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Old 12-27-2013, 10:14 PM
  #26  
PLANE JIM
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Frank-would you cut the grass a little shorter? My Hobby King 3d Millenium Foamy will not take off out of the pits very well so I can display my superb pilot skills as I hover over the runway centerline.


Just trolling-but I like all aspects of the Hobby- I build kits, I buy ARF'S and I fly everything I can get my hands on at least once!!!! But the most enjoyment I find in this Hobby is the good times that I have had over the years at the flying field visiting and sharing with like minded people like myself.
Old 12-27-2013, 11:07 PM
  #27  
Bolshoi
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Originally Posted by countilaw View Post
"Grumpy old men are the problem" ???? If it weren't for the Grumpy old men, most of you younger guys would be trying to fly in parks and parking lots. It's those Grumpy old men that built the flying fields that you enjoy today. It's the Grumpy old men that still get out and cut the grass, edge the run way and do the general maintenance of the field. Grumpy old men have paid their dues so the young "Ain't got time to build" guys can have a field to fly from.

Things are more expensive than they were 30 or 40 years ago. REALLY? When I started flying model airplanes I was 8, I bought all my modelling stuff from money I saved from doing odd jobs like cutting grass. I raised two children and went to college and still had time to build my planes and planes for my kids.

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses. Today approximately 40 % of the population is unemployed and living off government benefits. The millenium child has had everything given to him. The millenium child grew up with video games and instant gradification. Having to build a model airplane is not instant gradification, thus the "I DON'T HAVE TIME TO BUILD excuse.

I am not against the guy that doesn't want to build a plane, I just dislike the guy that takes advantage of the loyal club member, that blames everything on the Grumpy old man.


And and it's the Grumpy old men who are turning people away from he hobby gray they built etc, etc, etc. That's just brilliant, the only point in creating something of value is to pass it on to future generations , that's called a legacy, which all if the guys before your generation left for you. We've all made sacrifices in our lives, so knock of the preaching nonsense. No one I know is living off of the government, I hope with all your ranting that your not on Medicare, not collecting social security- all government provided- cheers
Old 12-28-2013, 12:02 AM
  #28  
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''The grumpy old men are the ones that do the maintenance'' You probably have a pretty good point there, in that all of us younger guys wouldn't have the good facilities that we do if it weren't for the previous generation.
But seriously, can a young kid who thinks they have some interest in the hobby be expected to go through the fairly involved process of building a model from a kit before they loose interest? That takes a fair amount of time, skill, and dedication! They will loose interest long before completing the project, and the stakes are much higher when they crash, which they inevitably will. I'm not bashing kit building. Not at all. In fact, I have built some. I think there are very few things that come close to the joy of flying a model you built with your own hands. However, I will always fly ARF's and foamies simply because they are cheap, easy, and don't take a whole ton of time. They have saved this hobby, not ruined it. Thanks to ARF's, it is now possible for a kid to get into the hobby, have a good time, and learn to fly without expending a lot of emotional or monetary effort. That is inarguably a good thing.
Old 12-28-2013, 04:30 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Malcolm King View Post
.
But seriously, can a young kid who thinks they have some interest in the hobby be expected to go through the fairly involved process of building a model from a kit before they loose interest? That takes a fair amount of time, skill, and dedication! They will loose interest long before completing the project, .
Yes, I think it's a reasonable expectation.

I don't see why, if there is a genuine interest, that a young person could not build his own model. Most modern designs are fairley easy to build. It's not a long, conveluted process, as it was years ago. Modern jig lock construction and Super Glue have revolutionized our hobby. It takes a fraction of the time to build a model today, as it did years ago.

The key is the genuine interest. The onset of ARFs, plug and plays, etc, has brought in multitudes of new people. Because it's so easy, many are just playing. They have no real interest, just money. When they gety bored, they find something else to spend money on.

Our "Grump Old Men" spend a lot of their person time, training these newcomers. When the new guys get bored, they're gone, and the "GOM" have wasted their time.

It's no wonder that they are grumpy.
Old 12-28-2013, 05:01 AM
  #30  
OldRookie
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Originally Posted by Bolshoi View Post
I hope with all your ranting that your not on Medicare, not collecting social security- all government provided- cheers
Off Topic but....Since when is Social Security government provided? This government program isn't a handout.
Most Americans are compelled to pay into the Social Security program their entire working career, in hopes of having funds available at retirement age to help cover living expenses.

Greg

Last edited by OldRookie; 12-28-2013 at 05:27 AM.
Old 12-28-2013, 05:10 AM
  #31  
flyinwalenda
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Completely off topic but to answer the question. Anyone 65+ GAVE(forced or otherwise) their share of money to the government for their SSI. The government took it and spent it elsewhere. Now the government is handing out my money that I paid in over the years to give to the 65+ folks (can I say GOM in clubs ? )because their money is long gone. It's now a government run handout.
Heard a story last week of a guy who is 68 and went in get his SSI benefits started. He was the oldest person in the waiting room! All the others were in their 20's,30's,40's.

Last edited by flyinwalenda; 12-28-2013 at 05:13 AM.
Old 12-28-2013, 05:52 AM
  #32  
LDM
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This is what I find funny about the hobby , the best way to enjoy is have in your mission club statement "non judgement zone" its really that simple . If you cant then you need to select a group of friends that fly rc in that manner.
I left RCU because I got tired of these battles that sound like this and I assume some clubs are the same way.
Battles like "scratch building is better then kit building , kit building is better then ARF, arf in wood are better then arfs in foam , all drama nonsense . Then there were debates on "how can you not have time to build shame on you " lol .
I mean instead of enjoying the hobby as a unified front we have drama no matter what the age , people find something to judge.
I was flying with a group of guys at a local high school and pretty advanced pattern pilot showed up , great pilot , great plane . He walks by me , does not know me at all , sees my new Futaba Radio valued at $249 and says , " lol I give you $75 and keeps walking" now mind you this guy had an all up weight of about 100lbs and if I sneezed I would broken one of his bones but this is what I am talking about .
If we would simply accept rc for what it is "an enjoyable past time among people with similar interest" .Sure you can have segments like warbirds, pattern, giant scale, WW1 what ever , all good and all allow special interest to enjoy there special interest within a group.
But what makes it so difficult is when one segment decides to simply and continually judge another.
Now if you think I am sensitive , in my professional career I am a VP in sales and at my level you spend 75% of your career getting degraded by customers and its simply rolls off, that is how you succeed in sales and in my personal life I am a director of a 2000 member travel ice hockey program . Trust me no one is more difficult then a hockey mom and her NHL bound son lol , but you learn how to talk to people and you show them respect and you would be surprised the respect you get in return .
Old 12-28-2013, 05:54 AM
  #33  
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I recently rejoined a club after 10 years of raising a family and not having the time to get back into flying. The club ain't what it used to be (no more hotdog pilots), but I'm lucky enough to be flying with my son and a great bunch of guys. Years ago we were all builders and active contributors. These days nobody seems to have enough spare time. I've had to change my attitude to match the majority of the active club members and found that just rolling with it and looking at the positive makes me enjoy my flying time much more. All clubs have nay sayers and trouble makers, I just focus on the fun and try to share it with others who care to listen.
Old 12-28-2013, 07:44 AM
  #34  
cublover
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Soooo very true!!! Or the new guys, I call them FNG's show up and blast how you need to change this and that! See that road over there, get in your truck with your pretty plane, and drive to the end of it!!!

Originally Posted by countilaw View Post
The invention of the ARF is what has killed the hobby. Why, you may ask. Let's look back 30 or even 40 years ago. Most all that were in the club and the hobby were builders. They worked hard at building their planes. They were true airplane hobbyist. Today, the people you see at the field are flying foamy RTF. They are NOT hobbyist, but guys that just want to fly a model plane. They don't want to take the time to build a plane, experiment with different designs or try something new. (unless it comes in a box with little or no assembly time).

These guys don't care about the club, or the field. They don't attend club meetings, because they don't care about whether the field get a new lease the next year, or not. The don't help cut the grass at the field, but they will complain if they can't fly because someone else didn't cut the grass. The don't help with any maintenance at the field either.

WHY? The just want a place to fly their toy foamy. They don't care about the other members or the rules.

If they show up at the field and there is an event going on, they complain because they can't fly. They don't say, "Hey, is there anything I can do to help?"

If they show up while you are cutting the grass, they will either sit in their car and wait until you are done, or leave and come back later.
(I have actually seen this happen more times than I care to admit.)

They just pay their dues each year so they can have use of the field. So out of 50 members, you will have 10 that actually do anything to perpetuate the club.

Frank
Old 12-28-2013, 08:19 AM
  #35  
LDM
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So this last post proves my point 100% .
All guys that fly foamys don't care about the club or its members and they don't ever ask to help lol (and you wonder ) ???
True hobbies are only those that build planes because the pilot of an ARF would ....what never understand aerodynamics lol ?
They dont want to take the time to build a plane ...lol, wow , I bet these same people that don't want to take the time to build are responsible for the unemployment rate and gas prices because we can make that same assumption considering we are ass...uming everything else lol .
Really , I have built to many kits to mention but today enjoy bashing an ARF but I am not getting into the same argument to justify my existence in rc . I am just amazed at the assumptions made, good thing the subject matter is rc planes , I would hate to see the assumption on more serious subjects if such misguided assumptions are made on a hobby .
Old 12-28-2013, 08:41 AM
  #36  
scale only 4 me
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LDM,
I'm with you, I've built too many to remember, I'm tired of always having to try and impress the rc elitists snobs, why bother, they're jerks?

Once in a while a Foamie or ARF is just fun to play with.
Old 12-28-2013, 09:54 AM
  #37  
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What's with all this dividing model flyers into different groups and blaming the other groups for everyone else's problems? Can't we all just get along and enjoy flying model airplanes? ''Foamie fllyers are responsible for the unemployment rates and gas prices?'' Really? I'm tired of people trying to say that they are the ''true hobbyists'' because they build kits and the ARF flyers aren't. This dividing and judging is really counter-productive.
Old 12-28-2013, 10:13 AM
  #38  
cublover
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Default Dont bash ARF's to bad,,,Some are real nice!!!..hahaha

Well,,,don't get me wrong,,i love a good ARF,,,,but I am both, a builder, and an ARF'r. Guess I love it all...building a nice ARF beaver now..its to funny,,,,you can spot an arf 10 miles away though.!!!.. But love a good arf once in awhile....I just think our hobby is being riddled with know it all's or people think they should be prez!! just relax,,,find some good friends and go fly, BBQ, and have a cocktail!!!...I have been an outlaw for many years, and stay that way, and I have always had pretty good luck with people,,,but I have seen a couple real winners!!...
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:14 AM
  #39  
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Anytime that you think your way is better than someone else's, YOU become part of the problem not the cure.

Frankly, I got into this hobby to fly...I know that is a novel idea for some. I don't give a rats behind how you do it or what you do it with, as long you are doing the part of this hobby that you love to, why should I care how you do it?

And lastly, if you think only the grumpy old guys do all the work in the club, you are the cause of the exact same thing you are complaining about and are alienating some of your best members. Some of the grumpy old men I know think they are now exempt because of their time in the hobby. What a bunch of grumpy old men.

GEESH!!!!!!

Last edited by hookedonrc; 12-28-2013 at 10:21 AM.
Old 12-28-2013, 12:42 PM
  #40  
LDM
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all great post 36, 37 , 38 , 39 , why judge anything go fly and welcome everyone and watch the hobby grow.
I guess a guy flying a giant scale ARF P40 from Top Flight is not a Hobbiest ? I hope he is because that is some heavy medal to simply be a guy with a toy , same with the new Hanger 9 Giant Size Corsair , I guess all those guys dont take care of the club, there not hobbiest and they just want to fly there toys hahahah. Seems like the guys in that Giant Scale Corsair thread range from Hobby Shop owners too some serious scale builders.
As far as those that go to a field and club and don't help judge them and not the planes that they fly .
In addition club maintenance , club meetings etc is not about its membership its about its leaderships ability to manage.
You dont get people to cut the grass or attend meetings by complaining about them, you get them to participate by managing them.
Its really simple, for club maintenance you make a schedule if they are members that choose not to help maintain the club or simply avoid doing so you charge them more for the club. Its perfectly legal and a great way of non confrontational participation.
So as a simple example if a regular member ship (example only is ) $100 and it includes you name on a schedule every 6 weeks in a rotation to cut the grass you have the option of opting out , but your member ship is now $200.
The difference in the fee goes to the A+ members for supplies etc , the B members don't get the benefits of the supplies and pay more.
If I complained about everyone at work that did not do there jobs vs managing them to do there jobs I would be doing all the work everyday of the week.
Old 12-28-2013, 01:56 PM
  #41  
jester_s1
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I disagree with you Frank about ARF's being the problem. The truth is without ARF's, 60-70% of the RC pilots who pay dues at the clubs wouldn't be doing the hobby at all. The older generation loved to work with their hands and had the skills, but not nearly as many X'ers and millennials do. So without ARF's, a lot of our clubs simply wouldn't be here. Watching generational trends, the under 40 crowd simply does not feel responsible to volunteer for anything. They don't leave time in their schedules to contribute anywhere, and they don't see why they should. The traditional men's service clubs are all hurting for members because younger people aren't intersted. Churches scramble all the time to find kids workers and teachers and people to mow grass and clean. PTA's in many schools can't even fill their officer boards because no one is willing to take an evening to attend meetings a couple times a month. If clubs are going to survive in the next 30 years or so, there will probably be a significant shift in how they get things done. Most will probably have to raise dues and hire groundkeepers, and many will simply fade away if they aren't a part of a city park system. It's entirely possible that park flyers truly are the future of our hobby, much to my chagrin.
Old 12-28-2013, 03:48 PM
  #42  
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to the OP,

some people's hobby is model airplanes, Others are controlling that ordination that over sees the other.

when those two are in conflict.. you have a club that is similar to the one you describe.

you have to change it OR wait till those in control move on.

you choice: change it OR if to deeply corrupt... find or make a new club.
Old 12-28-2013, 04:46 PM
  #43  
Live Wire
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Very interesting responses, Now if we could get the people involve that need to read this to read it we would have a winner, Yes some think it is time for the old timer to leave, Well this is one that has . No more AMA no more mowing or maintenance of equipement, let the club pay for it.
What I get POed about is when you take on a job, make all tjhe plans and some one comes in an takes over. Is it that they think they are the only people that can handle the job. I have been in this hobby over 70years and have seen a lot of changes in models and the people involved. Just for what is going on in this hobby and living in the fast lane! A boy got a Heli for Christmas got it in the air and has never seen it since. I call that the fast lane to bad some old guy was not around to help.
Old 12-28-2013, 05:14 PM
  #44  
LDM
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Well I for one would never say "its the old guys fault" . Again everyone has something to contribute and with age comes absolute wisdom.
What I wish for this hobby is that everyone involved could grasp that change is evident with technology. Technology will bring some aspects that were done a certain (perhaps the hard way ) and make them very easy. I allow myself to really enjoy the hobby and that allows me to enjoy so much more then someone that simply cant grasp change or sets up an expectation and that expectation is the only thing that can be correct.
When e-power started to emerge I swore I would never fly an electric plane then one day I opened my eyes and was amazed at how far the technology how come. I took a simple plastic seltzer bottle, made the bottom look like a radial engine, added free meat trays from Costco and some servos etc and built from total trash a double winger WW1 park flyer . Now remember this is from a guy who has built Gulliows, Comet , Pica , Top Flight etc , but if you let your imagination go you can find rc and scale in so many things.
My point is its not about the Old guys , young guys or middle aged guys , its about your willingness to accept the change in the hobby and welcome those that enjoy it.
AT 53 I am becoming the old guy but I can tell you I am totally amazed at every part of of hobby from micro to the new Giant ARFs and the new 65" EPO warbirds etc , totally new technology.
I told my 22 year old son that these little rc copters with amazing details, rc ready to fly etc , I said when I was a kid that copter if it was even available would have been a $300 model not a $39 item sold at Marshals .
This is also the fast-lane but so is the smart phone, i-pad, Skype, not all change is good but change is always eminent.
Old 12-28-2013, 05:40 PM
  #45  
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I have been modeling sense l was a boy building control line and flying and building rc aircraft sense I was 16. I am now 49 and have taught many to fly. I don't consider myself the old guy but I do see where Frank is coming from. I fly arfs and still build a model here and there. I have seen the foamy flyer that gets mad because the feild is closed for a war bird meet. I also consider the arf giant corsair flyer a hobbyists because it takes time to finish those out too. I like to fly second hand models too. I guess it just takes all kinds to make a club. Dont know what I would have done without the old timer that took me under his wing.
Old 12-28-2013, 06:33 PM
  #46  
Tampaflyer
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what really "turns off" people is the OLD GUARD PEANUT GALERY.. the YOU have to have AMA.. are you a club member? You can't FLy that here (although AMA allows a newcomer to fly as a guest under a AMA member).. And the Crowd of "that cant be done, that'll never work" crowd at a meeting.
So they KILL the spirit of those trying to move a club forward. or attract the newer flyers.

the best part !! they are the Same Complainers of " why is our club failing to bring new members ?" I want to say at times "IT'S YOU>> STOP Complaining and do something and stop telling me nothing will work.
Old 12-28-2013, 06:38 PM
  #47  
Tampaflyer
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OH I would like to add , this is not a knock on any "old timer".. there are plenty or people that fall in to this at any age.
I find the best AMA members simple go around these members and help newcomers directly.

What those control freaks don't know.. we have those people we help show up later. after the Grumps leave...

Ever notice the heli guys usually show up after the plane guys leave ?
Old 12-28-2013, 08:53 PM
  #48  
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Tampaflyer- Well sure, if a guy shows up and thinks he's supposed to be able to use a club field without ever paying he's going to be turned off by it. And the clubs don't need him around either. They make park flyers for guys like that. It can be a big pill for a newbie to swallow, but someone has to pay for the space to fly in, especially if it's been improved at all. Guys show up at clubs all the time thinking they are entitled to use of the club property for free, but they are wrong about that. If they don't want to pay, maybe this isn't the right hobby for them.
Old 12-28-2013, 09:11 PM
  #49  
Pete Lane
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Originally Posted by Tampaflyer View Post
what really "turns off" people is the OLD GUARD PEANUT GALERY.. the YOU have to have AMA.. are you a club member? You can't FLy that here (although AMA allows a newcomer to fly as a guest under a AMA member).. And the Crowd of "that cant be done, that'll never work" crowd at a meeting.
So they KILL the spirit of those trying to move a club forward. or attract the newer flyers.

the best part !! they are the Same Complainers of " why is our club failing to bring new members ?" I want to say at times "IT'S YOU>> STOP Complaining and do something and stop telling me nothing will work.
And mind your own bees wax !.
Old 12-28-2013, 10:15 PM
  #50  
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Well darn , I guess that now I am 58 and the oldest at the field, I am the " old timer ". I still love to fly after 25 years. Still love the smell of nitro. Still love to hear that 2 stroke winding tighter and tighter. I am the only one that maintains the field. It is a dirt field, but it works. I spent 1500.00 to get it sprayed again this year. I built a roller that weighs 5,000 lbs. to pull behind my truck to keep it flat and smooth. I carry the trash drum off when it's full and bring it back. I get offered help every now and then but not often. I love to fly. I will help anyone if they ask with their plane. Or give them a prop if they break one. Have trainered many pilots and made them good pilots. I love to fly. I gave a 14 year old kid a Mach 1 trainer after he learned to fly it. Gave him everything but my transmitter. Gave my nephew another Mach 1 after he learned how to fly. Gave him everything but my transmitter. I love to fly. I have another Mach 1 trainer built and have 4-5 flights on it. If someone really wants to learn to fly, I will teach them, and probably give them this Mach 1 also. I love to fly. Normally takes me about 10 hours to get someone who will listen to get them to the point of their solo flight. After every solo, I take the prop off the plane, put on another, write their name and date on the prop I took off so they will have it to remind them of the day they were able to solo. I love to fly. I have given away planes that I have crashed that wasn't going to be that hard to fix, just to give someone the experience of what it takes to really fix a plane. A lot of times they get the idea to build a kit, which I offer to help if they want help. I love to fly. And a lot of times they do want the help. It's one thing to read how to do something, but it's a lot easier if someone shows you. I still build kits, I have Arf 's, I just recently bought a foamy. I love to fly. I have never used anything but 15% nitro on everything. I buy cheap standard fox glow plugs and use them on everything. While at the field, I normally fly twice as long as anyone else. Have the usual problems like everyone else, but not as often. I do a complete check on every plane I am going to fly the night before I go to the field. I go to the field to fly, not work on my planes. I love to fly. The new generation is just that, the new generation. More electronics and knowledge at the tip of fingers that we didn't have. We had to wait for a magazine or something in the mail to see new stuff. Taught us patience. Now everything is right here right now. Get mad if the internet is running slow. I love to fly. There is pride and satisfaction in building a plane from a box of sticks. Putting your colors on whatever they might be. Having a plane like no one else's. Building a kit is still expensive. Learning to cover a plane well is a challenge. Not everyone is good with their hands. I think more arf'ers would actually build a plane or 2 if someone would give them a little guidance here and there. The new generation is smart, but learned wisdom has to be passed down. Oh, by the way, I LOVE TO FLY !!

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