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Standing position for take off

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Standing position for take off

Old 04-05-2013, 10:28 AM
  #51  
glazier808
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

So sorry how rude of me....

Hi I'm Casey and I Luft addict....


Now that's out-of-the-way...

Perhaps you missed the fact that that OP is from New Zealand. As you and several others have established, the standing procedure in the US is to use the pilot station, except for under special circumstances. I totally agree with, and adhere to these procedures myself, except under special circumstances, as described above.

With the use of the video, I was hoping to show that (outside the US), it is not necessarily the standard practice.

Perhaps it is just a case of "when in Rome"

Casey
Old 04-05-2013, 10:28 AM
  #52  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: hugger-4641

I don't even do maidens from behind my plane, I find it easier to judge speed and attitude from the flight box. Unless the plane has some real problems, I'm more concerned with speed and attitude, which are best judged from a perpendicular view point. I've never seen anyone else stand behind the plane for take off, but if someone wanted to be behind their plane, all they need do is communicate thier intentions and we would give them the room and time to do so.
(jrf): I have been the club test pilot for many years, and one of the things I have learned is that reaching flying speed at take off is critical to a successful first flight. Or any flight. Taking off directly away from the pilot and landing directly toward the pilot have one major flaw. You can't tell how fast the airplane is going, and thus you can't tell when you have reached flying (or landing) speed. I would never jeopardize the airplane and the bystanders by standing behind the plane, but I fly from hard surface runways where I can let the airplane run for a while until it starts to get light on its wheels and I know it will fly without stalling.
Hugger and jrf have the keys to this discussion. They are correct - having the true 3D view of the plane during takeoff puts the pilot in the optimum position to react to every action of the plane. If you are behind it, you are getting more of a two dimensional view of the action.
Old 04-05-2013, 10:39 AM
  #53  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: glazier808

So sorry how rude of me....

Hi I'm Casey and I Luft addict....


Now that's out-of-the-way...

Perhaps you missed the fact that that OP is from New Zealand. As you and several others have established, the standing procedure in the US is to use the pilot station, except for under special circumstances. I totally agree with, and adhere to these procedures myself, except under special circumstances, as described above.

With the use of the video, I was hoping to show that (outside the US), it is not necessarily the standard practice.

Perhaps it is just a case of ''when in Rome''

Casey
Again, you failed to answer the question I asked.. I guess you leave me no choice but to ASSUME you don't have an answer!

I guess I am failing to understand what New Zealand has to do with this? Maybe they fly the "opposite toilet bowl pattern?"

Astro
Old 04-05-2013, 10:47 AM
  #54  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Just to be clear.....I could care less how people want to take off.

The discussion we were having was regarding a pilots' ability to control their plane. My experience has taught me that if one has to take off from behind their plane, they are definitely lacking certain skills required to control their aircraft under any circumstance or eventuality that may arise on any given flight. You disagreed and said it had nothing to do with a pilots skill. I replied with a question to you about why someone would CHOOSE to take off from behind their plane if they have the ability to take off from the approved pilot stations. IF they have the ability to take off from the pilot stations, I can see NO reason to do otherwise. Apparently you do not either, because you continue to avoid the question.

Regards,

Astro
Old 04-05-2013, 11:10 AM
  #55  
glazier808
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Just to be clear...
the reason why I cannot give you a definitive answer to your question is because I do not know all of the special circumstances that might cause someone to have to take off from behind their plane, to do so would cause me to assume I'm not going to do that.
The other hand, you are assuming that because they are taking off from behind their plane that they must be a poor pilot.

I gave you my answer, and showed you circumstances in other countries where it's common practice to take off from behind your plane, but yet those weren't the answers you're looking for so what am I to do...why is the sky blue lol

Casey
Old 04-05-2013, 11:25 AM
  #56  
mr_matt
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Ask The PIPE!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_39...tm.htm#3907779
Old 04-05-2013, 11:40 AM
  #57  
on_your_six
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

If you are flying by yourself do what ever you think is safest. If you are flying with others, you should control your plane from the flight boxes on the side of the runway. I have seen guys use the furthest down wind box to get the best takeoff runup.

I think that you should learn to be comfortable flying from the runway apron. That is where most RC flying is conducted. If you cannot fly from there, you certainly should not stand on the active runway while others are flying. I would think that this is more of a self-taught method of flying and should be avoided in order to fly with others. All it takes is some practice. It is important that other pilots know your location on the ground and don't have to abort a landing to avoid you. If you are moving about, this is very distracting.
Old 04-05-2013, 11:46 AM
  #58  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: glazier808

Just to be clear...
the reason why I cannot give you a definitive answer to your question is because I do not know all of the special circumstances that might cause someone to have to take off from behind their plane, to do so would cause me to assume I'm not going to do that.
REALLY? Because you just posted this, "I have done so in the past, probably will do so again in the future. I don't have too, but sometimes it is convenient." (POST # 37 on THIS thread! (in case you forgot already!))

In MY post (#41), I asked you to explain how it is more convenient for you to take off in such a manner. Since it was your quote, stating that it is more convenient, and that you have and will do so in the future, I didn't have to ASSUME anything!

Now, would you please, kindly answer the question? Under what circumstances is it more convenient to go out of your way to take off from behind the plane, rather than just taking off from the pilot station?

Regards,

Astro
Old 04-05-2013, 12:17 PM
  #59  
flycatch
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

From the looks of it this has turned into an issue of debate. Reminds me of the debate of mode 1 versus mode 2 transmitters. The Europeans at one time flew with transmitter trays because of the size of there transmitters. We on the other hand used neck straps but the majority just griped their transmitters. In the end does it really matter if the end result is achieved.
I personally only takeoff behind the airplane if it is a taildragger on its' maiden flight. This gives me the opportunity to see how adverse yaw effect the airframe and what control I must input to correct this turning tendency. After that is accomplished I fly it from the sidelines. I'm not alone in this practise.
Old 04-05-2013, 12:23 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

I guess you missed the part about the walnut trees, or the stated special circumstances discussed earlier. i.e. a maiden flight where you wanted to see, as well as feel inputs.

Or say you're in Germany, or the Netherlands at warbird event, where it seems, its an acceptable practice for whatever reason.
I have already stated that this is not my common practice, although I have done it on special circumstances, which I also explained earlier. So what's your hang up? Haven't I used proper enough English for you?


To quote you, "The act of having to stand behind the plane to take it off is not, in and of itself, unsafe.",

So, what's your deal, you've already said it isn't unsafe. The simple act of doing so, does not mean one doesn't have the ability to fly the plane.

On second thought, never mind... don't worry about answering the question you've taken up way too much of my time already...
Old 04-05-2013, 12:42 PM
  #61  
Rodney
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

What flyinwalenda said; his comments are right on and he has accessed the action very well. Common sense will outweigh prejudice any day. As long as that is in play, no problem with standing behind the model on takeoff.
Old 04-05-2013, 01:09 PM
  #62  
joebahl
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

I used to take off while standing on my head but i have gotten older now and it seamed i was scaring the other pilots to much so i stopped .lmao I am a old hat and have seen other old hats who have forgotton how they use to stand behind there planes on the runway to feel safer about taking off and now bi&ch about it. If it were up to some of them there would be no more newbes flying at our club field because they have to wait a couple minutes to fly(crash) their new planes. If someone wants or needs to stand behind their plane to take off its no big deal to me and should not be to others. BTW They also bi$ch about heli's, foam planes , Taxes , to much sunshine ,to little sunshine and the list goes on. joe
Old 04-05-2013, 01:09 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: glazier808


So, what's your deal, you've already said it isn't unsafe. The simple act of doing so, does not mean one doesn't have the ability to fly the plane.

Never mind. You are a tool. I think I proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it DOES prove insufficient flying skills to have to take off from behind the plane. You, on the other hand could not and would not come up with a legitimate reason for wanting to stand behind the plane!

Just because you put words down in a forum does not mean that they make sense, or are legitimate reasons for taking off from behind your plane!!

You said something about walnut trees, but I honestly can't see that being a reason to have to take off from behind your plane? You can extrapolate on that thought if you wish but don't feel obligated....

You also said, "i.e a maiden flight where you wanted to see, as well as feel inputs"????? WHAT does that even MEAN? LOL!!! You mean if I stand behind my plane, I can ACTUALLY FEEL IT? WTH???? You mean to say you can't see your plane from the flight stations??? AGAIN, WTH???

It is YOUR comments that confirmed my suspicions that it IS a lack of skill thing (not to mention many years of watching idiots do it at my field and KNOWING that the ONLY ones that do that, are INCOMPETENT pilots!)

I am still open to any LEGITIMATE reasons for standing behind your plane during take off (other than the OBVIOUS that it is EASIER).

Regards,

Astro
Old 04-05-2013, 02:09 PM
  #64  
flycatch
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Who but the thorn up your A**. I explained why I stand behind my taildraggers on maiden flights and so have many others.
Old 04-05-2013, 02:09 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: astrohog


ORIGINAL: glazier808


So, what's your deal, you've already said it isn't unsafe. The simple act of doing so, does not mean one doesn't have the ability to fly the plane.

Never mind. You are a tool. I think I proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it DOES prove insufficient flying skills to have to take off from behind the plane. You, on the other hand could not and would not come up with a legitimate reason for wanting to stand behind the plane!

Just because you put words down in a forum does not mean that they make sense, or are legitimate reasons for taking off from behind your plane!!

You said something about walnut trees, but I honestly can't see that being a reason to have to take off from behind your plane? You can extrapolate on that thought if you wish but don't feel obligated....

You also said, "i.e a maiden flight where you wanted to see, as well as feel inputs"????? WHAT does that even MEAN? LOL!!! You mean if I stand behind my plane, I can ACTUALLY FEEL IT? WTH???? You mean to say you can't see your plane from the flight stations??? AGAIN, WTH???

It is YOUR comments that confirmed my suspicions that it IS a lack of skill thing (not to mention many years of watching idiots do it at my field and KNOWING that the ONLY ones that do that, are INCOMPETENT pilots!)

I am still open to any LEGITIMATE reasons for standing behind your plane during take off (other than the OBVIOUS that it is EASIER).

Regards,

Astro

WellAstroI have SEEN your TYPE at many club FIELDS before. YOU have a SERIOUS attitude PROBLEM as can be SEEN by all of YOUR caps in your WORDS.
I would BET that you are in A click with guys that YOU are the kingpin OF that group and everyone HAS to do things YOUR way or its the WRONG way.
Rather than PACK up your STUFF and leave if someone is DOING this perhaps you should ASK him/her why they DO that and maybe OFFER to help them.
I do think that this is a learned habit that can be broken if helped to do so.
One should obey the rules of the given field they are flying at. Some fields, this taking off prcatice would be hard to do so it is best to unlearn this practice. Maidens are possibly another story.
Also Astro if I go toYOUR field I HOPE you DO pack up your CRAP and leave.
I take off at designated flying stations and also land on the runway.
Old 04-05-2013, 02:41 PM
  #66  
astrohog
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

I usually leave when the FOGS show up anyway, as they are dangerous and generally don't know how to have a good time anyway!

Cheers!

Astro

PS. Learn how to read and comprehend English. I could care less how people act at the field, and I will ultimately leave rather than confront the person who is being an idiot because it has been MY experience they are the ones that can't learn and adapt to new and better ways to do things, nor are they generally competent pilots. Competent pilots become competent pilots by learning how to STFU and listen to those who ARE competent, NOT the ones that feel the need to stand behind their airplanes in order to "feel" what it is going to do on takeoff! LOL
Old 04-05-2013, 02:53 PM
  #67  
astrohog
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: flycatch

Who but the thorn up your A**. I explained why I stand behind my taildraggers on maiden flights and so have many others.
No thorn in my A, just wish those that were too incompetent to takeoff from the pilot stations would fess up and admit that is why they had to stand behind their planes to takeoff.

BTW, I don't think there is anything wrong with being incompetent. We were all incompetent at this thing at some point, what bothers me is when someone THINKS they are competent just because they have been hanging out at the field for decades or longer! THAT is a dangerous attitude to have, and that is when the learning stops. It is a shame, because there is always room for all of us to get better.

If you read my posts carefully, you will see that I did not hate on anybody, I merely stated that those that had to take off from the rear, were incompetent to fly from the pilot stations. Why does that mean I have a stick up my A**

Incompetency is not a bad word, nor a judgement on someone, rather an indicator of the persons skill level, which does NOT make them "good" or "bad", just less skilled. Unfortunately, what we have here, is a bunch of sensitive ego-maniacs that don't have the ability to judge their skill level with any kind of accuracy.

Astro
Old 04-05-2013, 02:59 PM
  #68  
dirtybird
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

I never stand behind my A/C when I take off. I sit.
Old 04-05-2013, 03:13 PM
  #69  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

This is getting very interesting !!! If they stand behind their plane when taking off. Do they stand in front of it when landing ????
Old 04-05-2013, 03:16 PM
  #70  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

Isn't it wonderful to be one of those people who are the best thing that ever happened to RC flying...to have perfect depth perception, visual accuity and lightning fast reflexs and have never experienced any type of spatial dis-orientation. It's a wonder that anyone else would be allowed to fly in your world. Or if they were they would face a barrage of snippy criticizm for their every failing to measure up to being one of the "RC Masters of the Universe"!

Our field is paved. It is plenty long, but the County Parks and Rec, who own the field, figured 30' was plenty of width and didnt feel the need to improve or smooth the transition from pavement to turf/dirt except for a few taxiways when they reworked the whole thing. Needless to say, that leaves little room to correct for tracking on a new or unfamiliar plane and running off the pavement nearly always leads to repairs.

That being said, standard practice at our feild is to predominently stand behind for maidens and other special circumstance. Far too many times in the past folks have tried to yank their plane into the air before it was ready to avoid running "off-road" on maidens or when transitioning to a new A/C. Saftey and experience has shown quicker reactions and an overall safer environment using this "crutch". Most of our oldest and best pilots avail themselves of it as well...and before the disparaging remarks start coming: several of them are nationally sponsored flyers and competitors.

Day to day flights and normal op's dictate T/O and land from the stations,but no-one is denegrated for availing themselves of the opportuniy to "stand behind".

I have been known, on occasion, to stand behind though I preffer the position behind the fence....something about that crazy J3 Cub; It just seems to want to go everywhere![X(] And yes, there are days when my competence or comfort level is not up to the task of a clean T/O from the fence. Landing never has been an issue. It's pretty easy to line up over certian land marks and other visual aids to put it right down the center with great consistency.
Old 04-05-2013, 03:16 PM
  #71  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: thepamster


ORIGINAL: astrohog


ORIGINAL: glazier808


So, what's your deal, you've already said it isn't unsafe. The simple act of doing so, does not mean one doesn't have the ability to fly the plane.

Never mind. You are a tool. I think I proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it DOES prove insufficient flying skills to have to take off from behind the plane. You, on the other hand could not and would not come up with a legitimate reason for wanting to stand behind the plane!

Just because you put words down in a forum does not mean that they make sense, or are legitimate reasons for taking off from behind your plane!!

You said something about walnut trees, but I honestly can't see that being a reason to have to take off from behind your plane? You can extrapolate on that thought if you wish but don't feel obligated....

You also said, "i.e a maiden flight where you wanted to see, as well as feel inputs"????? WHAT does that even MEAN? LOL!!! You mean if I stand behind my plane, I can ACTUALLY FEEL IT? WTH???? You mean to say you can't see your plane from the flight stations??? AGAIN, WTH???

It is YOUR comments that confirmed my suspicions that it IS a lack of skill thing (not to mention many years of watching idiots do it at my field and KNOWING that the ONLY ones that do that, are INCOMPETENT pilots!)

I am still open to any LEGITIMATE reasons for standing behind your plane during take off (other than the OBVIOUS that it is EASIER).

Regards,

Astro

WellAstroI have SEEN your TYPE at many club FIELDS before. YOU have a SERIOUS attitude PROBLEM as can be SEEN by all of YOUR caps in your WORDS.
I would BET that you are in A click with guys that YOU are the kingpin OF that group and everyone HAS to do things YOUR way or its the WRONG way.
Rather than PACK up your STUFF and leave if someone is DOING this perhaps you should ASK him/her why they DO that and maybe OFFER to help them.
I do think that this is a learned habit that can be broken if helped to do so.
One should obey the rules of the given field they are flying at. Some fields, this taking off prcatice would be hard to do so it is best to unlearn this practice. Maidens are possibly another story.
Also Astro if I go toYOUR field I HOPE you DO pack up your CRAP and leave.
I take off at designated flying stations and also land on the runway.
I find it humorous that Mr. Hog has stayed on here all day to argue his point of view. Argue the minutiae I say !
Yes where I fly there are a few just like this and they make up the resident clique as well. They would rather spend all day bit*hing, complaining and arguing and won't stop until the majority agrees with them or everyone else goes home!


Old 04-05-2013, 03:39 PM
  #72  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

WHO cares where you stand when taking off??????? This is a hobby for fun for all. And for all you pilots that think you way is better and you are better pilots just ask the expert who landed and turned off there transmitter while plane was still on and didnt rebind after setting up his plane then it just took off by itself the DA150 ended up in my 2 week old toyhauler he was a expert. Well after all said and done his insurance company wrote me a check for the damage to my new toyhauler I hadnt even peeeeeeed in it yet $21,000.00 he was a expert pilot. So I dont care where you stand to take off if that helps you and you feel more at ease and are safe in doing so then WHO CARES. In all my 30+ years of flying I seen more screw ups and close calls by the so called expert flyer after all they know everything and are perfect also. Oh yes sometimes I do stand behind my plane when taking off sometimes I dont.
Old 04-05-2013, 03:46 PM
  #73  
kwblake
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Default RE: Standing position for take off

I would like to throw in my 2 sense, or cents. This reply, is to no one person. WOW This is just WAY too funny. Or sad............ OK.......just sad.
Old 04-05-2013, 04:27 PM
  #74  
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: outdoorhunting

This is getting very interesting !!! If they stand behind their plane when taking off. Do they stand in front of it when landing ????
They may not go out and stand in the runway, but I can tell you that many students will land the plane right into themselves if you don't stay on them and teach them how to line up with the runway.

Old 04-05-2013, 04:45 PM
  #75  
joebahl
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Default RE: Standing position for take off


ORIGINAL: hugger-4641


ORIGINAL: outdoorhunting

This is getting very interesting !!! If they stand behind their plane when taking off. Do they stand in front of it when landing ????
They may not go out and stand in the runway, but I can tell you that many students will land the plane right into themselves if you don't stay on them and teach them how to line up with the runway.[img][/img]

+ 1 on that hugger ! i have been a instructer in 2 different clubs for to many years and after i let a new flyer stand behind his plane to take off i slowly get him back to the flying station to fly and land. If you do this every time after they learn how to fly and they do walk out to take off i watch them slowly walk back to a station by theirselfs . I also teach them to yell out on the field and clear when they are back to a station. Yes iam a old hat but one of the oldest in my clubs and others kinda leave me alone.lol joe

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