crankpin

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Gary - Thanks for that picture.

Vince

8178

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Looks like the nose gear is a tight fit.

pitstop000

My Feedback: (26)

Nice Gary, and the designer himself Don Lowe holding the plane.
That's so great!

pitstop000

My Feedback: (26)

Vince (Crankpin)
Were you able to find anything on the flying stab? I checked those sites you recomended, no luck.
Does anyone have any info on the flying stab? The only thing I have found out was the Bob Violett
design that was used in the Sequel and the Shrike. Was this the unit that was intended to be used
in the Phoenix and others of that era?

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

Sent you a PM.

grcourtney

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Tail dragger.

gary

extragiles

does anybody know if the p7 tail is the same as the p8

djr1007

George Truett recently did a run of P8 kits and I was able to get one of those, which I recently started. Fiberglass tube, foam cores, and a set of plans and instructions that assume your not new to this type of kit. George and many of these forums have been very helpful though and I'm sure I'll have no problem (except for the fact that I sheeted the wings first). That is going to make the retracts a little more difficult, but I figured my dremal router should work ok. I also saw an article on retract installation in which you install a plywood rib on either side of the mounting box. It looked like a very good idea to distribute the force on landings. This means I'll have a 1/8" groove to fill, but I intend to glass and lacquer this plane anyway (another skill I just learned, sure wish I was in this sport back 20 years ago to learn this stuff). There are VERY few of the old time builders around here, it's a shame these skills are being lost, that's partly why I've undertaken to try and learn them. These forums are great, but it would sure be nice to have someone around I could actually work with and apprentice with.
Like crankpin, I've got a rossi 60 with the power pipe, and my spring airs are on the way.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I plan to do a build thread of my Phoenix 8.

I am going to begin sheeting the horizontal stabs this weekend. Planning to use 1/16" balsa for the sheeting. Got my list of wood together for the wings as well.

I'm waiting on the header and pipe for the TH .75. Thats going to be another week or two. I hope it doesn't take much longer than that.

I purchased (5) NIB Hitec HS-525MG servos in the RCU marketplace today. They are about 57oz torque at 6V. I think that will be plenty for the elevators, ailerons and rudder on this plane. If it's not enough, the servos can be re-geared for more torque with 545 gears. That would slow them down, but increase torque to 76oz. I don't think it will be necessary. Waiting on those servos to ship. Hopefully they will be here next week.

Servos:
http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-525bb_high_speed.html

I figure one per aileron, one for the elevator and one for the rudder. Thats 4. I know I could use a torque rod and get by with one servo on the ailerons. I never cared for torque rods and I may want to use aileron differential to help with roll. Might want to use flaperons for landing. I just like the option of a 2 servo wing.

I will most likely purchase these Robart mechanical retracts:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMJK2&P=0

And 2 of these servos:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=JRPS791

I'm not sure how to connect the horizontal stabs to the fuselage. Do you just glue them on? Doesn't seam real strong to do it that way. Foam sheeted stabs butt glued to a fiberglass fuse?

Also not sure about a dihedral brace for the wing. I can't see the wing being that strong by just butt gluing the panels together and adding some glass. Is that really all there is to it? Sure seams like you'd want to cut a slot in the wings and add a 6" x 1/4" hard plywood brace to the center section. Something...............

I'm sure the questions will continue......................

I'm off to the LHS to buy sheeting. The kit is foam wings, stabs and a fuse. Thats all I got right now. Can't complain, it was free!![8D]

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

Here is a couple picture's from the P-6 thread. I am sure a lot of builder's know this, but to some that don't, you can slot the root end of the wing halves, before or after skins. Usually 1/8" or 3/32". Six or eight inches each side. Then when joining the halves, the one half would have had the braces, (spars), epoxied in and cured on one half. Then, just epoxy in, and slide the other wing half together. You can punch a few holes in the foam, not deep, so epoxy will seep in, and cure end to end, connect both just a little.
There should be a little diehedral in the half's. Make the spar accordingly. Do the same to the stab. On foam wing center sections, I always glass it with marine resin and cloth. Then the pan will fit over top. By this time, you should have the wing bolt wood in the fuse, drilled and tapped.
Crank

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

RCP,

to ammend Cranks post, you'll need to insert the built and joined stab into the fuse. Stab halves, unless designed and installed as flying stabs (with the required tubes and linkage), can't simply be butt glued on to a fiberglass fuse. Not only would you have a weak joint but in all likelihood they would also be uneven as it is rather difficult to match the two sides.

Before joining your stab panels, use the root of them to mark precisely the position of the cutouts in the fuse. You can then check your marks directly by measurement on the fuse. Typically if your stab is tapered, the chord at the junction point will be less than at the root. Marking the size of the cutout without the LE attached yet typically produces a cutout of the appropriate chord. When your stabs are then joined with LE on them, they won't pass through the fuse at the widest point since the cutout is smaller than the root chord. To remedy this, you sand flat the LE of the stab which will be inside of the fuse thereby producing a constant chord from stab center to junction with the fuse sides.

Typically, the center joint is also reinforced after being epoxied together at the correct flat or anhedral angle (many classics had anhedral but rarely dihedral) with glass cloth and resin at least out to the width of the fuse at the stab position. This, of course, is done before permanently attaching the stab to the fuse. The additional thickness due to the cloth also makes for a snug fit in the fuse cutout which is then faired into the fuse with fillets using an assortment of different materials (e.g., resin and micro balloons).

Many build threads in this forum show this procedure.

Cheers, David.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

WOW!! Thanks for those pics and details Crankpin. [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Here's a couple new pics. $50 worth of balsa.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I got it figured out. Talked to the LHS owner. I will bury a small spar in the wings. He suggested a 12" long x 1/4" hard plywood brace buried in the wing. He said to locate it about 50% back from the leading edge, since that's where most of the stresses would be because it's a tapered wing. Makes sense.

He also suggested a 1/8" thick spar in the stabs. He said to make it about 8" long and bury it in the foam.

I am planning to cut the foam out for the braces. Basically cut out a dihedral pocket. Then I will sheet the wings and stabs. When they are done, I'll slip the dihedral brace in and epoxy. Just like a bARF wing.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Are you guys glassing the wings and painting? Or using plastic film?

I was thinking about using some very light glass or maybe even panty hose to prepare the wings and stabs for paint. I figure if I'm going to paint the fuse, may as well paint the wings and stabs too.

grcourtney

My Feedback: (1)

I fiberglass the wings at the center and used no spar. I have never had a wing fail.Remember to build light the p8 can be built in the 7lb. range anything over 8lb. the plane will suffer performance.


gary

moenl

I would advse you to enlarge the rudder about 50%, as it lags rudder response during stall turns,(you have to lead it), otherwise, I wish I had it!! good Luck!!!

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Servos arrived in the mail last week.

The tuned pipe and header for my TH .75 has shipped from Macs. He said he bills the CC during the shipping label process, so I have to believe it's been shipped.

The retracts have been ordered and are on the way. ETA.... maybe next week or the week after that. Trying to steal the retract servos on fleebay, but not having much luck. They must be a popular servo because I see them on that site all the time, but people are bidding them up to 90% of retail cost. I've never understood why anyone would bid up an item to almost retail price on an auction site. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif] Spend the extra $5 and get the warranty.

50% increase in rudder size seams like a LOT. [X(] I'll be sure and take a look at that during construction. I may increase it a little, but still think 50% is an awful lot. Thanks for the heads up.

I've decided to glass the wings with finishing resin and .56oz cloth. Sig part # SIGGF007 (38x76) or SIGGF008 (38x72). It is a lightweight cloth and should do the job. I'm going to use Great Planes finishing resin:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK304&P=7

I used this resin on some built up floats that I glassed last summer. Turned out nice. This resin is very thin and penetrates the cloth instantly. It dries enough to trim excess in about 3 or 4 hours and sands pretty easy after an overnight cure.

I'm working on a 40 size 3D profile kit right now. Waiting on parts for this pattern ship. Should be starting the build in the next 3-6 weeks. Can't wait to get started.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Retracts:
The Robarts look and feel cheap. I have decided to put them aside and use them for a different project.

I think I will get these retracts instead:
http://www.3dxhobbies.com/Mechanical..._p/buz4060.htm

Now for the configuration question:
Do you guys think it will mess up the "classic" pattern look of my P8 if I move the mains forward and use a tailwheel instead of trike gear?

Modern pattern planes are using fixed mains with wheelpants and taildragger setup. I know, thats a modern pattern ship.

It sure would make this P8 a LOT simpler without a steerable and retractable nose wheel. Personally, I LIKE taildragers and actually swore to NEVER get another trike plane again. But this old pattern plane had me thinking about going ahead and doing it. Thats how you build a classic pattern plane, right? Trike gear.

When I voiced my concern about the Robarts and showed these new aluminum retracts to my friend, he asked, "Do they sell the nose gear too?" Well, no. So thats when he said, "Slap a tailwheel on it and move the mains forward."

If you have any opinion, PLEASE comment. I'm agonizing over the decision to break the mold on this plane and use a tailwheel. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

REALLY complicated? Retractable tailwheel!!!

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

Go for it.

Crank

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

No no. Not wheelpants. [:'(]

Retracts on the mains, just moved forward to the leading edge. And a fixed tailwheel.

Taildragger Phoenix 8

Yes? No?

Tarred and feathered for even suggesting it? [:-]

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

See the finished product.

Crank

FLAPSDOWN

Does anyone know where I might find some Phoenix 8 plans or a kit. I read on another thread Precision Aero Composites no longer produces glass fuselages and have sold the molds to someone else. I also checked out the RC Modeler and Model Airplane News plans services with no luck.

I have a thing for vintage pattern planes. I flew mildly competitive in the mid 70's when I was 12 - 15 years old. I have kits and completed planes of the Dirty Birdy, UFO, Tiporare, Curare, and an Atlas. I'd love to add a Phoenix 8.

Thanks a lot.

Bill

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

Flapsdown - What about a Phoenix 5 ? They are available from Wing Mfg. It would be a good start until you locate an 8. You just missed a NIB old stock P-8 on another auction site. The Wing Mfg. P-5 is in the $200.00 range. You have to watch the auction site's regularly, then bid high as you can afford to capture one.

Crankpin

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Look what I got today!!

Already had the engine. I'm talking about those 2 shiny aluminum tubes. [8D]

The tube sticking out the backplate is for my Cline regulator. I've already had this engine hooked up and running on a Cline for about a gallon of fuel. Broken in and ready to go. I need to mount this setup on a test bench and buy about 6 or 8 props to test it and get it ready to bolt into the airframe. I'm not going to bolt it into the airframe and then try to cut the header down and do the testing. I'll do it all on a test bench.

Thanks to David at Macs Pro for the pipe and header. He got it built and shipped out in less than 2 weeks. [sm=thumbs_up.gif] Nice piece of work.

stuntflyr

There are some good retracts out there and it only takes a little fiddling to make the nosewheel stuff and get it to work. I would make it a trike gear. Like this Tiporare...
Chris...