM
  #42  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Que hostia tio !!!! it looks just great keep info coming, hope you can fly it soon.

Saludos.
Rafa
Old 09-20-2008, 08:21 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Marian,

That looks great. Makes me want to start on my PP 15. I just need more time......
turbo
Old 09-21-2008, 07:51 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Please do not write such things to me or i'll blush like a tomato ;-)

In fact I interrupted this project for a month or so. I built one airboat and one foamy plane. But they are related to PP.
Don´t you believe me? I ´ll explain:
When Scott made foam cores for PP´s wings available, I was very courious because I have never used them. It would be a little bit nonsence to purchase them from USA because the postage cost would kill the deal, so it led me to build my foam cutter (I spent some nights on electronics forums) and pulley system.
I have bought a block of extruded polystirene and was ready to cut. But the question was: What? The balsa wing for PP was already finished.

I let my kids decide: my son (8 years old) decided that he wants an airboat and and my daugter (5 years) has choosen Lazy Bee.

These two creations has nothing to do with pattern planes, and yet, for me they are related to this build.

Marian

PS:
Congratulation on Ryder Cup and sorry for Davis Cup ... ;-)
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:17 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Marian, that's wonderful. Sharing your hobby with your children has to be one of life's best gifts.

I built plastic models with all three of my kids when they were little. One at a time, of course. Now my oldest (age 15) is into RC cars, the middle son (age 13) has a Sr Falcon he flies with me, and the girl (age 11 - going on 18) is doing a doll house with me.

Not to apologize for relation to pattern flying. Part of being a part of this forum is to get to know the people you type out messages to!

Here's shots of Doll House and Son w/ rc car
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:47 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Marian,

that is a neat lookiing foam rib wing, It will be interesting to see how it holds up. The cores that I make a solid and are made out of 3/4 virgin foam and then sheeted with contest grade balsa.

Shipping outside the USA is not a problem, there are several options.

Stay tuned.. there will be some more plane shortly.

scott anderson
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[email protected]
Old 10-02-2008, 05:24 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Hello,

The only thing I have made is the space for muffler. I know that I move too slowly, but I enjoy a lot this plane. Turbo.gst: If you like PP, go for it. It is very nice design and the build can be a prety straight forward. It just me that I sometimes unnecessary complicate things. I mean belly wheel, cover of the fuel tank space, covering it in a traditional way (dope etc)

Rainedave, I am not sure if I understand what "un-dyed silk and clear dope" mean. But if it mean to not use colours for finish ... NO WAY. You do not know me ... I have five dioptries and I would hardly be alloved to pilot this fast plane eved if I paint it in fluorescent red and yellow :-)

Scott, it is good to know there is a cheap way how to send foam cores to Europe.

WEJD, I see that you are doing fantastic job not only as a modeller, but also as a father. Your words made me think about my relation with kids ... First I wanted to attract my son to the world of RC planes. Maybe it was too soon, but he did not liked the noice of glow engines. So I build electric plane. It was better, but I felt that he did not enjoy it. I realized that he is not interested in planes at all (The funny think on this is that his best friend is crazy about building planes since he visit my workshop ...) Anyway: I am trying to find some another activity how to spend time with my son. I do not want that his "best friend" would be Play Station.
He liked the boat a lot.
I like the idea of Doll House. Wow, yours is impressive. I think, that your daugter will remember it for the whole life. Could you give me links to the forus where I could find more info? How would you compare it to a build of RC plane: What is more complicated?

Marian
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Old 10-02-2008, 05:41 PM
  #48  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Marian,

fantastic work! The end of a build always seems to take long - but one must savor the moments. Sometimes I have done the unacceptable where I finish building something and then don't make it flight ready, ...leave it unfinished or something gradually getting nicked and banged as its moved around - very bad!

I look forward to seeing your progress. Madrid... now there's a place where you can always get a great meal after a day's flying... any day!

By the way, that looks like a .15 size RE engine! I hadn't quite gathered the scale of your project. What kind of exhaust system is that? and what kind of engine is it? I may be asking what's already been answered, my apologies if I am. After dinner I'll take the time to read your entire thread.

Felicidades! David.
Old 10-02-2008, 06:37 PM
  #49  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Marian,

Your children will seek their own enjoyment. As a hobby, modelling can be many things. Railroads, ships, plastic, carving, etc. Myself, I also do ship models, but none of the kids are interested in that. You expose them to a lot of things, and they choose what interests them. I agree that Nintendo should be less important.

I don't visit dollhouse forums, this was just a kit that my wife found at a garage sale ($5.00 - it's worth about $75). It is much easier than airplanes. All parts are plywood, pre-cut and tab and slot assembly. The work is in painting and finishing, mostly.

Your PP will scream with that engine. You are doing a nice job.



Yes, savor the moments. My Perigee build took 11 months.
Old 10-03-2008, 08:12 AM
  #50  
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Default RE: Peppermint Pattie build

Photos of ship model
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