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TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Old 01-22-2010, 06:02 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

...
Old 01-22-2010, 07:14 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

I believe that MAN or Model Builder or Model Aviation did a constuction article.

MAN July 1979.

Ray
Old 01-22-2010, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Would you happen to have a copy of this article? I would sure appreciate it.
Dave
Old 01-23-2010, 07:27 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Sorry I don't Dave. I built one years ago and lent the plan and magazine to someone who never returned them. Fortunately I made a copy of the plan should I ever want to build another.

I modified mine slightly ( fin & rudder shape) to make a Pace Spirit version. Beautiful flying model with an OS BGX engine. Sold it to a friend who lost it to the infamous underground spin manoeuvre [&o]

I also would like the article scan if anyone has it.

Ray
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:11 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

TOC Zlin 526...

Rusty's elves Laser and Foamy have received full size plans and have a preliminary game plan for the foam and laser cut parts. I will hopefully meet up with my contact to access the custodian of the original canopy and cowl molds at E-Fest next weekend.

Both the Zlin 526 and 526 AFS (shorter wing) will be offered. The "E" version is the easiest to provide interchangeable wings. The "E" motor package was selected based on the model engineers at Great Planes and will provide a very inexpensive motor/speed control combination. The price of Lipos continues to decline with the "Zippy" brand providing incredible value. I have not tried this brand but after a discussion with Laser an AMA Nationals Masters Champion with "E" power...they will be the first set for the MAN Akromaster and the Zlin.

The goal of this project is to provide a cross-over class for our pals in IMAC as well as a real challenge for the classic pattern and current pattern crowd. The sub-$700 airframe motor/speed combo could be very popular and the selection will be the MAN Akromaster, Lowe/Bonnema Zlin 526. If I did not have (2) Bridi Dalotels I am sure there would be one of these as well.

Thank you for your interest.

If you have an interest in a "Beta" version of the Zlin parts, please let me know.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Classic TOC Class...2011!!
Old 01-25-2010, 03:54 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Rusty,
I find this thread on the Zlin Z-526 very interesting.
I am considering this plane (AFS version) for a future IMAC project, although at a larger scale than what you are making.
(Probably 2400-2600mm, electric.)

I wonder about the scale accuracy of the Bonneme/Lowe model. Comparing the pictures in post #1 and plan in post #6 to the 3-view drawing presented by UStik in post #7 and yourself in post #8, the Bonneme/Lowe fuselage design seems very thin. (It could of course just be an optical illusion.)
Do you konw who produced the 3-view drawing that you and UStik presented, and how accurate it is?

I also have a IMAC rules definition question.
The IMAC rules says:
"Scale shall be determined by the wingspan. A change in wingspan will become an overall change in scale. Fuselage width, height and aircraft planform or any other variations shall not exceed 10% of scale, width the exception of airfoils and size/shape of control surfaces within the scale outline rule."

I know that in IMAC, as well as in TOC, it is (was) common to alter the LOCATION of certain items, such as lowering the tailplane (e.g. Hanno Prettner's Dalotel).
However, how do you determine how much you can move these items, within the rules? (If the wingspan is 2000mm, can you move an item 10% of this, i.e. 200mm? Unlikely I think, but one can not express position as a percentage value of the wingspan. The rules are not very clear on this point)
I would be greateful if you or anybody else who might know, could clarify this.

Regards,
Magne
Old 01-25-2010, 10:27 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Magne,

I was just dealing with this sort of % departure issue myself for the TOC CAP 21 project. The way I see it, is that the departure is in relation to the "positional dimension" for location and "absolute dimension" for "size". In other words, if a 1/4 scale span of the Zlin happens to be 80", then one can make this wing anywhere between 72" and 88" and be within the IMAC/TOC rules. On the other hand, for the location of horizontal stab as an example, the percent deviation for its location would be in relation to the total height of the fuse at that location. One could in principle move it from its position both vertically and laterally (horizontally) a maximum of 10% of the local dimension. So, if the fuse is 5" tall at that position, one could relocate anywhere between 4.5" and 5.5" of the scale location.

But this is my interpretation of the rules and I just interpreted them loosely for appearance sake without actual concern for an aircraft tht would qualify for IMAC or TOC (the 21st century version! ;-)

In other words, my interpretation is pretty dang loose!

David.
Old 01-26-2010, 02:45 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

David,
Thank you for your input.

I agree with you on the interpretation of the absolute dimension.
(Although it is actually the other way around, you decide which wingspan you want, work out the scale from that, and this scale factor will determine all other dimensions, including fuselage length, width, height, wing chords etc., because "Scale shall be determined by the wingspan."
However, the requirement for positioning is more difficult. I am absolutely not saying that your interpretation here is wrong, but I am not convinced that it is correct either.

So, if the fuse is 5" tall at that position, one could relocate anywhere between 4.5" and 5.5" of the scale location.
By this I assume that you mean that the tailplane can be moved up or down 0.5" from the true position? Maybe, (in which case a lot of todays ARF's used for IMAC would not be legal). However, the fuselage height itself could also be increased or reduced by the same amount, +/- 0.5".
(To complicate matters further, the fin is a part of the fuselage at the location of the tailplane, so the true height here is not 5" but 16", can you then move the tailplane +/- 1.6"?)
However, if you use the same logic for longitudinal positioning, then it becomes more difficult (and meaningless), simply because the numbers are bigger.
Assume that the fuselage, true scale, is 80". Based on the 10% interpretation you could then move the tailplane back or forward +/- 8", which is significant.
(But you may already have stretched the fuselage to 88", in which case you could move the tailplane forward 8.8"? If this is the correct interpretation, then you could certainly make some funny looking planes, and make virtually any scale object look like the newest generation F3A model.
(Please note that I am not trying to be sarcastic here, this is a genuine attempt to try to understand how to interpret the rules, which in my opinion are not very clearly written.)

Magne
Old 01-26-2010, 10:24 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Magne,

I had the feeling that my casual interpretation might lead to such considerations. Again, without actually trying to interpret IMAC rules (which I'm not familiar with), I think deviations have to be with respect to the reference dimension - which should be scale.

If you have an 80" fuse and depart 10% you would then, as you say, have an 88" stretched fuse. Any longitudinal dimension departure using the fuse length as a reference should be done prior to stretching. In other words, your reference dimension is still 80" not 88". If not, you just end up with a cascading scenario where you have a model which looks more like a flying bus than a scale model.

However, another way to look at % departure for flying surface position is with respect to their own dimensions. Rather than taking into account the scale fuse height (which has nothing to do with the fin height in my opinion) at the wing/stab location you could use the surfaces dimension to allow positional relocation. You could then depart 10% of the max chord thickness (at the fuse side if you will) in vertical position and 10% of the max chord length in horizontal position. Granted, relocation of 10% of a 2" max chord thickness might bear little relation to what is done in IMAC but it will certainly keep things closer to scale. Of course, if you alter the dimensions of the wing/stab as well, you still have to consider their reference dimensions as those prior to alteration.

Of course, this is all pretty loose and its just a guideline I gave myself to prevent the design of a scale model that looks more like a bus. If the goal is to be IMAC legal, then someone with a clear understanding of the "loose" rules should be consulted - this is probably the wrong forum for that (although there might be a few IMAC pilots here but I doubt many).

By the way, note that the rule you quoted mentions:

"Fuselage width, height and aircraft planform or any other variations shall not exceed 10% of scale, width [sic] the exception of airfoils and size/shape of control surfaces within the scale outline rule."

In other words, airfoils and size of control surfaces can be changed without the 10% restriction but the scale outline has to be within 10% deviation. For this purpose I would consider the planform to refer to the scale 3-View of the aircraft. In particular, both the top view as well as the side view planform needs to be within that 10%. The front view strikes me as less of an issue with respect to maintaining scale.

At what scale are you thinking of building your Zlin? I haven't consulted the full scale specs of the Zlin so I'm not sure what scale a 2.5m span would constitute.

David.
Old 01-26-2010, 01:53 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

That would be 1:3.54 scale. The plans Richard Ferrier has on his website are all pretty accurate. Wingspan of the Z-526AFS is specified as 8,85m / 348.5" and TOW is 740 kg, engine power only 177 hp. By the way, here's shown a very nice Czech [link=http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=153930]kit[/link] scaled 1:4.33 and using the inner ailerons as flaps.
Old 01-27-2010, 04:32 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Wow, those Czech kits are really nice. Lots of scale details, particularly on the 258cm wingspan model. Way too much detail for me.
I am looking to make an electric model suitable for IMAC, so I suppose the best way forward would be to start with the Richard Ferriere 3-view drawing, possibly stretch the fuselage a little, and move a few details around. (Tailplane down and wing a tad up, of course all within 10% of somthing yet to be determined.) But still make the duck look (a bit) like a duck.
Thank you for your assistance guys.

UStik, do you have any other technical specifications for the Z-526 AFS, or a link to where I can find it?

Regards,
Magne
Old 01-27-2010, 06:15 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

[link=http://www.bredow-web.de/diverse_Flugtage/Zlin_Z-526/zlin_z-526.html]http://www.bredow-web.de/diverse_Flugtage/Zlin_Z-526/zlin_z-526.html[/link]
[link=http://www.flugzeugtechnik-gera.com/html/zlin-526_afs.html]http://www.flugzeugtechnik-gera.com/html/zlin-526_afs.html[/link]
[link=http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlin_Z-526]http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlin_Z-526[/link]
All in German.

That Czech model is lightweight above all! There's a French model as well (can't find it right now) but it's heavy.

[link=http://mcmodels.free.fr/]Here[/link]'s the French model (lower right corner of the page).
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:09 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Great, thanks.
Magne
Old 02-08-2010, 03:20 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema...progress report!

Original canopy and cowl molds...my search continues.

Wanted: Contact information for Don Lowe...he may have the molds?

Wanted: Color photos of the Zlin 526 flown by Steve Rojecki at the 1980 TOC...white, green and black. The canopy, cowl molds are available but nos specific drawings. Rusty's elf "Scanner" could probably scale up the Bonnema TOC Zlin to the size of the Bonnema 1980 TOC model.

Wanted: Beta kit volunteer. You will pay for a wet of foam wings/stab/fin/rudder/turtle deck, laser cut fuselage parts. Provide feed-back, complete a build thread on RCU.

I have seen "Laser's" fuselage CAD work for the glow version...looks very cool. "Foamy" is well ahead of schedule with the foam parts.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Old 02-09-2010, 04:55 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

ORIGINAL: BERUSTY
Wanted: Color photos of the Zlin 526 flown by Steve Rojecki at the 1980 TOC...white, green and black.
Do you mean [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8640418]this one[/link]? Ken says it's from 1982 even though the ad says 1980. Do you know for sure? See also posts #25 and #43. A bit different from the smaller 1980 model, but higher wing and lower stab (and less dihedral) than the original as well.
Old 02-09-2010, 06:19 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

This one I think.

Ray
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:39 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Yes, that's the ad you posted in #43 in the other thread. This ad says 1980, Ken said 1982 when he posted his color picture in post #22. I mean the paint scheme is clear now, outlines in the ad and colors in Ken's picture, but what's the correct year. Since Rojecki flew only demo he's not listed.
Old 02-09-2010, 02:12 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Bonnema TOC Zlin...the S. Rojecki demo model!

I talked to Ken Bonnema on Saturday and Sunday to see if he had the cowl and canopy molds from the 1978 TOC Zlin. He does not. He does have the molds for the 2-place, S. Rojecki demo model that Ken said was a couple years after the first model. To me that is 1980.

Addiditionally, RFJ the official RCU Classic pattern "Historian Emritus" provided the 1980 MAN TOC article which shows the photo from above...which was white, black and green...in the British Air Show layout.

All I need to do is get the original molds from Ken, have "Scanner" enlarge the 78' drqwings, get "Laser" to do the CAD work, sned the file to "Cutter" and "Foamy"...50 hours later...another cool model!

Thanks RFJ...come to the USA!

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Old 02-09-2010, 06:28 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

This ad says 1980, Ken said 1982
I was a bit reluctant to confirm the dates as I actually attended the 1980 TOC but don't remember seeing Steve's Zlin, but the ad is correct. He did use the 2 seat Zlin as a judge's warm up model in 1980. I think the reason I didn't see it was because these flights happened early, before the days contest flying began, and I was probably still asleep in the hotel after a long night on the tables of Vegas - what a place, what an experience - never again

He may have performed the same role in 1982 (there was no 1981 contest) with the same model - I don't know.

Ray

Old 03-03-2010, 01:00 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

I think you will find the following document quite interesting.

Nothing quite like getting a bit lost in cyberspace...

Apparently they might still be obtainable although not being laid up by Mr. H. himself.

David.
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Old 03-04-2010, 12:39 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Rich Lee makes them using the original molds. Email address is: richlee@directinet.com

As I recall he did all of Dick Hanson's glass work anyway. The kit (glass fuse, wing/stab cores) was $285 last time I checked.

I recognized my mother's handwriting on the phone number and remembered that is a scan of my dad's manual, circa 1988 or so. Thanks for posting it!
Old 03-04-2010, 12:48 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Indeed it is!

I unexpectedly came across it in a thread on the FG site. Thank you for posting it in the first place!

As far as you know, does Rich continue to make glass/foam kits of DH's designs to order? Does anyone know what models these include?

TIA, David.
Old 03-04-2010, 06:45 AM
  #48  
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Interesting document, thanks.
It says: "The model i scapable of world class F.A.I aerobatic flying"
I have considered the Z-526 AFS as an electric IMAC object, in a 96-102" size.
I like designing and building my own models, and this plane lends itself quite well to the combination of home built and electric.
It is also a bit different, unlike the common crop of Extras, Yaks etc.
But I am a little bit concerned about the flying charecteristic.
So for those of you with 526-experience, do you have any comments regarding this?
(It would be specifically for IMAC, not 3D)

Magne
Old 03-04-2010, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

Magne,

I think the people to talk to are the Czeck designers and builder of the two larger AFS Zlin's (or anyone who has built and flown one). They were specifically designed for electric power and extremely light.

For my part, I'm attempting to do something similar with the CAP 21 design albeit in a slightly smaller scale (~1:4).

As far as I know Rusty here on the forum has a GP ARF version which I don't believe has flow yet.

David.
Old 03-22-2010, 11:09 AM
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Default RE: TOC Zlin 526 by Bonnema/Lowe

TOC Zlin 526...Update!

In the true spirit of recognizing the fine contributions of my elves Foamy, Laser, Cutter...they are getting new titles. The titles will NOT conflict with the issues of "bonuses" swirling about and yet communicate my sincere appreciation of their contributions. (I stole these from Star Wars like...Master Yoda).

Foamy will henceforth be known as "Master Foamy"
Laser will henceforth be known as "Master Laser"
Cutter will henceforth be known as "Master Cutter"


Cowl: Master Foamy, is also quite a detective...he came across one of the original Zlin's and was allowed to borrow the cowl for the basis of a new mold. This is truly great news and will save many dozens of hours. I am in touch with a new elf called "Master Glass" to produce a limited number of epoxy based parts.

Laser cutting: Master Laser has the CAD work just about completed for both a glow (Webra .91 or equivalent) and "E" version. I expect the pricing to be similar to the MAN Akromaster which is about $90.00 plus shipping and handling.

Retracts: I believe the new E-Flite . 60+ size electric retracts will work quite well for the project. See photo below.

Time line: The original project goal was to have the project build ready by April and that looks to be on track. I am meeting with Master Foamy at the Toledo show in April to get the Zlin wing/stab/fin/rudder and turtle deck parts.

Volunteers Welcome: If you are interested in being a proactive participant in the Zlin 526 project let me know.

The Great Planes Zlin 526 has not flown yet. I am waiting for a little warmer weather and will provide a full report on the flap/aileron mods I made.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
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