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Arrogance at your field?

Old 08-19-2003, 08:36 PM
  #51  
SunShyne
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Default Arrogance at your field?

well I guess im gonna give up on this. Everyone seems to mistake safety issues with I tried to explain. Oh well...
Old 08-19-2003, 08:50 PM
  #52  
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Default Re: Arrogance at your field?

Originally posted by DiabloKid
Snip

Being a newbie I pulled up to hard on takeoff and stalled it. It went over the pits and cam down hard. Besides my lg breaking all was well. Midday they had an informal meeting indicationg they felt many pilots were "out of control" or just unsafe.

Seeing how I was 1 of 2 new guys who made a mistake that day it was geared towards me directly.
Or maybe you just felt that it was pointed at you because you were out of control and crashed? Maybe they were talking about others and didn't want to point fingers! It is possible.

I see it all the time. Someone screws up, someone else rants about something that ticked them off, and the person that screwed up thinks the person is ranting about them.

All I can say is take it with a grain of salt, let your skin get a bit thicker and have fun flying.
Old 08-19-2003, 08:58 PM
  #53  
SunShyne
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Default Arrogance at your field?

its not that at all. Like I said that was over 1 year ago and I used it as an example. I see other forms of it all over the place and I did take it with a grain of salt. Guess no one read or understood the point of the post.

again...oh well..
Old 08-19-2003, 09:13 PM
  #54  
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Default Arrogance at your field?

I do see it, all the time. Know exactly what you are talking about. The thing you have to realize, we don't know your age, but when I was a teenager and in college and could out fly any of the old guys, some tend to not like it and don't give you the time of day. I am 37 now and watch that very carefully. There are kids out there that can fly circles around me, and I am no slouch. They get the same crappy treatment from the older guys who can't do it.

Enjoy the moment, it goes fast. Soon you will be one of the old guys wondering how that kid did that.

It happens.
Old 08-19-2003, 09:24 PM
  #55  
JohnW
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Default Arrogance at your field?

It is sad to hear the story GrnBrt posted about the pattern flyer. That was clearly arrogance. Most of us who fly pattern, like my self, are not like that.

Dialabo, yes, there is a diff between safety and arrogance. However, I get the feeling that many feel that anytime a safety issue is pointed out by anyone other than Chip or Quique it is arrogance. Since none of us are perfect pilots, none of us are allowed to point out a dangerous situation without sounding arrogant? That is the impression I am getting.

Fixtures grumbling under their breath about someone over the pits... you miss the point... THEY WERE OVER THE PITS.

OK, here's one for you. An excellent pilot flys over the pits. As a novice pilot, what do you do? Do you remind the excellent pilot that they are over the pits or do you just let them do what they want. If you remind them, isn't that arrogance by your definition. You are overstating your worth since you are a novice pilot informing an excellent pilot how to fly?

As best I can tell, by the definitions given here, it is IMPOSSIBLE to point out any safety violation without being arrogant... so be it. I'd rather be labeled as arrogant as opposed to looking the other way as pilots fly unsafely.

Safety is EVERYONES responsibility, from novice pilots to the crappy pilots to the TOC pilots. If ANYONE, regardless of skill, sees a safety issue it is their responsibility to inform the offender. Simply and privately if possible inform the pilot of the dangerous situation they caused, make it clear that the offense needs to be avoided in the future, and offer any advice/help the pilot might use to prevent the situation in the future. Obviously you need to tailor this to the pilot. A good pilot probably knows what they just did and should only be reminded of the rule, a novice pilot might need more info than just the rule, such as help.

I'm probably one of best and safest pilots at my field, yet I've had novice pilots point out a safety issues I have caused. I thank them for doing their job and encourage them to confront ANYONE that causes safety issues, including club founders. Arrogance?

Here's a possible solution. The next time you are over the pits, loudly call out the rule violation on yourself. That will preempt the arrogant types. Then when you land, apologize for crossing the flight line. If I was sitting in the pits I'd think worlds of you and you would instantly gain my respect.
Old 08-19-2003, 09:31 PM
  #56  
SunShyne
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Default Arrogance at your field?

John everyone of your points is valid but for the 6oth time I am not trying to confuse safety issues with what my intended post is about. Flyboy is kinda in the ballpark with post #54

I feel like I am beating a dead horse now I will unsubscribe to the thread.

thanks to all who participated and im sorry I could not articulate my point better.

last pilot up is a rotten egg! see you gents in the air!

regards

matt
Old 08-19-2003, 09:37 PM
  #57  
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Post 54? What does that have to do with anything? Are we talking spectator pilots treating you poorly because you can do a rolling loop and they can't or are we talking spectator pilots wishing they had the skill to fly over the pits too? Your example was flying over the pits. Yes, there is arrogance at all fields, but just about every incident listed in this thread is venting that a rule violation was pointed out to them, not that they are treated poorly because of their excellent flying skills.
Old 08-19-2003, 09:49 PM
  #58  
rockmon
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Hey Diablo wish you could come fly with us, heck most of us can't spell arrogance let alone act it (hehe). No the old guy's in our club are newbies so if they were to start acting arrogant they could just hit the road. The club I fly at is not your typical bunch, most of us are under 50, not by much but are under that age and act more like we are 18 or younger. I have been to a couple other clubs that were full of the arrogance thing and wouldn't even let us fly sitting down, imagine that, so we just flew a couple of times and wheeled it because at our club it is a requirement to be kicked back in your chair while you are flying, it looks more like a bunch of guy's at the beach instead of a flying field. You do have to strap yourself in in case you fall asleep just so you don't fall out of your lounge. Uhh nope no arrogance.
Old 08-19-2003, 10:30 PM
  #59  
troyp
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Default Arrogance at your field?

On a recent poll I conducted on this forum asking "Why did you learn to fly alone?" the most common reason was due to not wanting to put up with the usual crap from the "Good Ole Boys" club......I wonder why????
Old 08-19-2003, 10:41 PM
  #60  
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Originally posted by DiabloKid
I see it even when im at a field with no plane and am just an observer.
Yeah, I've seen it too. And funny, It's always the same group, under any circumstance (their buddies and themselves are the exception, of course). We call 'em the "Gestáppö". I often see people greeting them and they won't even acknowledge. I like EASYTIGER's solution and it's prolly how I'd handle it, but I'm afraid that'll only let them know they've got under your skin. I shut 'em up by hovering and t-roll'in 2" from my nose and make them drool over flying in such a way that they can only dream of.
I don't care NEways...I'm there to fly.
Old 08-19-2003, 11:27 PM
  #61  
Low Wing
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Default Gotta say this

Hey Hey Hey...I thought I was the paranoid out here...People in general (who don't know you) will be stand off-ish...It's human nature...I' am the lead officer at our club and I complain to my wife all the time "Honey I hardly got to fly" why? because from the time I get there, until I leave, I'm working the crowd, shaking everybody's hand...listening to everybody's new story...introducing myself to the new guy's HELL saying hello to the spectator's...Making sure everybody feels welcome and wanted...Because they are....We are not by nature forward people...People who huddle together are doing so because that's where their comfort level is...It take's time...I say this from life experience people...I have won over tons of these cat's...time time time...this ain't fast food...Hey YOU' dude that started this thread, come back in six months and tell me things are not different/better...Heck play your people skills right and you'll have em eating out of your hand... ...Those sour puss face's will be smiling and saying here come's our boy...
Old 08-20-2003, 12:04 AM
  #62  
EASYTIGER
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Originally posted by DiabloKid
well I guess im gonna give up on this. Everyone seems to mistake safety issues with I tried to explain. Oh well...
I'm pretty sure I DID understand you, five by five.
This is not a safety issue. This is about arrogant club honchos who give you a needlessly hard time. Screw em. Give them the finger and fly your plane. Nothing is going to make them suddenly accept you, just keep showing up and keep flying and THEY will have to learn to live with you.
***************************
As a seperate issue...if anybody DARES yell at me when I am flying, even if I have made a mistake like flying over the pits, they had BETTER start running the moment I land.
If you have something to say, fine. You might be RIGHT. But the a-holes who YELL at somebody about something when they are trying to fly are OUT OF LINE.
Old 08-20-2003, 12:17 AM
  #63  
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Default Re: what planet our we on here

Originally posted by Low Wing
in reading these posts I get a simple understanding of politics...

Hey' guy's these old grumps hanging on the fence are the same people who brought this hobby to us...Have a little respect...

A...

Yeah, or they COULD be the same nasty crank who was sitting on the fence bothering people all the way back in 1964! Don't confuse being old with being experienced or wise or even kind! SOme are, some aren't!
Old 08-20-2003, 12:21 AM
  #64  
Low Wing
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Default whatever

why are you sapps (out here) throwing gas on the fire...have any of you finger flipp-ers been at a field for more than a month...Once again, don't confuse people being rude with people who haven't had a chance to get to know you...I first served as safety guy at our field and yes I called out corrections(out loud)..."call out your landings and take off's boy's"... "keep it on the other side of the runway please"...If you want to be on a team/club you need to be open for correction...When it come's to somebody possible getting killed rule's and correction are a must...Ever heard of the guy with the chip on their shoulder...that sounds like some of you tell-em to stick it guy's...
Old 08-20-2003, 12:31 AM
  #65  
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Are you just playing devil's advocate, or are you serious? I have been to a few fields and met a few downright RUDE people. A small minority, but they are THERE. Stick around this hobby long enough, and you will meet the guys who the OP is talking about, sooner or later.
Old 08-20-2003, 12:41 AM
  #66  
Crash_N_Burn
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Default Arrogance at your field?

You know what I've discovered?

....There are some nice young people and there are some lousy young people.

....There are some nice old people and there are some lousy old people.

Age didn't change them. Loss of testerone didn't change them. Retirement didn't change them. Family status didn't change them.

They haven't changed!

The way you see them is the way they have always been. If they're nice, they have always been nice. If they are arrogant and contemptful, they have always been that way.

That flying field is a cross section of humanity.

You pay your dues and you take your chances.

(God bless the newbie at some fields as they just entered the bottom of the food chain)
Old 08-20-2003, 01:04 AM
  #67  
Low Wing
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Default ok

Yeah'
Old 08-20-2003, 01:36 AM
  #68  
HoovDriver
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Default Matt check this out

Just read the first few posts and I being a complete noobie know how you feel. I would like to give you my $.02, well actually it's someone elses $.02 here goes

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball. They fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down in the arena are the doers. They make mistakes because they try many things. The man who makes no mistakes lacks boldness and the spirit of adventure. he is the brake on the wheel of progress. And yet it cannot be truly said he makes no mistakes, because his biggest mistake is the very fact that he tries nothing, does nothing, except criticize those who do things."

David M Shoup
General, U.S. Marine Corps

I hope that helped a bit, I being a newly winged Naval Aviator just went through three years where everyhting i did in the cockpit and in the air was nothing but a plethera of well thought out and precise mistakes. No matter how hard I tried my techniques were always wrong in the eyes of the instructor who always had a better way of doing things - his way. Now I find myself in the same boat as you were when you started flying RC; a total newbie and making plenty of mistakes on your way to becoming a master at this great sport. All I can really say is know the rules verbatem and know why they are in effect, try to adhere to them by every means possible and if you make a mistake and break one of them shake it off and go about your business, let the engine tuners whine and complain. There are many differences between accidents caused by mistakes and those caused by ignorance. Take it easy

Zachary Kirby
LTJG USN
Old 08-20-2003, 01:42 AM
  #69  
Tommygun
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Well Diablokid, I'm not sure what anyone here can tell you. Clubs just suck, period. Either deal with all the politics and tubesteaks out there, or don't fly glow. You live in one of the most overcrowded parts of the country, so your other field options are probably limited at best. Renegade fields have all but dissapeared in the NE thanks to all the runaway development. There's a silver lining however. Nowadays, you can buy some pretty decent parkflyers that can be flown at almost any field. Or take up electric helis, they've come a long way too. (That new hummingbird looks cool) That's what I did. After growing sick of dealing with those types at my local field, I decided to call it quits with the glow until I can move somewhere else (preferably south) in a couple years. Maybe that would work for you. Good luck.
Old 08-20-2003, 02:31 AM
  #70  
roywiglesworth
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Default Arrogance at your field?

come on down to fredericksburg va we're about as laid back as you can get you'll have a lot of fun.
roy
Old 08-20-2003, 08:31 AM
  #71  
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Default Arrogance at your field?

a couple of years ago her had saftey officers, but they gave up because of the abuse they got sometimes and that they cant be there all the time, we changedthe rules and now eeveryone is a safety officer, in theory anyone can ground a plane of even kick a member off the field for rule breaking, in practice apart from being able to move cars or the pits if the wind changes, very little is said because your flying with your friends. however, over all saftey has improved, not that some of you guys wouldnt have fit if you came here. we're just more relaxed. flying over the pits will get you an instant responce of calls regardless of how good you are.

"old guys" we used to have one old guy who sadly died a few years ago, he'd moan about the younguns, how you fly, your planes ect, but thats just how he was, once you got to know him he was the most generous person you could ever want to meet, he'd still moan about others, his back, joints, legs ect, price of stuff these days but he'd do all he could to help you out, he more or less ran a model shop from a spare room, LOADS!! of stuff, all at discounted rates he got, and he only charged what he paied. in fact after he died the local model shop had to expand to cope with extra demand.
these guys can be your best friends on the field, but it dosnt mean when you are in that group you have to be mean to the newbies lol
Old 08-20-2003, 11:20 AM
  #72  
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Not all clubs are bad! I belong to three! And out of them, only ONE club really had problem people.
And once I learned to deal with them properly(give them the finger!) my problems with them stopped. They leave me alone, and I fly my planes.
And the REST of the guys at the field are a great bunch of guys!
I definitely enjoy the cameraderie, and sitting around shooting the breeze after flying. Clubs are a good thing!
Nobody says you HAVE to join one, though. For years, I was a solo bootleg flyer at schoolyard fields. But I like it better at the club!
Old 08-20-2003, 11:22 AM
  #73  
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Originally posted by phillybaby
a couple of years ago her had saftey officers, but they gave up because of the abuse they got sometimes and that they cant be there all the time, we changedthe rules and now eeveryone is a safety officer, in theory anyone can ground a plane of even kick a member off the field for rule breaking, in practice apart from being able to move cars or the pits if the wind changes, very little is said because your flying with your friends. however, over all saftey has improved, not that some of you guys wouldnt have fit if you came here. we're just more relaxed. flying over the pits will get you an instant responce of calls regardless of how good you are.

"old guys" we used to have one old guy who sadly died a few years ago, he'd moan about the younguns, how you fly, your planes ect, but thats just how he was, once you got to know him he was the most generous person you could ever want to meet, he'd still moan about others, his back, joints, legs ect, price of stuff these days but he'd do all he could to help you out, he more or less ran a model shop from a spare room, LOADS!! of stuff, all at discounted rates he got, and he only charged what he paied. in fact after he died the local model shop had to expand to cope with extra demand.
these guys can be your best friends on the field, but it dosnt mean when you are in that group you have to be mean to the newbies lol
You bring up an EXCELLENT point. That appointing safety officers (at FBF, they are called, of all things, "Field Marshalls"), is just a bad idea. Giving them official jackets out of Club funds is a DOUBLY bad idea.
A wise man, Joe Beshar, set up a new club in my area, and he made EVERYBODY a field marshall! So EVERYBODY is responsible for enforcing things. He, by the way, excepted HIMSELF. Executive priveledge, you know!
Old 08-20-2003, 11:30 AM
  #74  
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Once again, it depends on the person. I am the safety officer at our club and I am real easy going. It is easier for me because our club is not that active. If we have 3 planes in the air at once, that is really busy for us. I have been officer for 2 years now and have never lashed out at anyone.

Safety is an attitude - I feel that if someone is not deliberately trying to fly in a manner that is unsafe, then I'll let them be.

If anyone ever comes out to our field with a careless attitude for safety and flys recklessly, then they will be hearing from me.
Old 08-20-2003, 11:39 AM
  #75  
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Default Arrogance at your field?

You said it! Come fly at MY field anytime!

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