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AMA Useless!

Old 12-14-2015, 03:22 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by acerc View Post
Do you happen to know where the magik button for registering is, I can't find it. I want to see what they require.
In my reading of the ruling it looks like they will not open up the registration link till Dec 21 . The ruling itself states that name , address , and SSN are at least three of the required bits of information and as others have noted the govt. really don't have a great track record of keeping this info out of the hands of hackers ...
Old 12-14-2015, 03:38 PM
  #27  
ovationdave
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Does anyone know (ok, sorry I haven't read though everything) if there is any penalty for not registering? I mean, lets say all of the AMA members register, what is there to ensure that everyone else does? Can a cop make you land and force you to show where your registration number is on your aircraft and fine you if its not there? What is the motivation for those who choose not to follow this registration law? Anything?
Old 12-14-2015, 03:42 PM
  #28  
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That is wrong in so many ways.
It is not about the $5 in three years, just more unreasonable ruling and coming to the conclusion that our highly endorsed AMA has failed yet again to protect their member from this utter government nonsense.
Not sure which one is worse.

Registering our rc planes won't keep the idiots from buying a multirotor and do something stupid. Of course those will not be registered. Logic does not seem to apply here.

I already pay fees for countless and questionable reasons and have to remember all renewal dates, but this is the dumbest of all.
Old 12-14-2015, 03:47 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by ovationdave View Post
Does anyone know (ok, sorry I haven't read though everything) if there is any penalty for not registering? I mean, lets say all of the AMA members register, what is there to ensure that everyone else does? Can a cop make you land and force you to show where your registration number is on your aircraft and fine you if its not there? What is the motivation for those who choose not to follow this registration law? Anything?
Hi Dave ,

It reads that non compliance is punishable by a fine of $27K and 3 years in club fed .....
Old 12-14-2015, 04:31 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by RC_Fanatic View Post
From the FAA FAQ:

Q: Does it cost anything to register?
A: Federal law requires owners to pay $5 to register their aircraft. However, registration is free for the first 30 days to encourage speedy registration of UAS. During the first 30 days, you must pay $5 with a credit card and a $5 credit will appear shortly afterwards.
Can't find that in the document itself. As I said several times, I use the document itself - FAQs are notoriously incorrect.

But if I am wrong then I apologize in advance.
Old 12-14-2015, 04:36 PM
  #31  
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As a AMA leader member, I made my feelings known to AMA in the beginning. Which are: Let FAA handle the people who fly their Quad-copers or Model Airplanes from unauthorized areas and cause damage or hurts someone. Chances are they are not AMA members anyway and if they are AMA members, let FAA have them as well. I have been an AMA member since the mid 70's and have always been a member of an AMA chartered club. I believe the problems we are now facing can only get worse.

Rich
Old 12-14-2015, 05:15 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Papa51 View Post
Yeah, I was waiting until this was somewhat hashed out before renewing my AMA membership for next year. Friday I read on the AMA website that an AMA card would suffice in lieu of FAA registration so I went ahead and renewed my AMA membership. Now I find out that what I read was a crock!
Do you think the seen this coming down the pike? Bated us to buy 2 year membership because they knew they was going to loose members after this new law came out?

Last edited by FokkerD7; 12-14-2015 at 05:16 PM. Reason: Spelling
Old 12-14-2015, 05:34 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by FokkerD7 View Post
Do you think the seen this coming down the pike? Bated us to buy 2 year membership because they knew they was going to loose members after this new law came out?
This is why I did not sign up for the lifetime membership.
There may very well be a time in the not so distant future where the AMA is no longer necessary, required or funded.
Send you $75/year to the FAA/DOT and fly at your local (club) field.
Essentially, take the club signage, forms, paperwork, etc ... scratch out AMA and put in FAA.
Put a small piece of paper in the plane with my AMA info ... scratch that, FAA info ... what's the difference?

The AMA threw decades of membership and members all under the bus in order to chase the MR crowd, seeing membership $$ in their eyes.
As stated my many others, the non AMA members will continue to act as they wish and we will all suffer the continuing consequences.

I look forward to another letter from the AMA stating that they spent another $1M on this latest failed effort.
Memo to AMA leadership:
Go ask your new MR members to foot this bill.
Old 12-14-2015, 05:36 PM
  #34  
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Just another part of fundamentally changing America!
Old 12-14-2015, 05:52 PM
  #35  
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I refuse to register with the FAA so I will sell all of my planes to fund another hobby. I just renewed my AMA and plan to ask for a refund because I will not need insurance for 2016. This foolishness from the FAA will only hurt the people that are not the problem and it will only get more restrictive over time. I have been an AMA member for over 40 years and now it is time to quit.
Old 12-14-2015, 06:14 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by rgburrill View Post
Can't find that in the document itself. As I said several times, I use the document itself - FAQs are notoriously incorrect.

But if I am wrong then I apologize in advance.
Not sure what part you are disagreeing with.
The $5 fee for hobbyist:
"An individual owner registering small unmanned aircraft operated exclusively as model aircraft must pay a single fee of $5 for the issuance of a Certificate of Aircraft Registration and registration number and an additional $5 fee every three years for renewal of the registration. As previously noted, for owners of small unmanned aircraft used exclusively as model aircraft, this registration constitutes registration for all small unmanned aircraft of a single owner, provided those aircraft are all used exclusively as model aircraft. Thus, for this population, part 48 provides cost reduction as compared to part 47, which requires aircraft owners to submit a separate application and $5 fee for each aircraft the owner would like to register."

Or the credit card:
"The fee for small unmanned aircraft registration must be submitted through the web-based registration application process. The registration system will permit the use of any credit, debit, gift or prepaid card using the Visa, MasterCard, American Express, JCB, Discover, or Diners Club network."

If it is the 30-day deal, I think this is a discretionary action to get as many as possible to sign up early so they can demonstrate what a wonderful job they are doing and justify additional employees to build their empires.
Old 12-14-2015, 06:53 PM
  #37  
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RC_Fanatic was that not the way AMA collected 2 years prepay. I think you are on point with your last post. It is still December wonder if we can get all our money back before the first
Old 12-14-2015, 07:02 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by FokkerD7 View Post
RC_Fanatic was that not the way AMA collected 2 years prepay. I think you are on point with your last post. It is still December wonder if we can get all our money back before the first
I'd bet not. At any rate, I plan to continue to fly (fixed-wing sport) for a while yet. But I do think looking for another hobby might be a good idea. The restriction on those of us who follow the rules will continue to increase because of those who do not follow the rules. It's the same with guns. Soon only the criminals and terrorists will be the ones with quad-copters because they are so easy to fly (if you can call setting up a track on your cellphone "flying."
Old 12-14-2015, 07:05 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by geneh-RCU View Post
I refuse to register with the FAA so I will sell all of my planes to fund another hobby. I just renewed my AMA and plan to ask for a refund because I will not need insurance for 2016. This foolishness from the FAA will only hurt the people that are not the problem and it will only get more restrictive over time. I have been an AMA member for over 40 years and now it is time to quit.
Will you ship, or Local Pick Up only?

Seriously though, you have some beautiful planes, is 5 minutes filling out a form and a free registration really going to make you leave the hobby after 40 years? We have all types of restrictions on our lives everyday that we all accept.

At least use your last years of membership run out, and see where things are at the end of 2016.
Old 12-14-2015, 07:16 PM
  #40  
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Once something is lost you never get it back (from the government). Kind'a like gun control, they continue to chip away! Don't think AMA leaders get it. at all.
Old 12-14-2015, 07:23 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
The AMA has been courting drones for the last 2 years and they spent a quarter of a million of our dollars to help promote them. I don't know what they are thinking, but I think that they assume that now all these millions of drone operators are going to come running to the AMA and sign up. But they weren't counting on the FAA slamming their existing members, that being the airplanes/helis flyers. I think it backfired on them. That's strictly my personal opinion of course. And I seriously doubt we are going to see a huge numbers jump in membership because these people buying drones aren't going to want to join the AMA. But once again, my opinion.

Ken

I think you are spot on and I bet a boatload of other AMA members agree.
Old 12-14-2015, 07:23 PM
  #42  
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I'm wondering what purpose the AMA has in the future because if nothing else it's an insurance company and a way to track club events to me at least. Why must I be an AMA member going forward? Between AMA fees, two club fees, the cost of the hobby and now a ridiculous FAA fee where is the incentive to be a member?
AMA what are you going to do for the hobby, for me?
Old 12-14-2015, 07:31 PM
  #43  
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FAA registration:



Since the AMA has raise their dues per year by $25-$75 per year, to protect us from unnecessary FAA regulations and they had failed at their task. I'm asking the AMA to lower next year the registration fee by $25 so go back to the old rate of $50 per year if they do not do this I would suggest that all AMA members drop their membership.


I think the AMA was right in trying to protect quad copters and bringing them into the fold. Since they are by definition remote control aircraft. But the popularity of their growth by not having to have a runway need it for takeoff and landing has led to their popularity. Unfortunately the more people that get involved in flying remote control aircraft leads to unfortunate incidents that's been in the news. Just like you remember in class where you have 30 students in class you can always count on at least 3 of them being goofballs and nut heads.


So we've been paying our AMA membership to provide us with the insurance coverage can anybody state for me where they paid out on claims were aircraft it hit people or cars or buildings etc.?


Don't worry about the government not having your address already do you think that government agencies can hack into the AMA computers, they all have your names and addresses. Just like we heard on the news that if you purchased anything any Target store the Chinese hackers have got that information also if you apply for any government jobs through the Office of Personnel Management the Chinese hackers or Russian hackers have got your information social security number already.

Old 12-14-2015, 08:45 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by rgburrill View Post
Wow. You guys just don't like to read the entire document before talking do you? Easier to just complain.

The gov will NOT getting any credit card or social security info if you register within 30 days. It's not pay now and get a refund. You will have to pay the $5 in three years if it doesn't get changed by a future administration. And registration is only name, address and phone number. No info on plane because you are not registering the plane, just that you have one or more. You will need to put that registration number soewhere on your plane(s) were it is easly reviewed.
Geez, you pay AMA nearly $60 (I think since I no longer pay them anything) per year so what's an extra $1.67?
According to the Q and A section on the FAA website you do pay now and get a refund later and the credit card transaction is part of the authentication process.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/

Q: Does it cost anything to register?

A: Federal law requires owners to pay $5 to register their aircraft. However, registration is free for the first 30 days to encourage speedy registration of UAS. During the first 30 days, you must pay $5 with a credit card and a $5 credit will appear shortly afterwards.

Q. Why do I need to pay to register?

A. The fee will go to pay for the costs of creating the streamlined web-based registry system, and to maintain and improve this system. The FAA is legally required to charge a registration fee.

Q. The website said registration is free. Why am I being charged $5?

A. The credit card transaction helps authenticate the user. You will see a credit for the $5 shortly after the charge appears.

Last edited by Rob2160; 12-14-2015 at 08:48 PM.
Old 12-14-2015, 09:37 PM
  #45  
porcia83
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Rob if you don't mind sharing your thoughts, you have an interesting perspective I'm sure given where you live. I'm not totally familiar with your countries rules/regs...are they similar to this, more stringent etc etc? Did they have a reg process like this and was it relatively easy or cumbersome?
Old 12-14-2015, 09:47 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by cat5752 View Post
See above, check page 182. Then look at the top of 183 and it says you will get a registration number that can be put on all of your fleet. It contradicts itself more than once.
I may be wrong here but I read that general section as referring to parts 47 and 48, which each have different requirements. I see our models as being in 48, which means WE register ourselves, not our planes, with the $5 being for us.

However, as a person who grew up in government (military) and has lived with that system for 67 years, I have a concern that this years $5 will be $15 in 2019, $30 in 2022, and continue growing up to the point it kills the hobby - at which point the government will have totally won and we'll be their serfs for all time.

Sheesh!
Old 12-14-2015, 09:56 PM
  #47  
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$5 every three is what you pay if you own a real airplane. That is where the price came from. Probably there will be a rider on homeowners down the road where it use to be free, because that and the AMA insurance are the pathways to pay for damaged properties or aircraft. The AMA found out in 2007(?) that their lobby was not quite as powerful as Boeing and Lockheed or AOPA. If there was no AMA, the big companies would have shut it all down like they wanted. It is going to suck, but hopefully down the road AMA dues will wave the $5 and register at the same time.
Old 12-14-2015, 09:59 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
The fee sucks, the early recommendations were to charge a penny or something like that so as to be in compliance with Federal Law. I don't think the FAA wanted to go with fees but where told by the OMB they had to. Allegedly this will help with the cost of the site and "streamlining" registration. Seriously doubtful. I would assume someone has already been working on the site, there is no way they can throw something like this together that quick. Anyone taking bets the system won't crash initially?
Remember Obamacare? That website went up "instantly" too.

How's that working out for all y'all?

Oh, yeah, it'll crash - every 5 minutes, probably, until the 30 days is up and they can permanently keep that $5 they "promise" to refund us "shortly".

Sorry if I sound skeptical. I've lived within the govt's systems too long, I guess.
Old 12-14-2015, 10:01 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Rob if you don't mind sharing your thoughts, you have an interesting perspective I'm sure given where you live. I'm not totally familiar with your countries rules/regs...are they similar to this, more stringent etc etc? Did they have a reg process like this and was it relatively easy or cumbersome?
Coincidentally I just arrived in the USA this evening and will be here for several months. I brought a couple of drones and will pay my $5 on the 21st Dec to keep flying them here legally. (I can't actually register due to not being a US Citizen but will get a Certificate of Ownership)

Personally I think a recreational RC pilot should have been exempt from registration requirements and there is precedent for this. For example in Australia recreational RC flyers are exempt from many requirements and this has been in place since 2002.

5. DEFINITION OF A MODEL AIRCRAFT


5.1 A model aircraft is any unmanned aircraft, other than a balloon or kite, which is flown for sport or recreational purposes, weighing not more than 150 kg including fuel and equipment installed in or attached to the aircraft at the commencement of its flight.


5.2 A model aircraft flown for any other purpose is covered by the term ‘Unmanned Aerial Vehicle’ (UAV) and is subject to the rules applicable to UAVs.


5.3 A model aircraft is excluded from the vast majority of the regulations applied to other aircraft. For example, there are no requirements for aircraft registration, pilot licensing or aircraft airworthiness certification,

Last edited by Rob2160; 12-14-2015 at 10:09 PM. Reason: fixed spacing errors in the copied legislation.
Old 12-14-2015, 10:06 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Rob2160 View Post
Coincidentally I just arrived in the USA this evening and will be here for several months. I brought a couple of drones and will pay my $5 on the 21st Dec to keep flying them here legally. (I can't actually register due to not being a US Citizen but will get a Certificate of Ownership)

Personally I think a recreational RC pilot should have been exempt from registration requirements and there is precedent for this. For example in Australia recreational RC flyers are exempt from many requirements and this has been in place since 2002.

5. DEFINITION OF A MODEL AIRCRAFT


5.1 A model aircraft is any unmanned aircraft, other than a balloon or kite, which is flown for sport or recreational purposes, weighing not more than 150 kg including fuel andequipment installed in or attached to the aircraft at the commencement of its flight.


5.2 A model aircraft flown for any other purpose is covered by the term ‘UnmannedAerial Vehicle’ (UAV) and is subject to the rules applicable to UAVs.


5.3 A model aircraft is excluded from the vast majority of the regulations applied toother aircraft. For example, there are no requirements for aircraft registration, pilotlicensing or aircraft airworthiness certification,
Gee...our form is 211 pages long.... I like yours better.

Enjoy your time in the state, hope your based somewhere warm! happy Holidays

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