Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

*Edited and re-named*

I am interested in getting a kit from Carolina Custom Aircraft, but cannot decide between the Brushfire and the Intruder. So I want some thoughts and experiences on these two from some of the guys who were there the first time around...

I would like to know how they roll, snap, spin, loop, etc. and how nicely mannered they are for landing. I am not too concerned with how fast they are, they are all really fast by current standards and will definitely be the fastest thing I have flown to date. Power will likely be a ST91 running with a muffler. Probably with taildragger fixed gear as well (ya listening 8178?:D) to keep things light and simple. I fly off grass and am not really interested in dealing with retracts for that...

Last, they are not for competition use, strictly personal enjoyment and satisfaction.

Thanks,
Mark

RE: Carolina Custom Aircraft Comparison
 

I’m listening! All I can say is that I built my second generation Cold Duck without retracts and after flying it, I now know it was a huge mistake. I don’t know what I was thinking when I did that but regretfully it is too late to fix it now. Modern retracts like Spring Air are practically fool proof.

RE: Carolina Custom Aircraft Comparison
 

Don't worry. I'll find a way to flub them up!

I suspect that I'll have to go the Spring-Air route myself. The price is reasonable and they always did have a great reputation.

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

The Brushfire was one of my all time favorite planes to fly. I built an S&W kit that was featured in Flying Models magazine as a kit review. Not sure how many they actually produced. I know Chris Moon produced a fiberglass version as well. I even have some old plans for the wooden version tucked away somewhere. I am pretty sure that Steve Rojecki was the designer. The brushfire was interesting in that it had a pretty tall and bulky fuse for its time. It wasn't the sleek missle like many of its time. It definitely fles slower than most. Much more like todays planes than the standard AMA pattern plane of the 80's. It's proportions made it one of the nicest planes that I have flown to date in as far as rolling qualities are concerned. Very predictable and easy to perform long slow rolling maneuvers. If it had a flying fault is that it was difficult to get to snap well. I heard others complain about the same thing back then. Since the drag is pretty high a strong power plant is needed. The standard 60's (before the long strokes) barely had enough power for tall maneuvers. I went to the Atlanta from the Brushfire and was immediately impressed by its ability to go vertical in comparison. Still I wish that I still had the brushfire. Perhaps with a strong OS or YS long stroke it would be real nice.

Good luck,
Stuart Chale

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Artisan,
I had the same thought about the "foolproof" comment. I can be an extremely ingenious fool some days...:D


Stuart,
Many thanks for the Brushfire comments. It may be a better choice for me, since this will be my first BPS (ballistic pattern ship) and the Intruder is on the smaller side, making it on the faster side as well. The Brushfire looks also appeal more to me most days. I plan on using a ST91 for power, and as shown in the Venom build thread, it rips with the 12" props. I believe paternflyer got around 13000rpm with an APC 12x9 with a muffler and almost 15000rpm on a pipe. That should satisfy any power requirements I have...[X(]


Now if someone could give me a review of what to expect with the Intruder, I can give Dan a call. Dan, feel free to jump in with your comments on these as well. Since you manufacture them, you must have a few comments on them.

Also, Dan (or anyone else), if you have specs on these two, can you post the wingspan, length, area and expected finished weights, that would be great.


Thanks,
Mark

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

That would be plenty of power. Certainly a buch more than we had back when the brushfire was being flown. 10 cc was the limit. I am not sure how the extra size or weight will fit in the nose or affect balance however.

As for retracts, I would certainly use them if I were to build another. Trike gear. Another thing that I remmeber as being real nice with the Brushfire was takeoffs, rolling on the main gear, pulling the nose up first before lifting off. I used Spring Air once and they worked well, however once switching to mechanicals (MK or Supra) I never went back.

And sorry, although Rojecki may have flown it, Ken Bonnema designed it. Sorry for the mental lapse.

Stuart

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Stuart,

The ST90 (edit - it's a 90, not 91...) weighs 20.7oz without muffler and a one piece muffler from Mac's is about 3.6oz, so it is not a pig by any means. Probably heavier than the 60's of it's heyday, though. What did a pumped 60RE and pipe weigh, anyways? I would maybe need to move the battery around, but nothing more severe than that. At least it is nose weight and not tail weight, which is a real PITA to work with...

I will be thinking about retracts, but I am leary of the durability issues when flying from grass. They look fantastic, but I want simple and light and retracts aren't usually mentioned in the same sentence with either of those qualities.

Intruder, anyone?


Mark

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

BRUSHFIRE. Stuart summarized all the reasons very nicely. The INtruder with the ST 90 will be a rocket in comparison. The ST 90 weighs about the same as pattern 2 stroke 60s of the era when it was designed so weight is not an issue. It responds nicely to a tuned pipe of you want to go that way, but will have plenty of power (more than we had back in the days when the Brushfire was kitted - I think Steve flew his with an Enya 60X).
The Intruder flies well, too, but was designed almost 10 years before the Brushfire.
My 2 cents.
Will B.

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Thanks, Will. I have always leaned towards the Brushfire, but wanted to see if anybody had a good reason to go with the Intruder. It sounds like the intruder would be a good choice for a piped 50 instead of the bigger case 60-90 engines. Hmmm...:D Maybe next year, after I clear out some backlog. You have to build one new BPS every year, don't you?[8D]


Thanks,
Mark

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

The Brushfire is still the best flying plane that I have ever flown. Totally neutral and no coupling. It's only issue was not having enough power in the old days when we were limited to .61 motors. You will not be disappointed.

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Wow, it's turning into a shutout for the Brushfire. Does anybody have the specs for the Brushfire? Just how big is it?

Dan, you hear that? One Brushfire order, coming right up!:D I will e-mail you to get the latest pricing info and kit details before I place the order.


Mark

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

----------------


I bought an Ultrathrust muffler that PSP is selling just for the G90. To heck with wrestling with the pipe during set up. I haven't ran the muffler yet, but if it provides any boost at all over the stock set up, which it should, I'll be happy.

I fly off grass runways a lot. That is why I prefer pneumatic retracts. I like the isolation provided from the receiver's battery pack in case a strut gets bent and fails to retract completely.

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

I remember plans for the Brushfire, in either Model Aviation or Model Builder. Anyone have a copy?

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

I checked the original plans for the wood version and it lists the Brushfire as 858 sq inches and 9 1/4 pounds. The length is 58 1/4" give or take due to folds in the paper and the span is 65".

The original article appeared in R/C Model builder in April 1980.
Lets see if the uploaded images are readable.

Stuart

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Looks like they are readable if you maximize the picture size.

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

I couldn't find any color pictures of my Brushfire, but I still ahve the review article for the S&W kit which I also scanned in.

Stuart

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Last two pages.

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Awesome! Thank you, Stuart. Great info and background material.

Dan, is that weight also valid for your kit? If so, I will be putting my Webra 120 on it instead of the 90. That will motivate a 9lb plane in any direction, up, down, whatever.:D For the 90 to be decent, I need to stay under 8lb max, 7.5lb even better.


Mark

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Mark,

You should be able to bring in my kit at less that 8 pounds. I am using lighter materials and techniques to make the fuselage plus I am using the lightest/stongest foam wings I can make. Quite honestly, I can't see putting anything over a .91 in the plane. I am presently building one for myself with a Jett .91 FIRE which I expect to be a rocket ship. One other thing... even with a YS .60 this plane will haul.... so.. I know we are in the realm of if it fits, us it, but I'd get the kit and start figuring out your weights before going with a 1.2 sized engine.


Dan

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Thanks for the reply, Dan. If it will stay under 8lb, then the ST90 will be fine for me. I have both engines sitting in the basement, so I can choose after weighing things out.

I've sent you an email about pricing and shipping for the Brushfire and the T2A-40 as well.

Thanks,
Mark

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Hey Mark,
I built an MK Spinks Akromaster about 15 years ago. Very similar dimensions to the Brushfire. Weighed around 8.5lbs with an ST .90K. Plenty of vertical. Could fly any FAI schedule (at the time) with ease and had fixed gear. No coupling issues! If you go back to the 1985 team trials (If I remember correctly) there were at least 2 MK spinks there with 1.20 4-stroke power. You'll be fine with the ST 90. I did try the Tiger's Paw 'muffler' (which was ST's pseudo tuned pipe - more like a Magic muffler if you remember them) and had a significant power increase. I've used an Ultrathrust muffler on an OS 91FX with great results. Food for thought.
Will B.

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Hey Will,

That is a bit eerie, I just ordered plans for the MAN version of the Spinks Akromaster:

http://www.rcstore.com/rs/general/de...3781&catego=PL

It's a bit bigger at a 74" span and 63" length. Good to hear it's a great flyer, though. I figure it will get a G26 and be a great daily flyer.


Mark

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Ok, I had to dig to find this pic from the mid-80's. This was one of my later Brushfires. Modified to rear exhaust with a fiberglass divider pan added inside the fuse. It was faster like this and it really was not too much work to modify.

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

Nice pic. Got a higher res version you could mail to me? It makes a good wallpaper for the computer, but it's a bit small after being tweaked by the forum. I can see the "widebody" proportions pretty well in this shot, it is much chunkier than many of it's contemporaries.


Thanks,
Mark

RE: Brushfire or A-6 Intruder?
 

The plane looks familiar. Did you compete in the Northeast with it?
Very nice looking by the way.
Stuart