RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

'evening gents!

All good food for thought. I'm curious though whether a sheet of 1/16 balsa laminated with 1/32 ply weighs more than a sheet of 3/32 balsa once lightened. The 1/32 ply wouldn't necessarily have to run the length of the fuse it could stop just aft of F3 as in the Picorare plans.

In any event, I made some back of the envelope calculations to see how the wing loading changes for different models. Given this thread is about the Nanorare, I'll take some license to post some details on 15 size models - the T10 and the D10. Here are some figures:

T10 (Picorare)

Span: 40"
Mean Wing Chord: 6.56"
Wing Area: 262.4 sq in = 1.822 sq ft

Wing loading @ 28 oz AUW = 15.4 oz/sq ft
Wing loading @ 36 oz AUW = 19.8 oz/sq ft
Wing loading @ 40 oz AUW = 22.0 oz/sq ft

D10 (Deception)

Span: 40"
Mean Wing Chord: 7.71"
Wing Area: 308.4 sq in = 2.142 sq ft

Wing loading @ 28 oz AUW = 13.1 oz/sq ft
Wing loading @ 36 oz AUW = 16.8 oz/sq ft
Wing loading @ 40 oz AUW = 18.7 oz/sq ft

From these figures it would seem reasonable to conclude that the upper weight limit for the T10 should be no more than 36 oz and for the D10, 40 oz. In order to keep the wing loadings under 15 oz/sq ft the targets would be 27.3 oz for the T10 and 32.13 oz for the D10.

Andy, perhaps these figures will help in the project although I'm sure design programs spit this stuff out ordinarily. Having built what I suspect will be a 40 oz D10, my goal will be to find a way to build a 27 oz electric Pico!

... when I get around to it.

David.

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Thankfully Phil has come to the rescue of this project and is now building a 20 size Tiporare - the certainly infamous Nanorare!

He will be building a 4%+ version, the Nanorare+ as discussed in this thread. The fuse is scaled to 78% while the wing and stab will be 74%. This model will present more like some of the current squarer pattern planes except that it will be sleek and fast rather than bloated! Phil will build his wing and stab on a set of cores I cut in the past and are like the ones shown at the head of the thread. Perhaps he can highlight how he plans to power it and other details of what he has in mind for this build. This will be an excellent reference for this little bullet!

Below is the start of his build:

Phil,

Please do post pictures of your build. Every step is interesting to follow since many builders have never built a wood Tipo fuse. And as far as I know, no one has yet built a Nanorare (unless Don has sold some short kits of it) so you are in virgin, uncharted and excellent territory!

Below are some notes for other potential builders and perhaps they may be obvious to you Phil. Please use what's useful and disregard the rest.

For the fuse top, use standard 3/8" tristock. Be careful not to use the same wood shown on the plans - that is for the 60 size model! You must choose the wood appropriately for your scale of the model. Fuse sides should be 3/32", doublers probably can be 1/32" ply and tristock should be 3/8" above and 1/4" below. I can't recall the thickness of the rudder at the LE but I suspect it is 1/4" which means that you will have to use a 1/16" keel in between the fuse sides when you join them at the tail. This way, if you add the two fuse sides ( 2x3/32" = 3/16" ) plus 1/16" keel will give you a 4/16" or 1/4" thickness at the rudder hinge line.

The fin and nose section - top and bottom - are the hardest part of building any Tipo. If your fuse sides are correct and identical and you jig your construction, you will end up with a sleek and straight fuse - very critical. For the wings, I would now recommend to install the wood TE to the cores after they have been prepared for retracts and servos, and then sheet them with pre-sanded cut to size 1/16" contest sheeting. If you want to build very light and you have a good source of 1/32" sheeting, then go ahead and use that on the wings and stab. Keep in mind it is very thin so you will have little available to sand after the sheeting is applied. I'd strongly recommend using 1/32" for the stab if not for the wing. Once the TE is applied to the wing cores and they have been sheeted, you can then do the LE and tips making sure you tack glue the tips in place and then hollow them out once shaped and sanded.

The wing is sheeted and center joined with slow cure laminating epoxy. The wing panels should be identical mirror images of each other prior to joining. Make sure you cut the ducts for the retract and servo leads before joining them! E-Flite electric retracts are stronghly recommended but Spring Air 603 pneumatics can optionally also be used at a not insignificant weight penalty.

Wing should be mounted and aligned square and level to fuse and the stab should be installed and squared up and leveled after that. Incidence and diehdral/anhedral is shown on the plans and made reference to in this thread and perhaps in my little Picorare (40" span Tipo thread). Nose gear, fuel tank and engine should be ideally planned for and installed prior to fuse assembly. Proper down and right thrust should also be built into the model via the firewall and spinner ring.

Well, I think that's a start. Your model should come in weighing in the 48 to 56 oz range all gear up and finished.

David.

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Here are a few shots of the build of the smaller Picorare for reference and inspiration.

First 2 or 3 shots also show prepared Nanorare stab cores in the corner ready for joining as well as Nanorare virgin wing cores beside them. Larger sheeted wings (again standing in corner) with Kraft Multicon retracts are of big brother Tiporare under way back then.

David.

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

ok that is pretty much what i was figuring so let the balsa dust fly. Phil

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Phil,

Fly away!

Here are a couple of additional shots of how I rigged the tail control surfaces. Done pretty much like on a full size Tipo except I used one exit only on each side for both the forked elevator pushrod and the rudder P-P system. You can do the control horns like this if you like (4-40 x 1/2" bolts in hardwood dowels) - it keeps the control surfaces clean when viewed from above. I'd recommend using two plastic shaft and CF pushrods (e.g., Sullivan) for the elevators instead of the traditional FG arrow shaft and steel pushrod. This pushrod alone cost me a great deal of weight on the Pico - I think over an ounce which is significant on a 40" span model. I still have to change it. I'd recommend P-P for the rudder as shown. You would need two exits in this case but no hooded exits - everything would sit flush with the fuse side.

I used GP small hinge points for all control surfaces with epoxy since you are going into foam. Robart's are a little better quality I think but either will do.

Happy building.

David.

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

ok here is what i have planned. K&B .20 sporstr to start with and if that is not enough i have a g-34 to put in it. Going to get a set of e-flite 10 15 size retacts as specs say up to 4.5 pounds. Also thinking hs-81's for servos all around. Monokote covered and if i remember right the K&B liked a 9 4 if remember right. If kept light enough i think this should a really fun flier. Hope that sheds some light on what is going on in my thoughts. Phil

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Hey Phil,

any progress on your Nano? The cores are ready - just let me know.

David.

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

it took a back seat for now. Have a family crisis that requires my attention. Hope to funds to you in the next couple of weeks. Phil

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Hi Phil,

sorry to hear about the family troubles. When you need me to send you those cores, just drop me a line by email or PM.

I look forward to seeing your build of the Nano.

David.

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

David, it's just you and a couple others here on this thread...........

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Yeah but some of us read it w/o posting.

Guess I'm not one of those any more.

Andy

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

I am another who reads it to follow the progress. I might build one someday, just too many projects at the moment.

Chuck

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

agreed, with 2 schools around the corner and my flying field 45 minutes away a smaller plane is an excellent idea. just too many projects ongoing.

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Hey! Some activity on this thread :)

Thanks for posting guys. If you are interested in smaller models, there should be a larger number of classics to choose from next year. As they say, all good wines require time. ;)

Andy, by the way, how did your Tipo project work out? Haven't heard any further news. Actually, I was going to drop you a line as I thought I'd bounce a couple of Kaos questions off you - see what you thought.

David.

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Hi David,

Guess I wasn't subscribed to this thread, but I am now.

The Tipo plans lay across my plotter, waiting for me to convert them to balsa. I have a workbench of other projects in front of it; these are broken or unfinished planes. I need the workbench space for the Tipo project. After hosting a club build of a 150% Kadet this winter, I'm pretty much off the schedule for this building season.

Andy

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Well, well... The dinosaur thread re-awakens! :)

Those are some big honkin' trainers! I'm sure the club is having a ball.

I was going to let this dinosaur sleep a little while longer until I had some pics to post. Gotta get them fins, stabs and wings built. The fuses will be nice and last. I'm hoping for a 23 oz max airframe weight. According to mi calcs this should bring them in at 56 oz or less.

Stay tuned!

I hope to see some paper->balsa conversion at your end too.

David

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

My current project (just taking a break from some trim work) is over here:http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1765875&page=4

Hope to get a few more pix posted tonight. I can't wait to be done!

Andy

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Dave,

Hey I actually experienced 90F in Montreal once, around 1970, July 15. Then it got back to earth quickly. LOL

I like the name, but expected something much smaller, on the order of at most 1% the original. That's what caught my eye so I looked in. Good luck with it

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Matt,

glad to have you post! I hope you enjoyed your time up here in the 70's.

Well, the Nanorare is "two steps" down (~78%) from the Tipo in size. The Picorare, which I already built as an electric with no gear, is three steps down (62%). A 1% of the original would certainly fall in the "nano technology" realm but would be called a Yoctorare :) That doesn't sound very cool though so a 50% version, which is the smallest practical size I can think of, would be called a "Femtorare". That sounds cool enough. [8D]

David

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Well,

in the resurrection of a thread, some pictures and posts are usually required so here's where I'm at.

I managed to get the first of two fins and rudders framed up. The first picture shows my modified "flat base" Tipo vertical design which will integrate seamlessly into the new CAD design I've made of the model. The new Nanorare, which in retrospect I'm glad I waited to build, will be of a full fuse CAD design and much lighter in construction than the original. Wing and stab will follow the foam core design and the model is designed around the available cores from Don at Eureka who took up the mantle with my scaled Tipo idea making cores available for each size. I no longer have any of the cores I originally cut except for those I plan to build.

I will be building two models, as I originally intended when I started the thread. I've decided to focus on Webra instead of OS power as the engines are shorter, much lighter and are power houses on pipes. I have a Speed 32 as well as a 36 GT on its way to me as options. All Webra's from 25's to 36's use the same small crankcase and are roughly the same in weight. The 32's are actually a tad lighter than the 25's as their sleeves are thinner. I discovered this to also be true with the Webra 50's which are built into 40 size cases and also have thinner sleeves.

The second picture shows the frame, rib and gusset parts to frame up the vertical. I cut parts for two verticals and am scratching them as a trial to see how I found the build process which is always a little delicate with a framed up small "ribbed" part like this. Third picture shows how I went about getting the angles right and insuring I would build a straight fin. I basically glued the fin TE vertically and centered on to the new fin post which extends down along the rear of the fuse sides. I then glued the rear bottom gusset to the fin base rib. By joining this to the fin TE and fin post, I ended up with the correct rake for the fin/rudder hinge line. I then added the top rib along with the fin sub-LE and remaining two gussets to create a frame using center lines on everything to insure I was plumb and symmetric. Satisfied with that, I added the 1/16" fin sheeting to one side to partly lock the frame in place. To complete the fin frame, I added the middle rib and sheeting to the other side. Sanded everything smooth and then marked, cut, glued and sanded the 2 x 1/4" soft balsa LE.

While that was drying, I ripped a couple of strips of 3/32" balsa 3/8" wide and glued them together to form a 3/16" x 3/8" stiff strip. This would form the "rib" structure for the rudder following the original design which works and is light. Basically you add a couple of these strips along the top and bottom of the rudder sheeting, then a strip along the hinge line and finally a third rib in the middle as well as a little doubler piece where the control horn will go to provide some material. Wait for everything to dry, sand the ribs to a sharp edge at the rudder TE and add the right side sheeting to the assembly. Once dry, you can sand it even and round off the base.

I need to add a little 1/16" cap to both the rudder and fin top as I sanded the rudder to fin top line rather than sanding the fin to rudder top line. The cap on the top of the rudder is nice anyway. Once that is leveled, I can add the fin tip which will consist of a 1/8" lite ply base topped with 1/4" balsa sanded to contour. Lastly, the fin tip and rudder TE will have a strip of 3/32" HW added and sanded to foil to protect the TE.

I'll frame up the other vertical, finish them both up and then move on to the stabs and wings while I wait for the laser cut fuses to come in. Both models will have electric trike retracts and approximately 700W of power each - whether electric or piped glow. Props will be 9x5, 9x6 turning in the 14-15K range.

All fin parts were cut from scrap wood from my laser cut Dirty Birdy kit.

David

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Top shelf work Dave!
They ought to go like hell with either power plant..

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Jason,

Thanks for the comments. I suspect you are right - they will move out!

I'm curious to find out how the two compare to each other and whether I can bring them in at 56 oz all up. That would make for a nice wing loading. I managed to build an electric Super Pacer to 40 oz so I think it might be doable.

David

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Matt,

glad to have you post! I hope you enjoyed your time up here in the 70's.

Well, the Nanorare is "two steps" down (~78%) from the Tipo in size. The Picorare, which I already built as an electric with no gear, is three steps down (62%). A 1% of the original would certainly fall in the "nano technology" realm but would be called a Yoctorare :) That doesn't sound very cool though so a 50% version, which is the smallest practical size I can think of, would be called a "Femtorare". That sounds cool enough. [8D]

David
[/quote]
Thank you and I did enjoy it. Actually went swimming.....

Had, and still have family in Montreal. Back then you didn't need anything special to cross the border. Now you gotta have much more paperwork proving you are you.

Yoctorare? I agree that doesn't sound nice....

These little builds are loads of fun, aren't they? Very quick building.

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Matt, I hope that was in a pool! Well, maybe back then the river was still decent. It's appalling that the city hasn't done anything remotely decent with the water front.

It shouldn't be too bad provided one has a passport which is "electronically clean". Events 12 years ago haven't helped but I'm sure in the 70's one could walk in just saying "nice morning ey?" :)

That's actually 10^-24! Approaching the fractal limit. [:-]

Yup! Fun they are. Everything is smaller though so in some respects harder than a 60 size build. One has to watch the sandpaper and think how everything is going to fit and where. These 30 size I much prefer to the 15 size of the Pico. You can actually get some traction in a proper reduced scale pattern classic. Retracts and pipes are much more doable as is a painted fuse.

David

RE: Nanorare Build Thread
 

Yup, a swimming pool. Water temp was chilly but after 10 minutes we got used to it. Egads...the river? Not on purpose

I know the series.... based on Greek and Latin but mostly Greek (I was born and raised there). Femto, -15,;Hecto -18; Seto, -21' Octo, -24, and so forth. In an earlier life, I developed and analyzed optical cables, microwave cables and differential pairs which occasionally required differences to be measured in Femtosecs.

It occurs to me that Octo is close to 1/Avogadro...(BG). But that 's way over the top....LOL