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AMA says, "Wait to register"

Old 01-09-2016, 09:26 PM
  #451  
VF84sluggo
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Man, y'all reading waaaaaaaaaay too much into my post.

The takeaway is, again, to John Q. Public - and sadly to too many rc'er's - "drone" = ONLY a multi-rotor hovering and flying apparatus, with or without photo/video, method of control irrelevant, weight from 0 to 747-max takeoff weight (or even higher); that most have no clue about rc safety recommendations; and that most non-rc Christmas-gift "drone" (as defined above) recipients have no clue about the FAA registration regulation and stipulations requiring or exempting a person from said regulation..

That's it, nothing more. The format was simply an attempt at humor.

Mea culpa on the AMA question. Remove that from the quiz. I forgot that bringing up the AMA here can be like waving red meat in front of a rabid wolf.

Damn. I'm just gonna go back to lurking and watching the regulars red-ass each other here over the AMA, the FAA, and who knows what else.

Last edited by VF84sluggo; 01-09-2016 at 09:35 PM.
Old 01-10-2016, 05:42 AM
  #452  
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Originally Posted by VF84sluggo View Post
Man, y'all reading waaaaaaaaaay too much into my post.

The takeaway is, again, to John Q. Public - and sadly to too many rc'er's - "drone" = ONLY a multi-rotor hovering and flying apparatus, with or without photo/video, method of control irrelevant, weight from 0 to 747-max takeoff weight (or even higher); that most have no clue about rc safety recommendations; and that most non-rc Christmas-gift "drone" (as defined above) recipients have no clue about the FAA registration regulation and stipulations requiring or exempting a person from said regulation..

That's it, nothing more. The format was simply an attempt at humor.

Mea culpa on the AMA question. Remove that from the quiz. I forgot that bringing up the AMA here can be like waving red meat in front of a rabid wolf.

Damn. I'm just gonna go back to lurking and watching the regulars red-ass each other here over the AMA, the FAA, and who knows what else.
You might have read more into my response as well.....I think we were both trying to point out some of the same things, just in different ways. Don't forget you're in the AMA forum, a mix of wolf and sheeple!
Don't stop posting either, I've enjoyed yours. Between you and Franklin I can barely follow what you are talking about when you get into the techy fly-boy stuff but it's really interesting!
Old 01-10-2016, 05:51 AM
  #453  
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Originally Posted by VF84sluggo View Post
Man, y'all reading waaaaaaaaaay too much into my post.

The takeaway is, again, to John Q. Public - and sadly to too many rc'er's - "drone" = ONLY a multi-rotor hovering and flying apparatus, with or without photo/video, method of control irrelevant, weight from 0 to 747-max takeoff weight (or even higher); that most have no clue about rc safety recommendations; and that most non-rc Christmas-gift "drone" (as defined above) recipients have no clue about the FAA registration regulation and stipulations requiring or exempting a person from said regulation..

That's it, nothing more. The format was simply an attempt at humor.

Mea culpa on the AMA question. Remove that from the quiz. I forgot that bringing up the AMA here can be like waving red meat in front of a rabid wolf.

Damn. I'm just gonna go back to lurking and watching the regulars red-ass each other here over the AMA, the FAA, and who knows what else.
Ain't gonna happen there Sluggo ... we got ya hooked, Hook Line & Sinker. LOL

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown...ion&font=serif
Old 01-10-2016, 06:34 AM
  #454  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Don't forget you're in the AMA forum, a mix of wolf and sheeple!

Don't stop posting either, I've enjoyed yours. Between you and Franklin I can barely follow what you are talking about when you get into the techy fly-boy stuff but it's really interesting!
Yeah, forgot to check the forum. Used to being in the turbine/jet forums it didn't give it any thought....oops So, thanks for the kind words, feathers un-ruffled

Indeed it's fun sharing some 'old times' with Franklin; and he's right: those numbers and other things get hard ingrained in you, starting from the get-go at Whiting or Corpus. Behind the boat coming aboard at midnight-thirty on a dark and stormy night, 'close' ain't gonna be even remotely good enough...and I have been there/done that in an F-14 with a Combined system hydraulic failure, an EMCON recovery, on a North Atlantic night exactly as previously described (even the Russians had to give me a 9.5 on the difficulty factor that night)

Originally Posted by HoundDog View Post
Ain't gonna happen there Sluggo ... we got ya hooked, Hook Line & Sinker. LOL
Yeah, you're right; who the hell am I kidding?


OK, now back to the regularly scheduled 'discussions'........

Last edited by VF84sluggo; 01-10-2016 at 06:41 AM.
Old 01-10-2016, 07:08 AM
  #455  
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Originally Posted by VF84sluggo View Post
Yeah, forgot to check the forum. Used to being in the turbine/jet forums it didn't give it any thought....oops So, thanks for the kind words, feathers un-ruffled

Indeed it's fun sharing some 'old times' with Franklin; and he's right: those numbers and other things get hard ingrained in you, starting from the get-go at Whiting or Corpus. Behind the boat coming aboard at midnight-thirty on a dark and stormy night, 'close' ain't gonna be even remotely good enough...and I have been there/done that in an F-14 with a Combined system hydraulic failure, an EMCON recovery, on a North Atlantic night exactly as previously described (even the Russians had to give me a 9.5 on the difficulty factor that night)


Yeah, you're right; who the hell am I kidding?


OK, now back to the regularly scheduled 'discussions'........
I think you both flew two of the 3 of my most favorite jets out there other than the F-104. I find the whole carrier thing simply amazing, to think that man and technology can produce something so terrifying and so damn cool.....
Old 01-10-2016, 09:26 AM
  #456  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
I think you both flew two of the 3 of my most favorite jets out there other than the F-104. I find the whole carrier thing simply amazing, to think that man and technology can produce something so terrifying and so damn cool.....
And through disciplined operations, daylight flight ops on and off the boat are done without anyone on deck talking on radios, nobody in aircraft talking on radios (within a specific distance from the boat), and nobody in tower talking on the radio. EMCON (or EMissions CONtrol) flight ops are done everytime we have 3000/5 or better. Why? "Amateurs practice until they get it right, PROFESSIONALS practice until they can't get it wrong." There's big difference, and I apply that standard to just about everything I do - full scale flying, rc flying, scuba, athletics, even work.

And during those EMCON day ops, we land airplanes every 45 seconds, with 18 seconds of straightaway (groove) time +/- 3 seconds - all of which is graded, each and every time - with feedback to pilot immediately after. At night, we give a whopping 60 seconds between landings. It's done one way, the same way, every time. But there are limits and deviation from standard operating procedures is considered unprofessional - which is the worst insult someone can say about your flying.

I do my RC flying the same way. Thorough preflight, defined idea of what I plan to do inflight, and then I execute to the plan - with a self debrief. I don't tolerate errors, and continue to practice until I "can't get it wrong." Its one of the reasons I can fly in wind when others don't, am generally unintimidated by crosswinds that ground most folks, etc. Yes, there are conditions that even I can't handle, and yes, when they're present - I don't fly. I don't believe in "pushing it."

This way of conducting "operations" is so powerful that even the medical community is using it now to reduce post surgical complications or other hospital errors: http://psqh.com/marapr06/naval.html
Old 01-10-2016, 01:35 PM
  #457  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post



I do my RC flying the same way. Thorough preflight, defined idea of what I plan to do inflight, and then I execute to the plan - with a self debrief. I don't tolerate errors, and continue to practice until I "can't get it wrong."
I suppose I don't get it, but if I had to fly RC that way, I think I would just burn my stuff and forget it. I cannot imagine not getting it wrong and just not having a plan all the time so the element of fun is there. Not to imply that structure is not good, this just seems way over the top to go out and enjoy RC flying. Everything I have done for fun or hobby, the minute it started to become "work" I knew it was time to back off or the enjoyment factor would tank.
Old 01-10-2016, 02:07 PM
  #458  
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Originally Posted by Luchnia View Post
I suppose I don't get it, but if I had to fly RC that way, I think I would just burn my stuff and forget it. I cannot imagine not getting it wrong and just not having a plan all the time so the element of fun is there. Not to imply that structure is not good, this just seems way over the top to go out and enjoy RC flying. Everything I have done for fun or hobby, the minute it started to become "work" I knew it was time to back off or the enjoyment factor would tank.
That might actually be enjoyable for some. I was at an indoor free flight competition today...you want to talk about precision and process and things like that. Wow. The scales, the minute adjustments, the process. Then they would come back to their table and wrote notes and comments in books. It was quite an eyeopener. I have a friend I fly with who logs absolutely every flight he has, battery readings etc etc. It's not like he goes home and logs them in a spreadsheet either, he's all paper!
Old 01-10-2016, 02:16 PM
  #459  
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Originally Posted by Luchnia View Post
I suppose I don't get it, but if I had to fly RC that way, I think I would just burn my stuff and forget it. I cannot imagine not getting it wrong and just not having a plan all the time so the element of fun is there. Not to imply that structure is not good, this just seems way over the top to go out and enjoy RC flying. Everything I have done for fun or hobby, the minute it started to become "work" I knew it was time to back off or the enjoyment factor would tank.
To each his own, but I actually find it fun and challenging. One day, I was the only one at the field and I spent the entire time doing precision landing practice, landing in the same spot on the runway each time, within one track-width of centerline, no more. The next flight I came at it from the opposite direction and did the same. Then on the third flight I went back and forth between each end. Then I tried another bunch using different crosswind techniques, wing down top rudder one pass, pure crab the next pass. Then switched directions and did it again. When my buddy showed up, I then actually asked him to yank the throttle back on me unexpectedly, then practiced deadsticks. I must have done 150 landings that day.

So, fast forward a year and I'm doing a flight on an aircraft and have an engine failure on climbout as I started my downwind turn. Due to combination of speed (KE), altitude (PE), and distance to the runway, I elected a downwind landing with a decent crosswind. It was a non event because I'd practiced it all those times. It wasn't an unusual sight picture, nor was I dependent on perfect conditions...as i'd practiced landings until I "couldn't get it wrong."
Old 01-10-2016, 02:18 PM
  #460  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
That might actually be enjoyable for some. I was at an indoor free flight competition today...you want to talk about precision and process and things like that. Wow. The scales, the minute adjustments, the process. Then they would come back to their table and wrote notes and comments in books. It was quite an eyeopener. I have a friend I fly with who logs absolutely every flight he has, battery readings etc etc. It's not like he goes home and logs them in a spreadsheet either, he's all paper!
Ok, I must be a nerd. I actually do frequency analysis (audio) to help identify vibrations in my heli. It sure helps having telemetry to match it against the main rotor rotation.
Old 01-10-2016, 02:32 PM
  #461  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Ok, I must be a nerd. I actually do frequency analysis (audio) to help identify vibrations in my heli. It sure helps having telemetry to match it against the main rotor rotation.
Wow...now that is fine tuning. Funny though, this past month I've noted to a few folks at my field that they have vibration issues with either motor mounts or props within seconds of takeoff. Not that it's that hard for the average modeler to hear that and recognize the issues, but I'm surprised how many folks are not aware of the issue, at least on electrics. I don't fly wet yet, but so I'm not as in tune with how those motors run, and when they are rich/lean. At the free flight event today on some of the ultra light models you could tell which had balance issues with their handmade props as the whole frame/structure would shake all over, and the plane would veer to the side. It was really an eye opened to see how these little aircraft reacted to minute changes in weights, control surface changes, even to a few kids running around down below...some of the old timers threw a fit, but they had reason too, you could actually see the disruption in the way the planes flew.
Old 01-10-2016, 02:41 PM
  #462  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Wow...now that is fine tuning. Funny though, this past month I've noted to a few folks at my field that they have vibration issues with either motor mounts or props within seconds of takeoff. Not that it's that hard for the average modeler to hear that and recognize the issues, but I'm surprised how many folks are not aware of the issue, at least on electrics. I don't fly wet yet, but so I'm not as in tune with how those motors run, and when they are rich/lean. At the free flight event today on some of the ultra light models you could tell which had balance issues with their handmade props as the whole frame/structure would shake all over, and the plane would veer to the side. It was really an eye opened to see how these little aircraft reacted to minute changes in weights, control surface changes, even to a few kids running around down below...some of the old timers threw a fit, but they had reason too, you could actually see the disruption in the way the planes flew.
As the models grow in electrical and mechanical complexity, I strongly suspect that many of these incidents that get blamed on this radio brand or that radio brand are actually vibration related failures. Turbines produce a ton of high frequency vibrations, and we see that even in full scale those can wreak havoc.
Old 01-10-2016, 02:49 PM
  #463  
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See, wasn't kidding. Here's audio frequency spectrum of my Trex450 in a hover.
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Old 01-10-2016, 07:42 PM
  #464  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
... I do my RC flying the same way. Thorough preflight, defined idea of what I plan to do inflight, and then I execute to the plan - with a self debrief. I don't tolerate errors, and continue to practice until I "can't get it wrong." Its one of the reasons I can fly in wind when others don't, am generally unintimidated by crosswinds that ground most folks, etc. Yes, there are conditions that even I can't handle, and yes, when they're present - I don't fly. I don't believe in "pushing it." ...
Originally Posted by Luchnia View Post
I suppose I don't get it, but if I had to fly RC that way, I think I would just burn my stuff and forget it. I cannot imagine not getting it wrong and just not having a plan all the time so the element of fun is there. Not to imply that structure is not good, this just seems way over the top to go out and enjoy RC flying. Everything I have done for fun or hobby, the minute it started to become "work" I knew it was time to back off or the enjoyment factor would tank.
Y'gotta love the Navy! They always do it right. While I'm nowhere even close to Franklin's precision, I have always done rather thorough pre-flight & post-flights on my planes - which is probably why most of my fleet of 17 is between 35-45 years old and still operational. Basically, I don't have the $$$ to go taking chances with them. In the past 25 years I've lost one plane, and it was nearly brand new (1966 design, just getting broken in good with 37 flights). That was early this past spring. It'll fly again next spring, but it took a long time to get over the "loss" and get around to correcting what caused the crash in the first place (elevator rod broke) and then start rebuilding her.

However, every flight is fun - and while I'm just an average flyer doing average things in the air, I'd never even consider quitting this hobby after 60 years of building/flying. YES, I keep basic logs for every flight of every plane (date, time running, maintenance issues, etc). That way I've got an idea of what shape each plane is in and when it's time to do a detailed structural inspection (about every 20 operational hours).

BTW, I'm definitely one of the "old school" guys. My planes are all the simple .25-.60 glow, 3 & 4-channel birds, trainers, advanced trainers, sport planes. I like to build, but I like to fly more so none of them have ever been, or will ever be, show planes. Just fun and relaxing.

After all, isn't that the point of the hobby?
Old 01-11-2016, 05:32 AM
  #465  
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No "official" news from the AMA Expo. On the other forum a few are reporting that nothings changed or will before the 2-19 deadline. One guy who's (who's pretty reliable) said he spoke with Hanson who told him "you might as well register" .

Mike
Old 01-11-2016, 05:41 AM
  #466  
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Originally Posted by skylark-flier View Post
Y'gotta love the Navy! They always do it right. While I'm nowhere even close to Franklin's precision, I have always done rather thorough pre-flight & post-flights on my planes - which is probably why most of my fleet of 17 is between 35-45 years old and still operational.
Good for you! I think that is absolutely the reason your fleet is almost entirely intact. Years ago, military aviation had the mentality of "kick the tires, light the fires." Well, it's no wonder we were crashing so often.

Complex systems fail in complex ways, and much of what is flying today are indeed complex systems - gyros, battery busses, servo busses, transmitter programming, multiple receivers, multi-path signals, onboard control systems, vibration issues, onboard EMI, offboard EMI, etc. Some are quick to blame this radio brand or that radio brand when it's likely one or more of the above (or the one that's really the case most often - pilot error).
Old 01-11-2016, 06:24 AM
  #467  
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOeoHJZdwuw


The Q and A starts at about 18:20 mark.

Mike
Old 01-11-2016, 06:44 AM
  #468  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Good for you! I think that is absolutely the reason your fleet is almost entirely intact. Years ago, military aviation had the mentality of "kick the tires, light the fires." Well, it's no wonder we were crashing so often.

Complex systems fail in complex ways, and much of what is flying today are indeed complex systems - gyros, battery busses, servo busses, transmitter programming, multiple receivers, multi-path signals, onboard control systems, vibration issues, onboard EMI, offboard EMI, etc. Some are quick to blame this radio brand or that radio brand when it's likely one or more of the above (or the one that's really the case most often - pilot error).
Agreed, totally. And that's another factor in some of my planes' longevity - they're still ALL on 72MHz, some are still running the old Futaba Conquest radios. Yeah, they're old, but absolutely reliable. I may or may not eventually go to the 2.4GHz radios but not before I actually see some of the rampant failures go away, and I'm still seeing far too many - for whatever reasons. My impression with many of these failures/crashes/flyaways is that the onboard antenna isn't "just right" and it's losing the signal - might be wrong with that, Idunno.

Anyway, they fly, they're safe and legal, and I'm having fun.
Old 01-11-2016, 06:55 AM
  #469  
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FAA / AMA expo discussion. At 59 minutes, Hanson says you might as well go register:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOeoHJZdwuw
Old 01-11-2016, 07:05 AM
  #470  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOeoHJZdwuw


The Q and A starts at about 18:20 mark.

Mike
Thanks!
Old 01-11-2016, 07:19 AM
  #471  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Thanks!

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...ked-questions/

Just ran across this also.

Mike
Old 01-11-2016, 08:01 AM
  #472  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
Yep. Telling us to register. I suspect that Feds will gain access to AMA database as a result.
Old 01-11-2016, 08:26 AM
  #473  
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Umm, it says they did not change their minds about us not registering.
Old 01-11-2016, 08:36 AM
  #474  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
Umm, it says they did not change their minds about us not registering.
What part of this statement is confusing?

"We are continuing to explore all legal and political options available, but these conversations may take time and a long-term solution is unlikely before the February 19 registration deadline. For this reason, we are suggesting that AMA members may wish to take advantage of free registration period, which is available until January 19."

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...ked-questions/
Old 01-11-2016, 09:33 AM
  #475  
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But they said before that members may want to take advantage of the free registration. The word may implies they still recommend waiting, but OK if you don't.

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