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old timers look here must be 50+ years only

Old 07-30-2022, 11:00 AM
  #10826  
GallopingGhostler
 
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Originally Posted by Telemaster Sales UK
The Farman was indeed a French WW1 bomber which was later used as a trainer. I suppose if you could fly a Farman you could fly anything! [...] The grandfather of one of my clubmates was killed at the controls of a Farman 11 in December 1915. He built a model replica which proved to be equally difficult to fly as the original!



Photo No. 45 from https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/20...arfare/507326/ , credits to Bibliotheque nationale de France, resized for viewing.

That photo looks like it was taken looking back in the Francois Farman. It's tail surfaces seem to be disproportionately undersized given the wing area. I imagine if both rudders were doubled in size and the elevator increased 50% would probably add immense stability. Of those that did fly, the pilots were probably very short lived. Use of incendiary bullets made quick work of the highly flammable doped muslin fabric covering. Parachutes weren't as refined as they were in WW2.

Perhaps that is why the plane was relegated to training duties, and even there until sufficient quantities of other more suitable aircraft were available.

I guess the model would be best suited for some time of gyroscopic flight stability system, like models of the tailless B2 Bomber.
Old 07-30-2022, 11:36 AM
  #10827  
donnyman
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Some of the best ww1 pictures I have ever seen!
Old 07-31-2022, 08:29 AM
  #10828  
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Originally Posted by GallopingGhostler
Of those that did fly, the pilots were probably very short lived. Use of incendiary bullets made quick work of the highly flammable doped muslin fabric covering. Parachutes weren't as refined as they were in WW2.

Perhaps that is why the plane was relegated to training duties, and even there until sufficient quantities of other more suitable aircraft were available.
As a soldier, you had a better survival rate as an infantryman. During some parts of the war a British pilot could expect to survive an average of six weeks from the time he arrived on the front. Along with the nitrate doped linen ( which is incredibly flammable), the entire fuel system including the tanks was pressurized which made it a leak looking for a place to happen. At one point the Germans had an issue with engine heat igniting the incendiary ammunition. A problem for the Allies was that most of the aerial combat took place over the front or over German held territory. Even if you survived going down you were landing in hostile territory.
It was also a time of amazing advances in technology. The early war airplanes were only a half step from their civilian ancestors and were pretty fragile. The ones that weren't totally worn out were sent to the rear for training purposes. Every few months a design would come out that leapfrogged over what ever was at the front. Nobody had enough airplanes and whatever survived was used for less hazardous missions and eventually relegated to training.
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Old 07-31-2022, 02:50 PM
  #10829  
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Just got back from Oshkosh. It was a rather disappointing week. I had told the kids, that the Warbird show would make you tingle when they flew over in formation and you got to hear a bunch of radials and Merlins sing. Turns out, there were NO B-17 bombers, No B-24's, Only Doc showed up on Monday and Tuesday, then left until Friday, and did not participate in the shows. A total of 3 B-25's flew a short show, did not fly formation, just strafing runs, a couple Mustangs flew some patterns, but everything else just flew formation circles around and around, and only one fly by of a Corsair. The kids did not get to experience the shows my wife and I both saw years ago, and they didn't get a chance to see the inside of a fully functional B-17 or any other Warbird. We did get the thrill of having our eardrums assaulted big time by the Airforce and Navy F-35 and the F-18's. My watch and phone recorded 113 db and we were no where NEAR the flight line.

I got to meet a couple of the pilots of some of the warbirds, an owner of an A26, and my Friend with the B-17 came out Thursday so we got to get together with a bunch of owners, so that was nice.

We did get to see a couple unusual planes, a jet powered glider, and a Radial AND jet Waco Bipe. On Wednesday a U2 did some fly by's including simulated landing and take off. It was OK, but nothing like what we saw years past where the ground shook from the roar of the engines in formation flights over the runway. The only B-17 and B-24 we saw were the two in Appleton giving rides and they were up high enough to not get a good view. We saw some Cats, Wildcat, Hellcat, Bearcat and Tigercat do some flying. The Red Bull team, they are Friggin NUTZ. I have never seen a helicopter do loops, rolls, and backflips before, but that crazyass pilot did it, right alongside their Extra 330!

Too many jets, not enough heavy metal, and you seen one aerobatic performance, you pretty much seen them all.

The night show though, Blew us all away!!! Aeroshell had their planes all lit up flying formation loops and rolls, then as it got dark, a couple had LED lights all over the planes that changed colors, and shot fireworks out the wings and tail. The last one flew into the beginning of the fireworks and became part of the display, and flew all around the bursts. Then they BLEW the place up, you could feel the heat rolling off the explosions. Best fireworks show I have ever seen and made the entire trip worth it.
Old 07-31-2022, 10:12 PM
  #10830  
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Originally Posted by mgnostic
As a soldier, you had a better survival rate as an infantryman. During some parts of the war a British pilot could expect to survive an average of six weeks from the time he arrived on the front. Along with the nitrate doped linen ( which is incredibly flammable), the entire fuel system including the tanks was pressurized which made it a leak looking for a place to happen. At one point the Germans had an issue with engine heat igniting the incendiary ammunition. A problem for the Allies was that most of the aerial combat took place over the front or over German held territory. Even if you survived going down you were landing in hostile territory.
My college fluid dynamics professor some 40 years ago told us of his military experiences. Being a young Korean man (Japan captured Korea), he was draft during WW2 into the Japanese Army. He took their battery of tests. Then they offered him to be a radioman, bombardier, or aircraft mechanic. He thought to himself, "Radioman and bombardier fly out, they don't fly back." He opted to be an aircraft mechanic. That worked because he was still alive, some 38 years later.

Originally Posted by mgnostic
It was also a time of amazing advances in technology. The early war airplanes were only a half step from their civilian ancestors and were pretty fragile. The ones that weren't totally worn out were sent to the rear for training purposes. Every few months a design would come out that leapfrogged over what ever was at the front. Nobody had enough airplanes and whatever survived was used for less hazardous missions and eventually relegated to training.
I did a little reading on the development of U.S. Naval fighter WW2 development. The Japanese expected the newer Hellcats to fly similar to the older Wildcats, the diving maneuver to gain speed then use the momentum on the upswing to shoot down Japanese aircraft. The F6F didn't need to do that, it could actively attack from the horizontal to vertical directly, having a much more powerful engine. It was a turkey shoot from that point on.
Old 07-31-2022, 11:55 PM
  #10831  
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The Royal Flying Corps lost 40% of its aircraft in one month, April 1917. On the ground however, the Battle of Arras which occurred at the same time was a spectacular success. The aircraft which the British were using at the time were markedly inferior to the German Albatros and it wasn't until the introduction of the SE5 and the Sopwith Camel that the tables were turned.

In September 1918, the Royal Air Force, as the RFC had become by then, also lost considerable numbers of aeroplanes to the Fokker DVII but the difference was that by September 1918 the trench deadlock had been broken, the allied armies were advancing and fighting in the open was taking place. British fighters roamed the German rear areas and though they were frequently shot down, their colleagues in the artillery co-operation squadrons flew relatively unmolested over the land battle. The last nineteen aircraft shot down by Erich Lowenhadt in 1918 were all fighters, and of the last twenty aircraft destroyed by Ernst Udet only three were two seaters and one of those was a Bristol Fighter.
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Old 08-01-2022, 07:19 AM
  #10832  
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England lost a good number of their nobility and intelligent scientifically minded men during both world wars, because they decided to become pilots and flight officers. It is odd how the infantryman, as mgnostic alluded to, would have the upper hand on life longevity. Although Capt. Brown received the honors for downing Richtofen and his Fokker Dr-1 Triplane with his Sopwith Camel, it was most likely the Australians on the ground who actually ended his life.

With the development of robotics and remote computerized electronics, missile intelligence, I foresee the need for fighter aircraft to be less and less. The man in a cockpit will be more limited in the wars to follow.
Old 08-01-2022, 08:58 AM
  #10833  
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I read somewhere that if you were an officer in the British Army in the Great War you stood a one in eight chance of being killed, (12%). If you were in the RFC/RAF the chances increased to one in four or 25%. For Other Ranks, all arms, the figure was one in twelve or 8%..
Old 08-01-2022, 09:53 AM
  #10834  
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Shortly after conscription was abolished, I took the route worthy of a Monty Python episode. I enlisted as a 02J Clarinet Player in a military band.
Old 08-01-2022, 09:39 PM
  #10835  
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Originally Posted by mgnostic

... It was also a time of amazing advances in technology. The early war airplanes were only a half step from their civilian ancestors and were pretty fragile. The ones that weren't totally worn out were sent to the rear for training purposes. Every few months a design would come out that leapfrogged over what ever was at the front. Nobody had enough airplanes and whatever survived was used for less hazardous missions and eventually relegated to training.
The most powerful engine fitted to a British aircraft in August 1914 produced 70 hp. The most powerful engine fitted to a British aircraft in 1918 produced 400 hp. The 1914 engine was a French Renault, the 1918 engine was the so-called "Liberty Engine," an American design.
Old 08-01-2022, 11:01 PM
  #10836  
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Four of us drove down to Gueret to participate in their "Interclubs" or fly-in.

There was an old boy called Alain there who had built a magnificent Stampe SV4 from a British kit. https://www.slecuk.com/stampe-kit His wife Simone is always there to support him. I believe that he is over ninety years of age but he's still building and flying. The model is powered by a pumped OS 120 Surpass.




Old 08-02-2022, 04:12 AM
  #10837  
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Wow! That is a beautiful airplane!
Old 08-02-2022, 07:15 AM
  #10838  
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We have a 90+ fellow in our club. He has dropped out twice in the last decade but can't stay away. I can't help but wonder if it isn't just a convenient way to clear his hanger.
Old 08-03-2022, 06:26 PM
  #10839  
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You are probably right on that matt as I ended up with a 45 fsr max that was very wore out but I gave it to someone a few months ago! cheers Michael Johnston
Old 08-06-2022, 02:50 AM
  #10840  
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Nice picture of the four representatives of my club Berry Marche Modelisme at the fly-in at Gueret last Sunday. We are all wearing our club polo shirts!


Old 08-06-2022, 04:55 AM
  #10841  
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David, you forgot to wear your matching khaki shorts!
Old 08-06-2022, 06:03 AM
  #10842  
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Bunch of grumpy old men. Reminds me of the club I belong to. LMAO
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Old 08-06-2022, 06:56 AM
  #10843  
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Originally Posted by acdii
Bunch of grumpy old men. Reminds me of the club I belong to. LMAO
Not to worry as every club has a group of them and guess what, I qualify for inclusion in my club.
Old 08-06-2022, 07:01 AM
  #10844  
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Yep, and we spend more time exercising our jaws than actually flying.
Old 08-06-2022, 07:46 AM
  #10845  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
David, you forgot to wear your matching khaki shorts!
And sun glasses!
Old 08-06-2022, 07:48 AM
  #10846  
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Originally Posted by karolh
Originally Posted by acdii
Bunch of grumpy old men. Reminds me of the club I belong to. LMAO
Not to worry as every club has a group of them and guess what, I qualify for inclusion in my club.
We're all OCD (old, cranky and dangerous)!
Old 08-06-2022, 09:16 AM
  #10847  
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Originally Posted by GallopingGhostler
We're all OCD (old, cranky and dangerous)!
Isn't that short for curmudgeon?
Old 08-06-2022, 10:11 AM
  #10848  
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
Originally Posted by GallopingGhostler
We're all OCD (old, cranky and dangerous)!
Isn't that short for curmudgeon?
True, if you are on the other side of the pond. This side of the pond, the younger generation understand chat terms better.


Downloaded this 2 years ago, can't remember where I got it, but it is text only.
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Old 08-07-2022, 05:07 AM
  #10849  
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In Post 10766 I copied some footage of the Band of the Coldstream Guards playing "The Star Spangled Banner," outside Buckingham Palace in London a few days after 9/11.

Early last week I was asked to perform a few numbers at an open mic session in a nearby town. I have led rock bands on and off since I was fifteen but I hadn't picked up the guitar in months so I got in some furious practice over several days resulting mainly in bruised finger tips! Perversley, instead of playing songs I already know, I am always keen to perform my most recently learned numbers! This is a policy fraught with potential problems, fluffed lyrics and mistakes with the chord sequences being the least of my worries. I wanted to sing "The Irish Rover," a traditional Irish folksong about a ship and though I'd got the lyrics and the chord changes off by heart I could not remember how the song started! I was making a real horlicks of it in practice! So then I picked out the melody on the guitar and what do you know? The first four or five notes of the first line of every verse of "The Irish Rover" are exactly the same as the first four or five notes of "The Star Spangled Banner!" So now I'll never forget the melody! I included it in my set last night and it went down a storm. A lady even jumped up onto the stage to accompany me on a bodhran!

Here's The Dubliners' version of the song, see if you agree.


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Old 08-07-2022, 08:04 AM
  #10850  
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I was watching a video about the traits common to successful fighter pilots. It listed off the things that you have heard before about them being bright, athletic, having previous experience as a pilot and so on. It was notable that an above average number were also musicians.

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