jmb52760

Hello All,

I'm interested in creating a CADdrawing/model from the rather beat-up plan that I used in the build thread "Deception Rescue".

I did search RCU to make sure that I'm not duplicating effort, but didn't search beyond. Please let me know if this is wasted effort.

My intention is to create a faithful copy, and produce detail drawings of the wing templates and parts to assist a scratch builder. I would offer the digital versions at no cost to the Classic Pattern community.

I would like to use this thread to show progress, gather interest, and answer any questions that come up.

Mitch

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

That sounds like a great idea, Mitch. I'd suggest that you also make a laser cut file (like the one below) while you're at it.

David

jmb52760

David,

Will do. Please share any info about preferred format. I can output to DXF, or IGES. I can also convert to other formats but it's a pain.

Mitch

jmb52760

First step is to get the wing and horiz airfoils. I assumed that these are naca symmetrical foils. I plotted the coordinates for a naca0018 and scaled the length and thickness to match the plan.

When I print these out and compare to the plan, they are pretty close but not an exact match. The naca foil is thicker at the nose than the airfoil shown on the deception (Bridi/Kimbro) plan.

Does anyone know exactly which airfoil is used on the wing and stab? If it is custom, I'll have to measure points off the print.

PatternPilot (Scott): what about the cores that you offer. I think it would be greatly beneficial to make them the same. What airfoil did you use? Did you simply use the plan as a template?

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

please remember that short kit to RTF versions , electric or glow Deceptions are from www.rcfoamy.com

http://www.rcfoamy.com/page5.html


scott

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Mitch, looks like Scott just saved you and everyone else a bunch of work!

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Finishing up a deluxe short kit now and going to start 2 - E- versions, Ready to cover as soon as the new load of wood arrives..

scott

jmb52760

Scott,

I was not aware that you were offering cut parts, Ithought it was just cores and the canopy.

My effort was intended to compliment yours, not compete.

Mitch

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Mitch,

Sent you a PM....

That's cool... see the PM and we can chat some more.....

scott

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Mitch,

Don’t give up your idea! It’s great one. Take a look at the discontinued MK kits. There are some real hot items there.

jmb52760

Scott and 8178

OK, so now I'm officially in search of a worthwhile project.

I like the looks and flying style of the Deception and the SPA legal stuff, so it has to be close to that but I'm willing to consider.......

A good choice would be an aircraft off of CASniffers thread that has PDFplans but no detail part info.

All: Any suggestions?

8178

My Feedback: (17)

jmb52760

I did complete the horizontal stabilizer design as I need it for another project.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Scott,

this is great news!

If Imay comment, I think the impression (at least the one Iget) from your web site is that you offer flying surfaces either as raw cores or sheeted with LE and TE applied. Any further work would be custom. If you are able to offer a production short kit including any CNC or laser cut parts that are required in the build (not that many - but there are a few), it would be great to see that info on your site. Ithink a number of builders would enjoy the now "classic short kit" consisting of fuse parts (sides, formers, retract plates, tank floor, maybe even fin and rudder) along with cores (maybe with cut wells and possibly also with a plugin wing option - I know, that's another story) and canopy leaving the builder with only sheet and stick balsa to purchase.

Of course, as you know, seeing some info on the scaled down versions would also be of much interest to some...

David.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Quote:

ORIGINAL: rainedave

That sounds like a great idea, Mitch. I'd suggest that you also make a laser cut file (like the one below) while you're at it.

David

Mitch,

great initiative on the Deception! Ithink your project would be a worthwhile effort particularly if there was a need from Scott. I'm not sure to what extent he has been able to make progress on the reduced scale versions but a CAD plan along with a laser cut file would simplify that effort I would imagine. Of course, Scott will have further input on that front (also see me post above).

David,

Aside from the great modifications you made to JB's Escape plans (which I actually haven't seen), Iwas wondering whether you had done any further work on the project (i.e., a laser cut file)?

Another idea would be to produce a laser cut file for JB's Escape. My feeling is that there is a certain amount of interest in this aircraft and to my knowledge no one is yet putting together a short kit. Producing a laser file with CAD plans might assist the excellent and very skilled short kit producers we hear more and more from. Just an idea.

I always wondered to what extent the Escape was influenced by the Deception. The design concept is very similar (moments, planform, wing/stab position wrt to the thust line, etc.)

David.

P.S. Where's my good old RCUfont!? There's YouTube stuff here now but Ican't use my old font which I found easy to read...

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Mitch,

I've been asking myself that question for some time. As you can see from the plans (and attached photo), the airfoils are quite funky. Ihaven't been able to ascertain whether they are symmetrical for a starters (although I presume they are) but the wing does have a diamond like shape at the root which transitions to a more standard non-diamond shaped tip airfoil. The maximum thickness at the root is also not reached in the first third of the chord but rather close to half way along the chord. The stab also has a different airfoil from the wing.

I've wondered whether JK intended these to purposely be unusual airfoils (perhaps non documented) or whether they were supposed to be standard airfoils that suffered from mid 70's hand drafting. Knowing to what extent JK thought about his design (as documented in his article), I have to venture the former is correct. It would be helpful if JK himself could clarify that question. Perhaps a PMto him might be in order.

David.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Rhett Miller's Compensator and Gator Flea both share an airfoil similar to the Deception's. They have a sort of flat section just back of the LE to the high point, almost like a softened diamond. Here's the GF root airfoil for comparison.

Yes, I'm working on the Escape. I've drawn in the Cunningham tail and the former locations so far. One thing that I make sure of is that the wing saddle/fuselage side represents the correct station along the wing and not the root (I hate it when plans mistakenly depict the root profile at the fuse side). The green line on the wing plan view shows the true chord at the wing saddle which is shorter than the root. You'll also notice that the stab looks like it's a bit forward from the original location. This is because the rudder hinge line is raked.

David

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

David,

most interesting. There must be something to this airfoil then. Iwonder if JK could englighten us.

Nice going on the Escape. So Iimagine you expect to produce a laser cut file eventually too? If it's of any help, I 'll be picking up a kit sometime in July and could provide any specific measurements if needed. Ibelieve the plans speak for themselves though.

What was the motivation for the changed tail layout?

David.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Here's the original thread where Bill Cunningham posted the details and approved my drawing.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_82...tm.htm#8251507

David

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

I believe the reasoning behind the diamond stabs of the day was that it softened the elevator response, like having a little Expo. Maybe they were trying to do the same thing with their ailerons. Who knows.

David

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Here're the belly/nose/spinner mods.

David

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Hi All,

Been a long weekend on duty and one more night to go then make some balsa dust Anyhow... AsI explained to Mitch in a PM there are alot of variables in doing a complete short kit with the formers and other parts. Most SPA guys are going to use the OS91 4-stroke engines and that requires you to make the fuse a bit wider than the plans call for, the BPA guys are going to run Rossi orothers and will need a bit of work also.So for a true scratch builder this has not been a issue.I haveasked Mitch to contact me of list at my private email so we cantalk about some Deception ideas andsome of other planes.

Just got another rescue call, got to run... will do more later.


scott

teamvortex

My Feedback: (6)

Scott,

This is Rich from Brooksville.
OK, what's the status and specs on the electric version of the Deception? I can't ever have enough Deceptions in my inventory.
Foam or built up?
Estimated final weight?
Recommended power and batteries? Watts? Prop?

Rich
TeamVortex

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Rich,

We are working on them in between other orders... I'm waiting for another load of wood, and have started to figure out battery hatch etc....

I will say the wings will be 3/4 pound virgin foam sheeted, and all contest grade wood...

I know there is not answers to your questions , but I will keep you updated...

scott

[email protected]

Good evening Mitch
I was chatting with my dad on a new project and he mentioned the deception as a plane that he had always admired but never had time to build. He's been an avid builder since the 50's and has made many beautiful flyers from plans or scratched out ideas. I was wondering how I would go about getting a set of those plans, you see winter is quickly approaching and we need a project. Any help or insight you could give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Shenandoah