Standing position for take off
04-05-2013, 08:20 AM
#27
RE: Standing position for take off
You are drawing your own conclusion that all fliers who do this are not competent pilots.
Tell that to the veteran pilots where I fly who do this the first time when taking up a plane that has never flown and they are not sure how it will react once off the ground.
The English dictionary clearly defines both words and their distinctly different meanings as well:
vet·er·an
noun \ˈve-tə-rən, ˈve-trən\
Definition of VETERAN
1a : an old soldier of long service
b : a former member of the armed forces
2 : a person of long experience usually in some occupation or skill (as politics or the arts)
com·pe·tent
adjective \ˈkäm-pə-tənt\
Definition of COMPETENT
1: proper or rightly pertinent
2: having requisite or adequate ability or qualities : fit
3: legally qualified or adequate
4: having the capacity to function or develop in a particular way; specifically : having the capacity to respond
In my experience, a COMPETENT veteran pilot is an amazing wealth of skill and knowledge and is a HUGE asset to our hobby. An INCOMPETENT veteran pilot is simply what I refer to as a FOG and is a detriment to our hobby.
Simply stated, I believe a competent pilot does not need to know how his plane will react on takeoff to be able to safely control it, he will use his competency to guide the plane where he wants it to go.
Regards,
Astro
04-05-2013, 08:22 AM
#28
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: ZAGNUT
from the above i'm going to assume that you also have a problem with things like servo reversing, dual rates, ATV, iron on covering, etc., etc.
ORIGINAL: astrohog
I find it odd that the debate here seems to be whether the act of standing at the end of the runway behind the plane during take-off is ''safe'' or not.
As I mentioned earlier (and a couple others have alluded to), the REAL safety issue is WHY does that pilot have to do that? People have stated, ''It makes it easier''. When did EASIER become ''better'' or ''safer''? I see this trend creeping into every aspect of our society today and I find it disturbing and alarming!
With just about anything that each of us are free to choose to do, there comes a responsibility to act responsibly in order to assure that nobody else is potentially affected or harmed. In order to assure our continued freedoms, it is each of our responsibilities to act accordingly. In this instance, it is NOT fair or safe to the other flyers to ''bend'' the normal procedures and rules to allow one person a crutch to fly his plane because it is ''easier''. PERIOD! That pilot needs further training and has not EARNED the right to fly that particular plane until he can do so without special considerations.
If I were to witness such behavior at my field, I would not feel that the pilot had reasonable and adequate control of any of his planes at any time, and would simply pack my things and head home. Hardly fair to me, no?
Basically, that pilot is saying, I REALLY WANT to fly my latest, whiz-bang aircraft, but I do not posess the skills, so I will take a shortcut and do it the ''easy'' way. It's like the person who repeatedly fails their drivers' test, but decides it's okay to drive since they happen to have a car!
THIS IS NOT RIGHT OR FAIR TO THE REST OF THE CLUB MEMBERS....PERIOD!
Regards,
Astrohog
I find it odd that the debate here seems to be whether the act of standing at the end of the runway behind the plane during take-off is ''safe'' or not.
As I mentioned earlier (and a couple others have alluded to), the REAL safety issue is WHY does that pilot have to do that? People have stated, ''It makes it easier''. When did EASIER become ''better'' or ''safer''? I see this trend creeping into every aspect of our society today and I find it disturbing and alarming!
With just about anything that each of us are free to choose to do, there comes a responsibility to act responsibly in order to assure that nobody else is potentially affected or harmed. In order to assure our continued freedoms, it is each of our responsibilities to act accordingly. In this instance, it is NOT fair or safe to the other flyers to ''bend'' the normal procedures and rules to allow one person a crutch to fly his plane because it is ''easier''. PERIOD! That pilot needs further training and has not EARNED the right to fly that particular plane until he can do so without special considerations.
If I were to witness such behavior at my field, I would not feel that the pilot had reasonable and adequate control of any of his planes at any time, and would simply pack my things and head home. Hardly fair to me, no?
Basically, that pilot is saying, I REALLY WANT to fly my latest, whiz-bang aircraft, but I do not posess the skills, so I will take a shortcut and do it the ''easy'' way. It's like the person who repeatedly fails their drivers' test, but decides it's okay to drive since they happen to have a car!
THIS IS NOT RIGHT OR FAIR TO THE REST OF THE CLUB MEMBERS....PERIOD!
Regards,
Astrohog
Only in the BIZARRO world of RCU, could one stretch to that conclusion!
Astro
04-05-2013, 08:35 AM
#30
RE: Standing position for take off
I don't even do maidens from behind my plane, I find it easier to judge speed and attitude from the flight box. Unless the plane has some real problems, I'm more concerned with speed and attitude, which are best judged from a perpendicular view point. I've never seen anyone else stand behind the plane for take off, but if someone wanted to be behind their plane, all they need do is communicate thier intentions and we would give them the room and time to do so.
04-05-2013, 08:40 AM
#31
RE: Standing position for take off
I and the competent veteran pilots will continue to takeoff planes standing behind them when we feel it's necessary. You can continue sitting in the chair arguing minutiae all day long with the other "like minded" folks at your field.! 
04-05-2013, 08:54 AM
#32
Senior Member
My Feedback: (26)
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: flyinwalenda
I and the competent veteran pilots will continue to takeoff planes standing behind them when we feel it's necessary. You can continue sitting in the chair arguing minutiae all day long with the other ''like minded'' folks at your field.! [img][/img]
I and the competent veteran pilots will continue to takeoff planes standing behind them when we feel it's necessary. You can continue sitting in the chair arguing minutiae all day long with the other ''like minded'' folks at your field.! [img][/img]
04-05-2013, 09:09 AM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: York, UNITED KINGDOM
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RE: Standing position for take off
Well, I suppose that I'm a veteran flyer now.
I am assuredly a very competent flyer.
IMO, the best and safest place to be is behind the aeroplane, during departure.
Who's to say that I'm wrong?
I am assuredly a very competent flyer.
IMO, the best and safest place to be is behind the aeroplane, during departure.
Who's to say that I'm wrong?
04-05-2013, 09:10 AM
#34
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Danbury,
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RE: Standing position for take off
We allow it at our field only when its a new plane to be maidened if they feel the need to. Its allowed since the runways is only a few feet away from a pilots station (a simple utility cone), and we do require another person to still stand next to the pilot during this first flight for any assistance. During this time, no one else is allowed to fly, until after this maiden flight,then its back to the pilot station.
04-05-2013, 09:10 AM
#35
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: flycatch
Funny you mention chair because I have seen one to many people doing just that. Should people who fly sitting down be banned?
ORIGINAL: flyinwalenda
I and the competent veteran pilots will continue to takeoff planes standing behind them when we feel it's necessary. You can continue sitting in the chair arguing minutiae all day long with the other ''like minded'' folks at your field.! [img][/img]
I and the competent veteran pilots will continue to takeoff planes standing behind them when we feel it's necessary. You can continue sitting in the chair arguing minutiae all day long with the other ''like minded'' folks at your field.! [img][/img]
There are two gimpy fliers who use chairs at the field when flying and it would be easy to make the argument they are not competent fliers , well,....because they aren't ! They go out with a competent pilot (you know, one of those guys who occasionally stand behind a plane to take it off
) who also sits in a chair next to them. These two guys do their best and have fun and the only thing they have harmed doing it is their own plane.
04-05-2013, 09:33 AM
#37
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: Chad Veich
Watch a few YouTube videos of model events overseas and you will quickly find this to be a very common practice outside the USA. As noted by Rodney it does not have to be an unsafe practice if the rules are designed to account for it. WhileI don't do it, and am not particularly in favor of it, I can see where it may actually be safer in some instances, such as test flights, where it is easier for the pilot to keep the airplane going down the runway instead of into the pit area.
Watch a few YouTube videos of model events overseas and you will quickly find this to be a very common practice outside the USA. As noted by Rodney it does not have to be an unsafe practice if the rules are designed to account for it. WhileI don't do it, and am not particularly in favor of it, I can see where it may actually be safer in some instances, such as test flights, where it is easier for the pilot to keep the airplane going down the runway instead of into the pit area.
It is something done quite often overseas, and has nothing to do with ones ability to fly said plane. Look at this vid starting at around 3:30.
You guys out there armchairing, saying that they can't fly if that's the way they're taken off are killing me lol.
http://youtu.be/-bM7E5P4bDw
I have done so in the past, probably will do so again in the future. I don't have too, but sometimes it is convenient. I would never do so with other planes flying in a pattern
Casey
04-05-2013, 09:38 AM
#38
RE: Standing position for take off
Should I make the popcorn?
What about the person who flies from a wheel chair? The one with 1 arm? If launching a plane from behind makes you go home well then I guess that leaves more airspace for me
Common sense rules period! As long as you don't stand in the middle of the runway hovering (heli, 3d) I'm good.
Tail touching in the middle of the runway[:@]
04-05-2013, 09:53 AM
#40
RE: Standing position for take off
To the folks that say they are competent AND will continue to take off from behind their planes I will gladly agree to disagree.
However, it will always remain a FACT that if you HAVE to take off from behind your plane, you are INCOMPETENT to take off from the pilot station. How much simpler can it be explained?
You can always say that you PREFER to take off from that orientation, but if you were truly COMPETENT, there simply wouldn't be a NEED to! I personally don't care WHAT words you use to justify not being able to fly from the pilot stations, or even that you insist on flying from the runway, I just wish you would be honest enough with your fellow flyers to say, "I am not capable of controlling my aircraft during takeoff from the flight station, so do you mind if I fly from the runway?"
Just to be clear, I am not ARGUING here, because the English language is VERY specific, one just needs to learn how to use it properly in order to communicate effectively!
Regards,
Astro
However, it will always remain a FACT that if you HAVE to take off from behind your plane, you are INCOMPETENT to take off from the pilot station. How much simpler can it be explained?
You can always say that you PREFER to take off from that orientation, but if you were truly COMPETENT, there simply wouldn't be a NEED to! I personally don't care WHAT words you use to justify not being able to fly from the pilot stations, or even that you insist on flying from the runway, I just wish you would be honest enough with your fellow flyers to say, "I am not capable of controlling my aircraft during takeoff from the flight station, so do you mind if I fly from the runway?"
Just to be clear, I am not ARGUING here, because the English language is VERY specific, one just needs to learn how to use it properly in order to communicate effectively!
Regards,
Astro
04-05-2013, 09:59 AM
#41
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: glazier808
It is something done quite often overseas, and has nothing to do with ones ability to fly said plane. Look at this vid starting at around 3:30.
You guys out there armchairing, saying that they can't fly if that's the way they're taken off are killing me lol.
http://youtu.be/-bM7E5P4bDw
I have done so in the past, probably will do so again in the future. I don't have too, but sometimes it is convenient. I would never do so with other planes flying in a pattern
Casey
It is something done quite often overseas, and has nothing to do with ones ability to fly said plane. Look at this vid starting at around 3:30.
You guys out there armchairing, saying that they can't fly if that's the way they're taken off are killing me lol.
http://youtu.be/-bM7E5P4bDw
I have done so in the past, probably will do so again in the future. I don't have too, but sometimes it is convenient. I would never do so with other planes flying in a pattern
Casey
Please explain how it has nothing to do with their ability? IF they have the ability to fly from the pilot station, why AREN'T they?
You mentioned it being, "convenient". Please qualify that statement for me because I simply cannot understand how going out of the way to take off from the runway is more "convenient" than flying from the pilot station????
Regards,
Astro
04-05-2013, 10:06 AM
#43
My Feedback: (551)
RE: Standing position for take off
I have been the club test pilot for many years, and one of the things I have learned is that reaching flying speed at take off is critical to a successful first flight. Or any flight. Taking off directly away from the pilot and landing directly toward the pilot have one major flaw. You can't tell how fast the airplane is going, and thus you can't tell when you have reached flying (or landing) speed. I would never jeopardize the airplane and the bystanders by standing behind the plane, but I fly from hard surface runways where I can let the airplane run for a while until it starts to get light on its wheels and I know it will fly without stalling.
But if your runway is long grass or other soft surface and requires the "full throttle and full up" takeoff technique, standing behind the airplane probably works as well as standing on the flight line. Perhaps better because the "goose it and go" technique tends to generate a lot of premature lift-offs with the resulting tip stall and uncontrolled flight, which can be better controlled from that perspective.
So clearly the right "standing position" depends on the runway conditions and every field is different.
Jim
But if your runway is long grass or other soft surface and requires the "full throttle and full up" takeoff technique, standing behind the airplane probably works as well as standing on the flight line. Perhaps better because the "goose it and go" technique tends to generate a lot of premature lift-offs with the resulting tip stall and uncontrolled flight, which can be better controlled from that perspective.
So clearly the right "standing position" depends on the runway conditions and every field is different.
Jim
04-05-2013, 10:06 AM
#44
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: astrohog
Please explain how it has nothing to do with their ability? IF they have the ability to fly from the pilot station, why AREN'T they?
You mentioned it being, ''convenient''. Please qualify that statement for me because I simply cannot understand how going out of the way to take off from the runway is more ''convenient'' than flying from the pilot station????
Regards,
Astro
ORIGINAL: glazier808
It is something done quite often overseas, and has nothing to do with ones ability to fly said plane. Look at this vid starting at around 3:30.
You guys out there armchairing, saying that they can't fly if that's the way they're taken off are killing me lol.
http://youtu.be/-bM7E5P4bDw
I have done so in the past, probably will do so again in the future. I don't have too, but sometimes it is convenient. I would never do so with other planes flying in a pattern
Casey
It is something done quite often overseas, and has nothing to do with ones ability to fly said plane. Look at this vid starting at around 3:30.
You guys out there armchairing, saying that they can't fly if that's the way they're taken off are killing me lol.
http://youtu.be/-bM7E5P4bDw
I have done so in the past, probably will do so again in the future. I don't have too, but sometimes it is convenient. I would never do so with other planes flying in a pattern
Casey
Please explain how it has nothing to do with their ability? IF they have the ability to fly from the pilot station, why AREN'T they?
You mentioned it being, ''convenient''. Please qualify that statement for me because I simply cannot understand how going out of the way to take off from the runway is more ''convenient'' than flying from the pilot station????
Regards,
Astro
04-05-2013, 10:11 AM
#45
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: glazier808
For one that has such a commanding use of the English language, you should know what you are doing is assuming that these pilots are incompetent and have to take off from that position.
For one that has such a commanding use of the English language, you should know what you are doing is assuming that these pilots are incompetent and have to take off from that position.
I assumed nothing, please answer as I am very curious......
Astro
04-05-2013, 10:19 AM
#47
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: glazier808
Once again you started off with the assumption that I was flying from the clubs field when I was actually flying from a private strip, with groves of black walnuts on either side.
ORIGINAL: astrohog
Please explain how it has nothing to do with their ability? IF they have the ability to fly from the pilot station, why AREN'T they?
You mentioned it being, ''convenient''. Please qualify that statement for me because I simply cannot understand how going out of the way to take off from the runway is more ''convenient'' than flying from the pilot station????
Regards,
Astro
ORIGINAL: glazier808
It is something done quite often overseas, and has nothing to do with ones ability to fly said plane. Look at this vid starting at around 3:30.
You guys out there armchairing, saying that they can't fly if that's the way they're taken off are killing me lol.
http://youtu.be/-bM7E5P4bDw
I have done so in the past, probably will do so again in the future. I don't have too, but sometimes it is convenient. I would never do so with other planes flying in a pattern
Casey
It is something done quite often overseas, and has nothing to do with ones ability to fly said plane. Look at this vid starting at around 3:30.
You guys out there armchairing, saying that they can't fly if that's the way they're taken off are killing me lol.
http://youtu.be/-bM7E5P4bDw
I have done so in the past, probably will do so again in the future. I don't have too, but sometimes it is convenient. I would never do so with other planes flying in a pattern
Casey
Please explain how it has nothing to do with their ability? IF they have the ability to fly from the pilot station, why AREN'T they?
You mentioned it being, ''convenient''. Please qualify that statement for me because I simply cannot understand how going out of the way to take off from the runway is more ''convenient'' than flying from the pilot station????
Regards,
Astro
If you were flying from a private strip with no pilot stations, your scenario really doesn't help this discussion, does it?
Regards,
Astro
04-05-2013, 10:21 AM
#48
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: hugger-4641
I don't even do maidens from behind my plane, I find it easier to judge speed and attitude from the flight box. Unless the plane has some real problems, I'm more concerned with speed and attitude, which are best judged from a perpendicular view point. I've never seen anyone else stand behind the plane for take off, but if someone wanted to be behind their plane, all they need do is communicate thier intentions and we would give them the room and time to do so.
I don't even do maidens from behind my plane, I find it easier to judge speed and attitude from the flight box. Unless the plane has some real problems, I'm more concerned with speed and attitude, which are best judged from a perpendicular view point. I've never seen anyone else stand behind the plane for take off, but if someone wanted to be behind their plane, all they need do is communicate thier intentions and we would give them the room and time to do so.
04-05-2013, 10:25 AM
#49
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: glazier808
Well I'll leave that up to you to assume as that seems to be your area of expertise.(I was going to say forte but that's not using English)
[:@]
Casey
Well I'll leave that up to you to assume as that seems to be your area of expertise.(I was going to say forte but that's not using English)
[:@]
Casey
That is what I thought! WHO is the armchair guy now? I know, I get it, it is much easier to sit behind the screen (or in this case, stand behind your plane!) and be the hotshot, know-it-all pilot-guy, but when asked to answer a simple question, you simply cannot!
Keep avoiding the questions and trying to deflect and derail this thread from the topic at hand by making statements about what you perceive me to be assuming!
Regards,
Astro
04-05-2013, 10:26 AM
#50
RE: Standing position for take off
ORIGINAL: glazier808
Well I'll leave that up to you to assume as that seems to be your area of expertise.(I was going to say forte but that's not using English)
[:@]
Casey
Well I'll leave that up to you to assume as that seems to be your area of expertise.(I was going to say forte but that's not using English)
[:@]
Casey
You can leave it up to me to assume, or you could simply answer the question!
Astro