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How to offer guidance to a friend who thinks he has RC figured out

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How to offer guidance to a friend who thinks he has RC figured out

Old 01-17-2015, 08:29 AM
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jester_s1
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Default How to offer guidance to a friend who thinks he has RC figured out

Neighbor across the street has no RC experience, but he has gotten interested because of seeing my planes. A few weeks ago, he said he had seen a Cub at the hobby shop he was going to get. I advised him that Cubs are neat planes (I have one), but are not for beginners because of their aerodynamic quirks and sensitive ground handling. Then he changed the subject. Last night, he had gone back and gotten excited about an F14 EDF that he had decided to get. Obviously, that's even worse than the Cub. I tried to be as gentle as I could to say that jets require some fairly well developed flying skills, not to mention that the smaller ones are hard to see. I told him about several guys I had seen at the club with EDFs like the one he was describing taking them home in trash bags because they weren't ready, some of which were guys who had been sport flying for a few years. I then suggested the Eflite Apprentice as a suitable beginner's plane. He looked a little annoyed that I didn't affirm his choice and changed the subject again. The guy is a bit of an imbecile who doesn't think about the consequences of his actions, acts a lot like Private Pyle from "Full Metal Jacket" except less crazy.

So how do you guys handle these conversations? I care more about the friendship than the poor unsuspecting planes he's going to crash, but I'd also like to be a friend and help him out.
Old 01-17-2015, 09:51 AM
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Be there with him, be a supportive friend, when the time comes his wallet will out vote his wants. Then you will more than likely be invited to lend a hand. No matter how hard headed one is the wallet will always win out, one way or another.
Old 01-17-2015, 10:16 AM
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Hi Jester ,

Well , , it sounds as if this jet he bought is a goner . Done . Finished . It's flying time will be measured in microseconds .......

Now , since this is someone you want as a friend , and he won't take your experienced advise , your only option will be to either try to talk him into letting you buddy box him on his jet , let him take it for a moment while "3 mistakes high" , and hopefully he'll quickly see it ain't as easy as it looks , Or , make sure you are NO WHERE NEAR the field on the day of the shredding of the foam .

I hear ya that your buddy is putting ya into a kinda crappy situation , and
I commend you for being friend enough to try to help him , hard headed as he may be .....

Last edited by init4fun; 01-17-2015 at 10:56 AM. Reason: PS GREAT advice 804 !
Old 01-17-2015, 10:36 AM
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First thing I'd do is edit the "imbecile"
comment from your post in case he decides
to come here and browse around a bit.
Then if possible, take him out and buddy-box
with him on one of your easy flying planes to
show him the difficulties and show you what, if
anything, he knows. Then go from there.
Old 01-17-2015, 07:12 PM
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jester_s1
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He hasn't bought the jet yet. And I seriously doubt he'll ask me to buddy box with him even if I offer. And there's no way he'll get on here asking for help; he's not the sort to research things. Actually, he's not the sort to try and do anything the right way. I guess he's not as much a friend to me as a project (I'm sure there's a better word than that, but it eludes me at the moment). He has much bigger problems in life than his choice in RC planes, but I can't resist trying to get involved. I really hope to have conversations about the much bigger concerns at some point, but if he'll let me help him with RC maybe that's a place to start. I'm just not so good at how to react when a guy tells me about his plan to do something that I am 100% sure won't work out.
Old 01-17-2015, 07:26 PM
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We have some great guys in our club who insist on getting planes that are way above their skill level. When they ask for help I give it. When they ask for advice they get my opinion. When it's time to pick up the pieces in a trash bag I don't say "I told you so". Eventually they figure it out.
Old 01-18-2015, 04:14 AM
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Rob2160
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
Neighbor across the street has no RC experience, but he has gotten interested because of seeing my planes. A few weeks ago, he said he had seen a Cub at the hobby shop he was going to get. I advised him that Cubs are neat planes (I have one), but are not for beginners because of their aerodynamic quirks and sensitive ground handling. Then he changed the subject. Last night, he had gone back and gotten excited about an F14 EDF that he had decided to get. Obviously, that's even worse than the Cub. I tried to be as gentle as I could to say that jets require some fairly well developed flying skills, not to mention that the smaller ones are hard to see. I told him about several guys I had seen at the club with EDFs like the one he was describing taking them home in trash bags because they weren't ready, some of which were guys who had been sport flying for a few years. I then suggested the Eflite Apprentice as a suitable beginner's plane. He looked a little annoyed that I didn't affirm his choice and changed the subject again. The guy is a bit of an imbecile who doesn't think about the consequences of his actions, acts a lot like Private Pyle from "Full Metal Jacket" except less crazy.

So how do you guys handle these conversations? I care more about the friendship than the poor unsuspecting planes he's going to crash, but I'd also like to be a friend and help him out.
That is a tough one Jester and I can sympathise, I had a neighbour exactly the same when I lived in Perth and he used to watch me fly every day. He started to show more interest and asked me to teach him. I gave him a few basics with my planes but suggested he needs a trainer and his own radio.

We spent two hours online and I showed him exactly what to buy and he wrote it all down carefully.

Two weeks later his new EDF F35 jet arrives - to make things worse, it was a really terrible model and severely underpowered. I took one look at it and knew it would be a disaster. I offered to build it for him and test fly.. the next day he turns up with it built.. including 1 cm gaps in all the control surfaces. I just had to tell him straight that the plane was a bad choice and was totally unsuitable and I would be lucky to be able to fly it myself (we never did)

You have the experience and willingness to help him and by taking your advice he could make a success of it. But if he doesn't listen, there is not much else you can do except politely give a few pointers.

Perhaps also encourage him to try a simulator first?

If all else fails, let him watch this video. (an oldie but a goodie)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx5Es0bnulM

Last edited by Rob2160; 01-18-2015 at 04:20 AM.
Old 01-18-2015, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
Neighbor across the street has no RC experience, but he has gotten interested because of seeing my planes. A few weeks ago, he said he had seen a Cub at the hobby shop he was going to get. I advised him that Cubs are neat planes (I have one), but are not for beginners because of their aerodynamic quirks and sensitive ground handling. Then he changed the subject. Last night, he had gone back and gotten excited about an F14 EDF that he had decided to get. Obviously, that's even worse than the Cub. I tried to be as gentle as I could to say that jets require some fairly well developed flying skills, not to mention that the smaller ones are hard to see. I told him about several guys I had seen at the club with EDFs like the one he was describing taking them home in trash bags because they weren't ready, some of which were guys who had been sport flying for a few years. I then suggested the Eflite Apprentice as a suitable beginner's plane. He looked a little annoyed that I didn't affirm his choice and changed the subject again. The guy is a bit of an imbecile who doesn't think about the consequences of his actions, acts a lot like Private Pyle from "Full Metal Jacket" except less crazy.

So how do you guys handle these conversations? I care more about the friendship than the poor unsuspecting planes he's going to crash, but I'd also like to be a friend and help him out.
All you can do is give him your suggestions, then let him do what he is planning to do anyway. Also suggest he bring a bag to the field.

Originally Posted by Rob2160 View Post
That is a tough one Jester and I can sympathise, I had a neighbour exactly the same when I lived in Perth and he used to watch me fly every day. He started to show more interest and asked me to teach him. I gave him a few basics with my planes but suggested he needs a trainer and his own radio.

We spent two hours online and I showed him exactly what to buy and he wrote it all down carefully.

Two weeks later his new EDF F35 jet arrives - to make things worse, it was a really terrible model and severely underpowered. I took one look at it and knew it would be a disaster. I offered to build it for him and test fly.. the next day he turns up with it built.. including 1 cm gaps in all the control surfaces. I just had to tell him straight that the plane was a bad choice and was totally unsuitable and I would be lucky to be able to fly it myself (we never did)

You have the experience and willingness to help him and by taking your advice he could make a success of it. But if he doesn't listen, there is not much else you can do except politely give a few pointers.

Perhaps also encourage him to try a simulator first?

If all else fails, let him watch this video. (an oldie but a goodie)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx5Es0bnulM

Rob that video is pure gold. Anyone who flies will instantly recognize that scenario. Hard to tell what is the best line.

"it will go 100 miles per hour". "oh god, where is that lipo now" "bring a bag to the field".....

Thanks for the morning laugh!
Old 01-18-2015, 05:51 AM
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Have him go out and purchase a " RTF ".

Fire it up for him, hand him the transmitter, and say, your all set Mr. Genius !!

In about one minute, maybe less, you will have a very humble neighbor / friend. And maybe not a friend anymore. I doubt he will move away, thus you will still have the " know it all neighbor ". LOL
Old 01-18-2015, 07:05 AM
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Or, tell him to get that little Cub with the gyro system. Go out with him, trim it out for him and let him fly it with your training. I think one of the Cubs has a panic button to help newcomers get past it when they get in trouble The Deltaray has this system. He may be interested it to start with as it's a little hotter looking than the Cub. I was training with mine till I decided to hop it up a bit.

Gord.
Old 01-18-2015, 07:35 AM
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Ask him whether he thinks that real jet fighter pilots learned on an F14.
Old 01-18-2015, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Granpooba View Post
Have him go out and purchase a " RTF ".

Fire it up for him, hand him the transmitter, and say, your all set Mr. Genius !!
No Way!!!! After he kills someone with his planes, that person's family will surely make you culpable. If he won't listen, buy the proper plane and get proper instruction then don't touch his plane and don't sign off on it in any way at all.
Old 01-18-2015, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
He hasn't bought the jet yet. And I seriously doubt he'll ask me to buddy box with him even if I offer. And there's no way he'll get on here asking for help; he's not the sort to research things. Actually, he's not the sort to try and do anything the right way. I guess he's not as much a friend to me as a project (I'm sure there's a better word than that, but it eludes me at the moment). He has much bigger problems in life than his choice in RC planes, but I can't resist trying to get involved. I really hope to have conversations about the much bigger concerns at some point, but if he'll let me help him with RC maybe that's a place to start. I'm just not so good at how to react when a guy tells me about his plan to do something that I am 100% sure won't work out.
I understand what your saying about wanting to help the guy as a mentor , just never forget , folks resent authority . They do . It's in our thoughts ways and spirits that we don't want to be told what to do . Now to live a "normal" life , most of us tone down the urge to resent being told what to do , for the most part , but there are folks who just won't let go of that need to be "Mr Expert , large and in charge" no matter how obvious the failed results of their stubbornness is . And it sounds as you may be dealing with one of those types . If he senses any kinds of attempted mentorship on your part I'll bet he ignores the RC hobby and moves on to some other interest that catches his eye . Something that he can be the instant authority in .

Funny thing about the Cub . I'm sure the Cub you mentioned in your first post was a scale model of the actual aircraft and with it's straight wing really isn't RC trainer material . Now , to the general public who know little about full scale and nothing about RC , they see the full scale used to train pilots and think ANY Cub is a great RC trainer , and know not of the difference between a scale model and one of the Dihedral winged , Gyro controlled* Cub models built specifically as RC trainers .


* The first RC plane a new flyer uses , sure a Gyro is a great Learning Aide for those first flights and should be switched OFF as soon as the RC pilot can control the plane safely . If used as a permanent flying "crutch" , the pilot will never learn how to "play the wind" to the flight's best advantage . I do not scorn Gyro use in things like rotorcraft or other essential operations (I think I'd have a Gyro in my FPV , If I had one) but think the good ol regular RC monoplane (or Biplane) can get along just fine without it .......
Old 01-18-2015, 08:32 AM
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No you can't drive without learning how to use a clutch!
No you can't learn how to program unless you learn assembly language!
No you can't listen to music unless you can operate a turn-table!
No you can't learn to use the HVAC system unless you know how to build a log fire!
No you can't use my cell phone until you can demonstrate that you can dial a land line.

And that is how stupid the gyro stabilized argument will sound in a couple of years. Yes I can fly... aircraft, heli, and multi-rotors manually and assisted.
Old 01-18-2015, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by on_your_six View Post
No you can't drive without learning how to use a clutch!
No you can't learn how to program unless you learn assembly language!
No you can't listen to music unless you can operate a turn-table!
No you can't learn to use the HVAC system unless you know how to build a log fire!
No you can't use my cell phone until you can demonstrate that you can dial a land line.

And that is how stupid the gyro stabilized argument will sound in a couple of years. Yes I can fly... aircraft, heli, and multi-rotors manually and assisted.
Sorry , dude , but YES a gyro does , as I said , Have it's place , but if you think it's OK as a REPLACEMENT for flying skills then you obviously have learned exactly NOTHING from the French airliner that crashed into the Atlantic after the all infallible autopilot switched itself OFF and the man in the pilot seat hadn't the skills to safely manually pilot the aircraft . !!!!!





Last edited by init4fun; 01-18-2015 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Think about it !!! A generation of "push button pilots" with no clue how to actually FLY an aircraft !!!
Old 01-18-2015, 09:13 AM
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Not your problem, he will figure it out on his own.
Old 01-18-2015, 09:20 AM
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Technology is great but don't call yourself and rc pilot until you can fly stick and rudder without assistance.
Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Sorry , dude , but YES a gyro does , as I said , Have it's place , but if you think it's OK as a REPLACEMENT for flying skills then you obviously have learned exactly NOTHING from the French airliner that crashed into the Atlantic after the all infallible autopilot switched itself OFF and the man in the pilot seat hadn't the skills to safely manually pilot the aircraft . !!!!!




Old 01-18-2015, 09:46 AM
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Gyro system is just another new TOOL. All those student pilots who had to go home because it was too windy out, now at least have a chance for more air time. The plane with the gyro acts like it was a low wind or no wind day. They can get themselves in just as much trouble by not using the right controls and crash just as quick. Just helps to stabilize it when the sticks are in neutral. I took the gyro out of my Deltaray and have been flying it for about a year without it. Yesterday the wind was about 20 mph and it was bouncing around pretty good. I'm in the middle of putting the Lemon gyro system in it as we speak to give it a little more smoothness on the windy days. On a calm day, you don't even know the gyro is in there.

Gord.
Old 01-18-2015, 09:49 AM
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If he is unable to to see what it takes to fly an RC plane then you must show him, try using a simulator with a similar type plane . He will understand what the reset button cost. You might have a new flying buddy.

Last edited by karl hibbs; 01-18-2015 at 11:48 AM. Reason: cops were chasing me
Old 01-18-2015, 10:18 AM
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Wait, what? I bought a Super Cub for my first plane!
Old 01-18-2015, 11:24 AM
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Jester,

We have a saying at our club. " RC flying is self limiting" also an another golden oldie There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots.
If I had a dollar for each newbie that showed up at our field after wrecking his ( insert advanced plane here) I could afford a Ziroli Mustang!
Some guys are just to arrogant for RC.
Old 01-18-2015, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
How to offer guidance to a friend who thinks he has RC figured out.
Just tell him that he's being a big poo-poo head. That usually works for me. The next step would be to smack him into next Wednesday.


If neither of those two options straighten him out, then have an affair with his wife. Chances are that he'd never figure that out since he seems to have his head up his rear-end.
Old 01-18-2015, 03:27 PM
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Oh no, Bobby. I wouldn't touch his wife even with my dog's junk and your butt a pushin'!

The frustrating thing is that he's not an arrogant jerk. If that was the issue I'd actually be quite amused to watch him drill an F14 into the ground. He's not obnoxious and actually considers himself quite stupid. It's one of the few accurate observations I've seen him make in the time that's I've known him. But he's so stupid that he doesn't know what he doesn't know and he doesn't even have enough sense to ask for help or to recognize when help is being given. I'm not even sure he is capable of following a sentence more than 5 words long from beginning to end and actually processing what is being said.
This isn't the first time I've tried to help him. I have a Traxxas Stampede that I get out in the cul de sac and play with the kids with. So his son got the bug for a good RC truck. He couldn't spend the cost of a Stampede, so I recommended one of the 1/16 scale hobby grade trucks for him at a little less than 1/2 the cost. He then goes and buys this fancy piece of junk at a department store for the same price that lasts literally 10 minutes. He had told me it was just like mine because it was the same size. It can't be fixed, and even if it could it wasn't any better than the $25 New Bright stuff. This guy is simply oblivious to knowledge from what I can tell. Truth be told, this is my Messiah complex working itself out more than anything. I know I'm not going to be able to teach this guy anything, but I can't resist trying.
Old 01-18-2015, 04:59 PM
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As the old saying goes -- you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. All you can do is be polite, offer suggestions and help as you've already done and hope for the best for his sake. After he has destroyed his model, you can then offer condolences and go over again the suggestions you offered earlier. Two years ago I received a phone call from a fellow that wanted to become involved with RC airplanes. As the club president at the time I suggested he first come to a meeting, then to the field to see what the hobby is all about. As the conversation progressed, this person tells me he already bought an F-86. He though he could unpack this thing and go flying. Turns out he had no idea what the cost of a turbine was or where to get one and how to go about it. He had no idea what a servo was or what they did. After a very long discussion I suggested I pay him a visit. I did convince him that he was in way over his head in ability and finances with the F-86 and that he should just bite the bullet and sell it for whatever he could get for it. Yes -- he paid way too much. I then took him to my trailer and showed him a trainer that he could start with. Meanwhile, in the house, his two little kids were running around and one of them eventually fell on the transmitter which was on the floor. The left stick gimbal was now trash. I thought I had him convinced this hobby was not to be taken lightly but a couple weeks later he called to say he bought another airplane that would better fit his ability. Wrong again! This time he bought a Hobbico TwinStar (twin engine) full combo from Tower Hobbies. So once again he failed to listen to reason and was out another $508.00. This story continues and only gets worse but there is no point in bothering everyone. Some folks just cannot or will not listen to reason. A divorce eventually put an end to this ordeal (I wonder why!!!!!) The TwinStar and all the combo stuff is now mine and I assure you I did not pay $508.00 for it.
Old 01-18-2015, 07:05 PM
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Oh well, jester. Seems you've done all you can to be a good friend and neighbor to advise him. And thanks for the "heads-up" about his wife.

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