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Arrogance at your field?

Old 08-20-2003, 01:35 PM
  #76  
Pjtg0707
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Safety issues aside, most bullies on the playgrounds are cowards.

Whenever I go to a new public field with problem people, I'd make a point to project the ' I will stop at nothing to get you' attitude to these people, and they will simply back down. You have to out-bully a bully and sink you teeth into them from time to time.
Old 08-20-2003, 02:08 PM
  #77  
Low Wing
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Default maybe

Maybe we are running this thread into overtime, But' I think it is a great subject...Yes' there have been time's when some new guy has complained to me about somebody not being real nice/short with them...I would always say just give them some time and sure enough they would be hanging...

Hey guy's lets be honest here...There are some freaks that show up at our fields...There are also new people who never seem to get the basic's down...These old grumpy guy's have seen their share of them...I guess I'm making things work where I'm at because it's the only real field worth a crapp in my area...

Can anyone out here admit that new guy's tend to be in a big hurry and that they are not always open for help...New guy's bring a little arrogance with them to the field as well...
Old 08-20-2003, 02:15 PM
  #78  
Joeytrain
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Default Same

Diablo Kid.

I hear what you are saying. We have one of those guys at our
field. We all just chose to start ignoring him and he moved to
another field. Unfortunately he is back now, so I assume he
did the same thing with them.

My suggestion.... Ignore the nuisance. They will get the point, and then some.

Good luck with the flying.
Old 08-20-2003, 07:27 PM
  #79  
JohnW
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Lowwing - "Can anyone out here admit that new guy's tend to be in a big hurry and that they are not always open for help...New guy's bring a little arrogance with them to the field as well..."

In my round about way that was sort of what I was getting at with my posts that most probably thought were arrogant on my part. The tone of most of the examples here is "How dare some long time member tell me (a novice) that I did something wrong." That is indeed arrogance, but on the part of the novice pilot. I don't think you'll get too many to admit to that since the believe their unsafe flying should not be scolded and they don't require help, that is until they crash and then it is "Why didn't you help me?"

I don't care what aspect of life you examine, you will always find someone you don't get along with... just deal with it. I know pilots that refuse to fly if "John Doe" is at the field because they can't stand him... how stupid. Same goes for those that prefer to fly alone because they can't stand belonging to a club, maybe the problem is with THEM not the club.

Ya know, there is a old "arrogant" type at our filed. At first, he annoyed me with his comments, but once I got to know him I realized he was really quite interesting. Yes, he is opinionated, loud, and sometimes harsh, but he is very funny and had tons of neat aviation stories as he was a pilot for most his life. He is quite ill now and only makes it to the field about once a month. Many who refused to discover who he really is will probably dance on his grave, I'll miss him.
Old 08-20-2003, 07:38 PM
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Johnnylightning
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Default Arrogance at your field?

Originally posted by MonkeyBoy
I don't care what aspect of life you examine, you will always find someone you don't get along with... just deal with it.
No tolerance for abuse...They WILL get the finger.
Old 08-21-2003, 02:04 AM
  #81  
jr10x
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Default At the Field

Is this more of ignorance than arrogance of the attitude of club members?


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Old 08-21-2003, 11:27 AM
  #82  
Goinstraightup
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Default Re: maybe

Originally posted by Low Wing
Can anyone out here admit that new guy's tend to be in a big hurry and that they are not always open for help...New guy's bring a little arrogance with them to the field as well...
That reminds me of something that happened at our field:

I'll never forget the first day out in the '96 flying season. I had a student with me and the trainer. When we got to the field, there were 2 cars parked on the opposite end of where we normally fly. Several quite rough looking guys were working on a .20 size plane. I rolled down the window and asked what channel they were on and if they needed any help. The one guy looked over to the other guy and said, "I told you he would ask what channel we were on". After looking for a minute, they told me their channel and in a very snotty way said that they didn't want any help. So I went with the student over to the normal flying area and instructed for a good while. It was kind of cold out yet, but we must have flew for a good 45 min to an hour. All the while this is going on the crew on the other side of the field is still working on their plane. We pack up and once again pass them on our way out. Trying once again to be nice, I roll down the window and ask if they need help. The guy was real mean and said, "I told you before I didn't need any help". We rolled off. In the end it was their loss. They're the ones that never got to fly. It's too bad. I tried to help.
Old 08-21-2003, 12:28 PM
  #83  
Pjtg0707
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Default Re: Re: maybe

Originally posted by Goinstraightup
That reminds me of something that happened at our field:

--snipped----

We pack up and once again pass them on our way out. Trying once again to be nice, I roll down the window and ask if they need help. The guy was real mean and said, "I told you before I didn't need any help". We rolled off. In the end it was their loss. They're the ones that never got to fly. It's too bad. I tried to help.
So, did you offer help with a smirk and distain on your face? Much of the message is in the delivery as well.

Alot of people I saw at the local public field lack much social skill or any kind of manners, and they think people should grateful just because they offer to 'help'.

Social interaction is a two way street. You offered help, and they turned it down. They have no obligation to receive help from you or anyone, so what's the big deal?
Old 08-21-2003, 02:17 PM
  #84  
Goinstraightup
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Default Re: Re: Re: maybe

Originally posted by Pjtg0707
So, did you offer help with a smirk and distain on your face? Much of the message is in the delivery as well.
I asked very nice.

No, no one is obligated to accept help. I'm just saying that if they wouldn't have been so arrogant, and accepted my help, they might have been able to fly, instead they messed with an engine for over an hour. I think we can agree that flying is better than messing with engines.............

Also, I only asked. If I would have been pushy about it, I would have gone right over to the plane and started giving directives like some people. Oh well, I have a great group of students right now. I soloed two last week....
Old 08-21-2003, 02:21 PM
  #85  
Pjtg0707
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: maybe

Originally posted by Goinstraightup
I asked very nice.

---------snipped--------------

Also, I only asked. If I would have been pushy about it, I would have gone right over to the plane and started giving directives like some people.
I guess you know the type of people I am refering to. it's a classic example of arrogant behavior.
Old 08-21-2003, 03:21 PM
  #86  
stang51
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Default Arrogance at your field?

We had a younger fellow (new guy to us) show up at our field and promptly walked up and down the flight line telling us what was wrong with out models. This from a guy who glued his receiver to the balsa in his model so it wouldn't "slide around".

After he couldn't get his engine started we relented and offered to help him. We got him airborne and an instructor stood by to check him out as he told us he was an "expert" flier.

The model kept getting farther and farther away and he would not give control to the instructor. Finally he admitted he couldn't see the model anymore and handed the radio to the instructor.
Well, the instructor tried, but couldn't tell what attitude the aircraft was in because of the distance the model was now at.
I took over (I don't know why) and the only thing I could see was a flash of sunlight off the wings occasionally as I tried to establish its orientation. I put the radio down, turned to this newbie and said, "well, that's a goner".
He swore at us for losing his model and jumped into his 4x4 and took off after it. Well this guy is so much fun that we took off after him.
About 3 miles away there was a swampy area and he drove up to the edge where some folks were having a small campfire.
He asked them if they saw a model airplane and they said no, but they had seen a white duck land in the water,
Hmmm, "white duck" We looked and you could see the model floating in a small channel of water.
The newbie said, "I'll get it!", jumped into his 4x4, drove over an embankment and buried his truck up to the windows in the swamp.
I left and went back to the field laughing all the way.
I just love newbies, tee hee
Old 08-21-2003, 03:34 PM
  #87  
Cactus.
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Default Arrogance at your field?

great story

just remembered yesterday when i went to the field, a few new faces, tourists? one was standing on the edge of the pits flying ( could be fun landing ), another guy ( one i know as a member ) was on the edge of the patch where he should be, there where also two peg boards out with some pegs on one, more on the normal board... so as things wern't dangerous i laied out my stuff, walked through the pits saying hi to these new guys till i got to the flier in the pits, said hi, just asked if he would mind moving to the patch.
ah is that where i'm meant to be? ok no probs.
good, thats that done with no arrogance taken or given.
next the peg boards. after this guy landed i just asked if some of the pegs from the board were missing and thats why they had out the other
no he said, there were two, isn't this a peg swap system?
oops, no i said, its peg off, we don't use this board anymore. i sorted it out and put the other away.. i didn't mention that it could be taken that the other board was also spare pegs and a shoot down might happen coz it wasn't in danger of happening at that moment.
everyone was happy, i was then happy with the safety too.

thats how i like it done


talking to these new guys was good, i don't normally do that, wern't tourists, just members that don't come out much, esp not weekends.
Old 08-24-2003, 07:40 PM
  #88  
CrispyCritter
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Default Arrogance at your field?

I did not read all of these post but how about this one for arrogance. What about the pilots who are air hogs. They don't care who is flying or how long they have been flying. (either that flight or career wise) They are going to fly no matter what. It is like they are the only ones at the field. We have a couple of them that pal together. Unfortunatley, a couple of weeks ago one of them shot down the other one and destroyed a classic plane. I wasn't at the event but was told about it by a person who was. I wonder if a lesson was learned.
Old 08-25-2003, 07:57 PM
  #89  
Johnnylightning
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Default Arrogance at your field?

You know, I think we're getting a little too carried away with this.
I learned something very important while flying this weekend. Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures.
Always remember, when someone annoys you it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and "*****-slap" that mother@#?!&! upside the head!
Old 08-25-2003, 09:55 PM
  #90  
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Default Arrogance at your field?

We have a new one that tells everyone he is an expert. Clearly he isn't. It is pretty funny to watch sometimes. Kinda scarey though.
Old 12-08-2003, 12:56 PM
  #91  
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Default RE: Arrogance at your field?

Some don'ts about newbie's.

1. Don't run up to someone trying to get ready for the nationals and start bugging them about their plane.
(The mans under enough stress already)
2. Don't blow all over someone's pit because you're too lazy to take your plane out and turn it 90 degrees.
3. Don't fly over the pits, don't crash in the pits, don't start fires in the pits and for gawd sakes don't let your
dog, child, three wheel motor scooter loose in the pits. I am not your baby sitter/nanny/dog
catcher/pooper picker upper/tour director.
4. Don't mess with someone's radio, don't turn the knobs, flip the switches, and tweak the gimbals.
5. If I want your help (and I often pick someone out of the crowd) I'll ask you.
6. If I crash don't run out to the crash site like a retriever and start picking up stuff as fast as you can.
its bad enough that I crashed worse if you destroy the crash scene and I don't have all my equipment.
7. Don't come out to the field driving a $50,000.00 350HP Lexus SUV dragging a disinterested teenager and
$80.00 worth RC equipment on a 20mph day and expect to get the royal treatment as far as stick time.
8. Don't come to the field smelling obviously drunk and expect for me to give you my undivided attention.
9. Don't bring a Zagi out to the opposite side of the field and try to fly while we are using the frequency box
because your too embarrassed to fly in front of a crowd. This is a flying field not a crashing field. You want
make enemies fast this is a sure fire way to do it.
10. And lastly don't ever think we don't like newbie's, everybody should have some.


LOL now don't take all this too serious because I don't, I have done some of the above and had it done to me.



JDS
Old 12-08-2003, 01:13 PM
  #92  
Tommygun
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Default RE: Arrogance at your field?

[quote]ORIGINAL: cap10b

7. Don't come out to the field driving a $50,000.00 350HP Lexus SUV dragging a disinterested teenager and
$80.00 worth RC equipment on a 20mph day and expect to get the royal treatment as far as stick time.


Sounds like there was an interesting story behind that one....care to elaborate?
Old 12-08-2003, 02:31 PM
  #93  
cap10b
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Default RE: Arrogance at your field?

Sure,
Our club for some strange reason sits in the burbs between Dallas and Ft.Worth and we have allot of professionals that live out there. You see them all the time driving up in late model cars with the local HS stickers on the windows ect...

Well this guy comes out with his kid and they are obviously not poor. They drive up in said vehicle and out pops a Wattage trainer. The dad wanders thru the pits and everyone advises him I am he designated trainer.
We shake hands blah blah blah. ( I was not the first choice for pilot two other people turned him down and the chief pilot of the club told him that his equipment was to small to teach on)

He says:
1. Teach the kid to fly on this little electric plane (no buddy box) have to pass the transmitter.
2. Little electric has battery problems, had to send him over to the battery guys (Zagi nuts) to put
some juice on his pack.
3. The kid is disinterested because he is obviously embarrassed that his DAD couldn't or wouldn't spring for a
.40 size trainer (the local shops have a deal for the whole package radio and all for like $300.00 something)
4. By the time he bought batteries and chargers he could have bought the $300.000 trainer.

5. We finally get airborne and I trim the plane on the climb out and hand the radio over to the kid he makes a 180 and the batteries are dying.

6. After three more attempts I tell them what the chief pilot of the club said. You cannot teach on this plane it's too small.

7. Dad says he bought this because he was not sure if the kid was interested or not (obviously he was wrong we went up later on my full house .40 trainer on a box the kid flew great).

DAD AND HIS POST THIRTIES DEPRESSION MENTALITY....... LOL what a hassle......just to fly.

Moral to the story - Believe what the chief pilot tells you thats why he is chief pilot !! LOL


jds
Old 12-08-2003, 03:18 PM
  #94  
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Default RE: Arrogance at your field?

Reply to CAP10 top 10 list, I have seen almost all of that happen as well, but not by newbies, but pilots with enough stick time that they should know better.
Old 12-08-2003, 03:40 PM
  #95  
Cheech
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Default RE: Arrogance at your field?

I've gone to public flying fields all over Chicago. I have never felt as unwelcome at a field as I do at a local public field, Deer Grove, and the club that operates it. The field at Deer Grove is a good place to sometimes hook up. It's not my home field. That was the deal earlier this year.

It's a nice field, but I've had alot of problems there. I’ve been to their public field many times. My sons usually come also. We’re not members of the club. Back this Spring I got treated rudely again by a member of the local club. I have to tell you, it really makes me mad. We swore the place off for the season and never returned this year.

This Spring had been the worst. Either my sons or I have been told that we’re not following the “rules” almost every time we have been out. Seems that the “rules” we’ve broken are about preferred flying styles, where to pit, where to park, etc… I have always considered myself a safe, courteous flyer. My sons are the same. Their issues had nothibg to do with safety.

What I really want to know from these club members is WHERE ARE ALL THESE RULES??? They sure are NOT the rules posted on the board at the flying site. Those are fairly brief and pretty standard fare. If a club has things you want done, let people know nicely. On the last day I was there I got absolutely lambasted by some jerk about leaving my car down in the drive. With six other cars in down there, how on EARTH was I supposed to know that I needed to move mine.

The session prior to that my teenage son got bit about “flying the pattern”. He was the only plane in the sky at the time. And wow is he a SAFE flyer. You don’t always see that. A couple weeks ago I got chewed for trying to retrieve a screwdriver shaft that went down one of the new pit stations.

If a club has special unwritten rules about flying a pattern, parking a car or pitting an aircraft, let people know. If you can’t post them, then be a diplomat about conveying the information. AND THEN APPLY THEM EQUALLY. No special favors or good-old-boy stuff.

To get gnawed on by the people at Deer Grove is no fun. The friendly atmosphere they tout on the front page of their website does not exist. I can get treated bad at home. I have to deal with crap at work. I am NOT looking for that same experience out at the flying field.

-Mark-
Old 12-08-2003, 05:22 PM
  #96  
cap10b
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Default RE: Arrogance at your field?

Mark
We got one of those clubs close to us too. In fact I drive further to get to my field now rather than go there.
All I can say is one day there may be a shot from Grassy Knoll......LOL


jds
Old 12-09-2003, 07:57 AM
  #97  
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Default RE: Arrogance at your field?

Man I love flying at home alone.
My only critic is any of my 3 kids or wife.
If a kid laughs at me.... I ground em.
If wife laughs at me ..... I cut her off for a month.
ya right!
The longer I'm in this hobby the more of a recluse I become.
No rules
No rudeness
No arrogance
No liability issues
All the stick time ya want.

I love it.
Old 12-09-2003, 08:55 AM
  #98  
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Default RE: Arrogance at your field?

It never changes!, someone new shows up and I see all the seniors turn there heads and give that look of despair, like dennis the menis just showed up saying "hey mister wilson!". They make the newbee feel uneasy and just sit there shouting complaints and forgetting all the bad things that were said to them when they started, it's almost like the newbee has to prove himself to the hazing and abuse of the veterans before being accepted. My thoughts on this, find a field that people are willing to help you(like you did).Get better at flying your plane and don't fly over the pit's anymore, I almost got hit by a newbee that was having trouble landing and was too scared and nervous to say so. Just tell the seniors that "ONCE THE MASTER WAS A BEGINNER". If they say anything rude, contact the president and make it herd at the next meeting, NOT ALL the members feel the same way as the loiters your talking about. It's a 50/50 case the seniors should have helped you learn the ropes and give you the direction you needed and you should not assume that their all the same. Yes the loiters that your talking about do tinker with their engines alot b/c they usually date back to the turn of the century like them and tend to be finicky like them![:-]
Old 12-09-2003, 09:25 AM
  #99  
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Default RE: Arrogance at your field?

Diablo

What field was this at? Most of the guys at NVRC are very friendly, and always ready to help a newbie out. I am the recently elected Pres of NVRC and would most certainly be willing to help a new guy out. We recently aquired two club trainers and will be offering free introductory flights to people who just show up and are interested in the hobby. We want them to get started on the right foot, and will of course discuss safety issues before taking them up.

Terry Tarkington
President NVRC

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