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What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Old 02-11-2013, 11:17 AM
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Default What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Trying to bring myself up to speed in everything Club 40 and beyond, and not having pylon raced here in Texas previously, I'm curious to know what scoring system is being used? Software, setup, etc?

Thanks,
David






Old 02-17-2013, 06:02 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Dave at the Georgetown race we will be using the NMPRA race program to keep track of things. We use stop watches for time and either a counter of flip cards to keep track of laps. We try to keep it simple.
Bob
Old 02-17-2013, 07:23 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

If I make the race I'll be bringing air horns for the cut judges, when there is a cut, he can blow the horn and radio it in to the scoring table. I think we use to use this system in Houston and maybe other places.
Old 02-18-2013, 03:29 AM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

OK skully, we'll give it a try. make sure thay are good and loud.
Bob
Old 02-18-2013, 09:11 AM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

My 2 cents; the Air Horns sound like a good idea, but you still have to rely on radios to tell the lap judges who incurred the Cut; the use of Radios in my experience, are usually unreliable, case in point at last years Club 40 Champ Race in Waco, you may recall on Sunday we had to wait till after the race and have the Cut Judges report who got the cuts and how many, and adjust the times accordingly; the problem with the radios seems to be needless chatter, operator error, radio procedure, etc; and even with using the Horns, you will still have a problem if cuts occurred on both Pylons, and 2 Cut Judges are trying to comminicate at the same time; the best system was a few years ago with the digital display, no communication, just a digital display that showed Laps and Cuts if any; now that was cool.
Old 02-18-2013, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

The new "Judgement System" is the best way to go to date.
Old 02-18-2013, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc


ORIGINAL: BarryReade

The new ''Judgement System'' is the best way to go to date.
Judgement System?
Old 02-18-2013, 03:35 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Yes, try googling it and you will get some great info.
Old 02-18-2013, 03:42 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Hank Kauffmann is the designer/builder.  He is now working on a "Course Workerless System" that uses transponders in the planes and all it will take to run the course is a starter and a computer Czar/operator.  Cuts will automatically be counted and if you have a current Judgement system, like was used at the Nats this year, it will be up-gradable when perfected.
Old 02-18-2013, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Barry, is this system Hank is working on available yet? I did try and Google, Bing it and didn’t find anything relating to “Judgement System“? Do you have a link that we could read about this?

Gary
Old 02-18-2013, 07:19 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Here is a link to the current software. www.nmpra.org/software.htm.

Still need to find more on the hardware construction. <br type="_moz" />
Old 02-19-2013, 03:05 AM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Check out this thread and there is a link in it for his latest post on yet another site.  LINK <div>
</div><div>And here is the other Link  </div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>
Old 02-19-2013, 05:30 AM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

This sounds real promising if cost is not astronomical on the system!

Gary
Old 02-19-2013, 07:17 AM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

I wouldn't want to give out bad #s as I haven't purchased or built one.  From what I understand if you just buy the components and have an electrics type in your group to put it together it isn't to expensive.  If you buy a turn key operation it seems a bit expensive but, evaluate what you are getting.
Old 02-19-2013, 10:34 AM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

I've been in contact with Hank re: the Judgeman system.. If there is enough interest, I'd be willing to contribute a good bit towards the purchase of one for the Texas area events. There is almost a $2k difference in price between the Turn-key and kit options. There is an est. 100 hours of completion time with the kit. If there are people that have the time and soldering / build skills, that may be a good option, and it could be knocked out relatively quickly between a group of people I would think.<div>
<div>
<div><div></div></div></div></div>
Old 02-19-2013, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Plane Insane, you bring up an interesting proposition. We can talk more about that at our next club meeting or at the March 16 race. For now I have a few questions; first, is that $2K difference in price for the judgeman system as it is now or for the new-and-improved version to come? Second, when will a finished version of this new lap counting, cut judging, timing and score keeping wonder be ready for use? Finally, where will is debut? I would like to see it in action.

I would be willing to help build a system. I can solder pretty good as long as I don’t have to know how it works electronically.

Bob
Old 02-19-2013, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Here is the intro by Hank regarding the Judgeman System for those who are interested and don't want to click through various links:<div>
</div><div><h3 style="font-size: 22px; margin: 0px; padding: 3px 10px; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif;" align="left" id="sites-page-title-header" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><span dir="ltr" id="sites-page-title">Hank Kauffmann's Race Judging System</span></h3><div style="min-height: 150px; padding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 15px; font-family: Arial, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" class="sites-canvas-main" id="sites-canvas-main"><div id="sites-canvas-main-content"><table style="width: 1892px; table-layout: fixed; margin: 0px;" class="sites-layout-name-one-column sites-layout-hbox" cellspacing="0" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><tr><td style="vertical-align: top; padding: 10px;" class="sites-layout-tile sites-tile-name-content-1">The full system is a wireless system that encompasses cuts, turns, lap-counting, starter clock &amp; countdown, race course data logging and timing. All information is collected and stored about the race; this includes which lane cut, on which lap, and at what pylon, and the time of the infraction and the times of each lap and turn button push. The system can do 13-24 starts, 24-13, racehorse and any of 3 FAI starts, all selectable by the starter. The starter can start and stop the race, give cuts, and also has a delay start button. The system was used at the World Championships last summer, the NATs, and at numerous races in the southwest. We have used the data gathered over the past year to refine the operation of the system, and to make future systems more compact and portable/transportable.

The full system includes modules for timers, pylon1-2-3 judges, starter and Pylon1 lights. It also has displays for cut &amp; turn, 12" large digits that can be seen from 800', and some newer 5" digits that can be seen from 20'-75'. Each digit can display from 0 to 19, and can also show L, E, H, P, o u U and other characters. Cuts and the pylon of the cut are shown at all displays. The displays are designed for a 12v system, and will run all day on a 8A battery.

The system is easily used for both 2 and 3 pole racing. It can be run with a reduced mode when various stations and/or displays are left-off. This will make it more economical for local races. The displays and lights can be controlled directly from the system or from a laptop, either wired or wireless. Signalling for the numeric displays is just a straight bit stream with clock and latch at rs232 or ttl levels, and so would be easy to incorporate into your system if you just want to extend what you already have.

The system will run without a laptop. However the laptop does the race event data-logging and timing. The laptop connects to the system wirelessly and so can be anywhere at the flying field including in the clubhouse or with the timers.

The system is only in kit form. No boxes, frames, cases, cables, switches, labels, or push-buttons, but we do have recommendations for these. LEDs are optional and we do have recommended suppliers and a line on some awesome LEDs. The brain module circuit board will be assembled, programmed and tested. The rest of the system includes PCBs to organize the wiring and connectors. There is very little point-to-point internal wiring with it's attendant failure points. There are also various driver PCBs that require someone with average soldering skills to solder transistors, resistors and DIP ICs. The displays come as unpopulated PCBs which are professionally made with all holes drilled, copper circuit traces with solder masks and silk-screened to show the parts placement. All cables are either DB9 or 1/4 stereo jacks.

For you non-pylon racers out there, the system could also be reconfigured for other events ...

If you're doing something to your system next winter or even just thinking about it, send me a PM so I know what you're up to. We will be ordering in the next two weeks and I will order some spares on speculation, but I need a sense of numbers .

- Hank



<span lang="EN-CA">The system is a wireless system for coordinating all pylon race officials and judges. As delivered, the system can be used equally well for 2 pole racing such as Warbird and Giant scale, and for 3 pole racing such as NMPRA/AMA racing or FAI.</span></p>

<span lang="EN-CA">The system handles: the countdown clock, all race timing, start flag duties, turn lights &amp; cut lights. All data is collected at the laptop and displayed and/or printed. If the laptop is connected to the public address system it will count down the start over the public address system.</span></p>

<span lang="EN-CA">The location of the race infractions such as cuts are displayed on the number display, and the laptop program knows when and where the cut occurred as well as lap times and turn button presses. </span></p></td></tr></table></div></div></div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>Direct link for complete info:</div><div>https://sites.google.com/site/cppradistrict3/articles/misc-articles/judgemansystem</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>
Old 02-19-2013, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Bob, it is for the the current system (posted above) and not the one that he is currrently in the develpment and testing phase = Model Tracker. modeltracker.blogspot.ca/
Modeltracker will use/cotrol the judgeman system displays once available and will be an additional expense.
The idea of eliminating or minimizing the required judges and other volunteers sounds really great for the obvious reasons.

I'll try to make the next GAMA club meeting.
David


ORIGINAL: Oldbob

Plane Insane, you bring up an interesting proposition. We can talk more about that at our next club meeting or at the March 16 race. For now I have a few questions; first, is that $2K difference in price for the judgeman system as it is now or for the new-and-improved version to come? Second, when will a finished version of this new lap counting, cut judging, timing and score keeping wonder be ready for use? Finally, where will is debut? I would like to see it in action.

I would be willing to help build a system. I can solder pretty good as long as I don&rsquo;t have to know how it works electronically.

Bob
Old 02-19-2013, 01:13 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Hey Dave our next club meeting for the GAMA Georgetown Aero Modelers Association will be March 12th we do need to talk about this a little more in depth. I like what I’m reading here on Hank’s system!...
Old 02-19-2013, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Hey guys, I thought I'd step in. There are two systems Judgeman & ModelTracker.

Judgeman is the manual system and it connects all the judges together. A computer does all the timing and displays a fair amount of race info such as laps, cuts and turns (for each lap). The amount of race info the system displays prevent most misunderstandings and judgement calls are rarely challenged.

Judgeman also has number and light displays for the pilots, the number displays show the corner(s) that was cut.

ModelTracker will be an extension to Judgeman. It will calculate the cuts, turns and laps, and send out radio signals that the Judgeman displays understand.

The Judgeman systems are all one-off. I think there are 7 systems running out there now, with 2 more coming online this spring.

ModelTracker is a work in progress, I'm experiencing the old Chinese curse 'May you live in interesting times'. The project is interesting, but also very challenging.

Hank
Old 02-19-2013, 01:53 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Added it to my calender and looking forward to meeting you and Bob, etc.

ORIGINAL: gefisher

Hey Dave our next club meeting for the GAMA Georgetown Aero Modelers Association will be March 12th we do need to talk about this a little more in depth. I like what I&rsquo;m reading here on Hank&rsquo;s system!...
Old 02-19-2013, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc


ORIGINAL: hankers

Hey guys, I thought I'd step in. There are two systems Judgeman & ModelTracker.

Judgeman is the manual system and it connects all the judges together. A computer does all the timing and displays a fair amount of race info such as laps, cuts and turns (for each lap). The amount of race info the system displays prevent most misunderstandings and judgement calls are rarely challenged.

Judgeman also has number and light displays for the pilots, the number displays show the corner(s) that was cut.

ModelTracker will be an extension to Judgeman. It will calculate the cuts, turns and laps, and send out radio signals that the Judgeman displays understand.

The Judgeman systems are all one-off. I think there are 7 systems running out there now, with 2 more coming online this spring.

ModelTracker is a work in progress, I'm experiencing the old Chinese curse 'May you live in interesting times'. The project is interesting, but also very challenging.

Hank
First off I would like to thank you Hank for all your hard work on these systems! I admire you electronic guys, I am more on the mechanical side of the spectrum! This system has allot of entrusts here in the Texas area with all the EF-1, Club 40 and NMPRA pylon racing going on! I have allot of home work to do in the near future and I’m sure we will be talking with you!

Gary

Old 02-19-2013, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

You need to get the Waco Club involved, to see if they want to join in and contribute, since Waco & Georgetown don't run races on the same dates!
Old 02-19-2013, 03:48 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Our Judgeman system is owned by our race district and travels to the 4-5 cities that hold races. Montana's travels as well and so does the CAPS system. You'll want to factor travel, transportation, and logistics of shared ownership into how you want to do things.
Old 02-19-2013, 04:12 PM
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Default RE: What scoring/timing/cut system is being used in Texas for C40, etc

Hank,<div>I meant to ask you previously about the transportation requirements.    How well does the fully loaded system break down and what size vehicle is a minimum needed to transport it?   I have a truck and trailer but others interested in the system may not.</div><div>Thanks,</div><div>David</div><div>
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