RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

I made the last post before I read the other post showing the evolution. I'm still amazed to this day how many pattern designs could be traced back to the Compensator. Rhett Miller was truly a visionary. My dad flew a Compensator back in the day built from the Southern R/C kit. What a great-flying ballistic design! I wish that ship hadn't gone in due to radio failure! As far as I remember, though, the Escape had a straight trailing edge instead of the double-tapered wing. I'm fascinated that even the current designs are starting to revert to the double-taper instead of the straight trailing edge. Those old-school designers like Miller and Bridi really knew what they were doing!

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Actually, all aerobatic models can likely trace their ancestry back to the Astro Hog, as originally done by Fred Dunn. Between Dunn and the early `Orbit' reed gear began the genesis of modern R/C.
Evan.

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Somebody take Photoshop away from me! Here's another composite. The Deception shows a very wide gear stance on the plans:

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

The bought the rights to every plane Bridi had been selling at the time, as Great Planes bought the entire company. Bridi retired about a year or so and started a new company, some of those planes were redisigned version of older designs, such as the Krafty trainer, the Chaos series, and the Breezy bipe. I don['t know how he got away with the Dirty Birdy, or was the original a Dirty Bridi?

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

not to take anything away from Rhett Miller, but his mentor was the legendary Jim Kirkland who was a very successful pattern ship designer. I think you can see a lot of his influence in the Compensator.
The Kirkland construction and trimming articles for his Intruder in MAN back in the early '70s provided a wealth of information for pattern fliers - much of which is still applicable.
-Will B.

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Hi

I bought Joe's Xlt for $300? back around 1986 from Joe himself, when I lived in Long Beach CA-came with webra 61re. I told him I wasn't going to fly it, just was going to hang it on the ceiling as a trophy, he made me promise him I would fly it and I did-I buried it on about the 30th flight. Every time I see that Xlt pic that is so famous I want to kick myself for ever flying it.

Years later I called him and bought about a dozen gliders he had left when he shut down.

My most cherished bridi kit I still own is a Dart Cart 3 I still have-it must be 30+ years old

RCM Store
PLAN pl-432 cat. 1,


DART CART III
Our Price $7.00

by Bill Warner & Joe Bridi,

46" span, 540 sq. in., .35-.50, 4 ch., built-up balsa and plywood (profile fuselage), one sheet 30" x 40",



Issue: RCM 6-70,

http://www.rcmmagazine.com/store/media/pl-432.jpg

for being like a RC god, he was really down to earth.

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Thanks for posting the graphics Raindave.....of interest are the differences in designs. And similarities. I'm wondering which of Bridi's designs he felt best met his objectives.

The Deception really appears to split the difference between the Compensator and Dirty Birdy! And, I had forgotten that the Birdy had a built-up wing. I believe the plan set I have is for a glass/foam kit version, and doesn't indicate ribs. I also note the relatively thin cross section of the Birdy's horizontal, as well as the fuse.

Back to the Deception....No one in my area flew a Deception and I'm wondering how it was received by those who flew the design?

Regardless, Bridi's designs underscore the accessablity of pattern flying in the 70's. A flyer could readily put together a national level plane from a number of available designs....even scratch one from magazine construction articles....and it could take them as far up the ladder as they could go!

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

I had two Deceptions which I flew extensively in the early 80's. Back then we had a statewide championship series for each class that was run by the Florida Pattern Association. This was before the NSRCA and District Championships. I won Novice (now Sportsman) one year, Advanced the next, and was runner up in Expert the third year. Both versions flew well, and would have flown better had I built them lighter. I started with a
Super Tigre 60 and went to Webra Speeds in them after that. I had a side exhaust configuration with the pipe on the side and I could detect some asymmetry in the knife edge perfomance (left side or right side down) as a result. Rhett Miller flew my first one and gave it his nod of approval. The second one died in a glorious midair at a contest in Jacksonville at the old 103rd Street site. The first one eventually died of old age. I moved on to a Tipo and then an Escape. But I still love the lines of the Deception and I am building another one from plans. I have cut the wing and stab cores and obtained the wood and a new set of retracts. I'm not sure about the engine yet, but I may side mount it and run the pipe under the fuse which is how my Tipo was set up. I love the canopy shape and can't bring myself to put the pipe through it as is done on the Escape.

Jeff

Cessna 182 N9214G

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

I remember looking back at as many archived issues of model aviation as I could, trying to read about past pattern nationals out of curiousity. It struck me that EVERY time I saw Joe Bridi's name, he was using the UFO... so that is probably what he felt was the best design.

I also happen to think its the best looking as well.

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Whoa! rainedave,

I received the Mama Mia plans and article today! Man was I shocked when I saw the picture of the plane which appeared on the cover of Model Builder. This aircraft is HUGE! I think when I build it, I will definitely put a BIG motor in the nose. Jett 1.20 FIRE, might even do well with a 160 in the nose! I think the name Mama Mia, was placed on the plane after the article was written. In the article the pictures have GBA (Great Big Airplane) So I think thats what Joe called it initially. Joe did not build the prototype but another builder did so noted in the article. Joe designed but another modeler built it up.

Now, I know "WHY" the Webra .61 Blackhead looked so small in the pictures! ;)

Specs:
WS= 65"
Length = 70.5"
Wing Area = 965 sq"
Wt. = 11 lb. 2 oz
I think this was Joe's answer to the question, "Do Bigger Aircraft fly Better?" The answer was YES!

Below is the Cover shot of the aircraft from the November 1980 issue.

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Wow! Thanks for posting the cover Tony. What's the root chord length? There's so much taper that the wing almost looks like a delta. That will take some pretty big pieces of foam to cut those cores. That's very cool. Thanks.

David

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

David,

The W1 rib is 18.5" chord. I failed to mention that its a 13% Airfoil so its going to be fast...ie: "Ballistic" :D

BTW- the wing is Built up. Obviously Joe had to stay below 11 lb. 3.5 oz to be legal. so wood selection was critical. Personally, I will build a foam wing using the 'eggcrate' method of cutting the cores. He flew it with a 10.5 x 7.5 prop. He used "Giezendaner retracts" which I don't think are available any more, but I'm sure spring-airs(Robarts) would work.

Imagine this aircraft with a good strong 1.2 FIRE engine turning a 12 x 10 or maybe even a 11 x 12.

I had to chuckle as I read the article as Joe covered it in Silkspan, then used K & B Super Poxy Primer and paint to finsih it! So just think if you covered completely with Monokote, you might save a lb or more in weight! !

Cool Model! [sm=shades_smile.gif]

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Did this plane precede Wayne Ulery's EU-1A, or follow it? PAC lists the EU-1A's wing area as 965 sq." which is the same as what you posted for the Mama Mia, and their wing planforms are somewhat similar. Interesting.

In comparison, the UFO has a root chord of 13" and an 18% section. I assume the Mama Mia's airfoil high point is pretty far back, like around 40% of the chord? Looking at the Brushfire plans - another biggy - it has a root chord of around 17" and an area of 858 sq." and a 16% airfoil, so it's a little smaller.

Are you really going to build one? I think you definitely should!

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

The original EU-1 was published in the April '78 MAN. It was presented with two different airfoils (15% and 17%). The 15% wing had better spin characteristics. The 17% flew smoother. They were thinking of adding stall strips to the 17% wing. Wanye Ulrey flew the 17% version in his 5th place finish at the 1977 Masters. The article used every conceivable method to encourage 'careful' selection of materials to keep weight down to 11 lbs fueled. I am not sure what actual changes went into the EU-1a.

The Mama Mia was published in the Nov '80 Model Builder. Joe Bridi mentions that he was impressed by the EU-1's flying charateristics and ability to fly the FAI pattern. He then started to think about designing a larger pattern ship. He was also trying to fly at 11 lbs but the plans show 11 lbs 2 oz.

I'm not sure when the EU-1a came on the scene.

turbo

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Thanks, turbo. Great information. I had a feeling that one of the planes probably had an impact on the other.

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

I campaigned an EU-1A for three seasons back in the 80's. This was the epoxy fuse/foam wing version. As you mention, it was REALLY hard to keep it in the 10 lbs. range. With a Rossi .61 screaming its guts out, it flew well, but I was often downgraded for manuvers which were thought to be too small. I believe the size of the EU-1A gave the perception the manuvers were too small! Still the best rolling aircraft I have ever flown. With a modern 1.20 pumped engine, I believe it would still do well in the lower classes today. I had never seen the Momma Mia until this thread started. I see it has the ubiquitous fiberglass canopy/pipe cover that all of Bridi's later pattern designs had. Again, with a modern 1.20 or 1.60, I bet it would do well in lower class pattern. May I say this is a fantastic thread and I have had much pleasure in reading and responding to...

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Maybe the Mama Mia got it's name when Joe Bridi frist saw what the cover
of Model Builder was going to look like and so named the plane. I know this
is a Bridi design thread but with the talk of large pattern planes of the pass.
Has anyone seen or built one of these from MAN plans? As for Bridi aircraft,
they are the best bang for the buck for anyone who wants to get into building
and flying pattern planes.

Dave keep those digital images coming. I like how you always come up with
a photo of/on the subject matter.

fsp07821
The Monster
This huge pattern for Kioritz 2.4 power should satisfy non-scale fliers who wan
to join the big-airplane trend. Large plan shows all details for this built-up aircraft.
Designed by Roger Sanders. WS: 88 in.; L: 80.5 in.; Engine: 2+; 4 channels;
1 sheet.
LD3
$ 24.95

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

OK graybeards, how does this relate to the old commercial, " Momma mia, 'at's a some spicy meat ball."

Come on you older guys, doesn't the name of this aircraft ring a bell with that commercial? Is the time frame right?

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Ha! Yes, but I think the guy in that commercial was either talking about big boobs or needing Alka-Selzer!:D

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

All this information about Bridi's designs have been very helpfull to me, all the images you posted Dave are times better than words, it let's you have a clear idea of what you are talking about.

Many of Bridi's designs never made to México, as I told you and the main objective for me starting this thread was to decide on building the best one he ever build.

In every part of life there are different points of view, there must be one plane you can say this is the non plus ultra of Joe's design's.

So wich one is it?

Great comments from all of you, I'm impressed with the knowledge about the thread.

Great flies and better weather to all you this weekend.

Rafa.
p.d. excuse me for my english is not so good, special my orthography. :D

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Rafa,

Your English is fine, we are having no problems understanding you. Far better than my Spanish...:)

I think there are two choices for you, the Kaos variants or the UFO. The Kaos variants are kind of the definitive Bridi design and what really left his mark on the hobby. However, they do not necessarily fly as well as his later ones. The UFO seems to be the one that most people will say is flat out his best flying design. The Escape MAY fly a bit better, but it's not really a "vintage" pre-turnaround design like the UFO is.

Mark

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Txs for you reply:

I understand that the most popular (lets put it this way) is the Kaos, in fact I'm building one out of the plans that rainedave send to me.

I've just order a OS55 AX ;), wich I want to install in this plane, hope soon, I'll be able to fly it and send pic's to all you guys.

Anyone have the plans for the UFO? this one never made south the MX border.

Great weather 2 all you this weekend.

Rafa

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

If that plane has a 65" wing span then that girl is only a little over four feet tall.

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Why do the girls love Joe's planes so much. I can't get my wife to look at mine, which come's in handy when I sneek a new kit or engine in.

RE: BRIDI'S BEST DESIGN
 

Looking at the Mama Mia, it is definitely not the same plane as the Big Dirty Birdy 2+2 ( http://www.bridiairplanes.com/hangar/bigdirtybirdy.html ), as was mentioned previously. The wing is much lower aspect ratio, the span is 13" greater on the DB 2+2 and area is a bit more, too. Fuse also looks fatter on the MM from that pic...


Mark