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AMA says, "Wait to register"

Old 02-01-2016, 03:49 PM
  #826  
Chris P. Bacon
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Good news though...per the AMA 2015 was the fourth year of consecutive increases in the membership numbers.
Great news!
Old 02-01-2016, 04:23 PM
  #827  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Good news though...per the AMA 2015 was the fourth year of consecutive increases in the membership numbers.

Paid or free memberships?

Mike
Old 02-01-2016, 04:57 PM
  #828  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
Well we know they won't take it from Muncie dollars, or the funds used by leadership, so that doesn't leave many options except things that benefit those outside of Muncie.
It is time to consider the possibility that the negotiations may not produce the desired results.
The AMA should have concurrently pursued negotiations and the lawsuit.'
Now the house will vote on the new FAA re-authorization bill, if the house validates the FAA's authority
over us absent rule 336
It will be pretty hard to find an appeals judge to refute congress

Here is the link to a review of the FAA effectiveness

http://transportation.house.gov/news...umentID=399651

Last edited by jeffrey solomon; 02-01-2016 at 05:01 PM.
Old 02-01-2016, 05:30 PM
  #829  
Chris P. Bacon
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Paid or free memberships?

Mike
Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
See you tomorrow.
Originally Posted by rcmiket
Probably not here's my formula on this, no content = a waste of my time.

Mike

Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
You'll be back.
Welcome back. Even sooner than expected.
Old 02-01-2016, 06:08 PM
  #830  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
Welcome back. Even sooner than expected.


It's still today in my part of the world. Not sure about what day it is in "somewhere".

Mike
Old 02-01-2016, 06:24 PM
  #831  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
Man there Franky that is a great Idea Pull it from the grant money to safe all the AMA registered fields ... great Idea. Might be better spent on congressional Lobbying than suing the Feds ... What ya think there Navy? Anyone?

Originally Posted by franklin_m
For the record, I was being sarcastic... My point was that Muncie or the people making these decisions won't have any consequences for their $250K decision, it'll be us "unwashed masses" that lose the money.
No Kidding ... still a great Idea. It's their Money NOT ours/yours. Still think congressional Lobbying is a viable effort. Much better than a law suite that has little chance to be won.
Old 02-01-2016, 06:38 PM
  #832  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
It's still today in my part of the world. Not sure about what day it is in "somewhere".

Mike
Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
Welcome back. Even sooner than expected.
..
Old 02-01-2016, 06:43 PM
  #833  
porcia83
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Paid or free memberships?

Mike
At the end of the day, does it matter? I mean I know it will to some, for the purposes of arguing one point or another (usually a derivative of AMA = bad= failure).

Sure, some memberships are free, the majority of them being children. Of course these aren't just kids that wander in off the streets and want to join, these are most likely children of current members. It's just good sound business to bring those kids into the fold and hope that they see the full range of benefits in joining and eventually paying for and AMA membership. Look around the clubs....take a guess what the "average" membership profile is. The "cost" to give a membership away to a kid is negligible.

As for the breakdown on free versus paid, they didn't give it. This too I'm sure will be pointed out as a failure, an attempt to keep things secret etc etc. The info came in the most recent e-mail blast they sent out, within a few days.

I think we've discussed this before, or it was Franklin I believe...and I think we agreed that there would be an uptick in the membership numbers for 2015, one reason being the "discount" offer that was presented. I think the numbers would have to be looked at in 2016 and ultimately 2017 to see if there was a net gain or loss. I'm sure there is a report out there somewhere that showed and average up or down count over the last say 6 years. I know the financial report has overall numbers, not a breakdown though. I don't know if there is a general number that shows decreases, there has to be though. The other factor was of course the "drones" and what type of membership that would draw. Making a WAG I'd say we would see more joining for the racing piece than the photography piece, but as of now I can't think of a way that this could be validated, short of another survey. Perhaps one will go out to all the membership in 2016/2017 asking what it is each person flies, and keeping the open ended questions to a minimum. Easier to send out and get back, easier to review and analyze. More specific data from which to plan marketing, membership, spending etc etc. I've got to imagine that's already been thought through. At least I would hope.
Old 02-01-2016, 08:41 PM
  #834  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
At the end of the day, does it matter?
It does, because it's only the paying members that provide the resources to support the organization's goals.

So, was the increase in paying members?
Old 02-01-2016, 09:00 PM
  #835  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
It does, because it's only the paying members that provide the resources to support the organization's goals.

So, was the increase in paying members?
It all depends on what you're measuring.

In my experience the biggest complainers would be those 55+ year olds with a six figure income complaining about a 10 year old kid getting a free AMA membership while he had to pay for his. Yup, there are a few in every club.
Old 02-02-2016, 04:37 AM
  #836  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
It does, because it's only the paying members that provide the resources to support the organization's goals.

So, was the increase in paying members?
AFIK all members are payed members. There are some free AMA memberships, but the memberships is paid by the retail stores doing the promotion. Though that may be discounted.
Old 02-02-2016, 05:40 AM
  #837  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
It all depends on what you're measuring.
Paid memberships
Old 02-02-2016, 05:52 AM
  #838  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot
AFIK all members are payed members. There are some free AMA memberships, but the memberships is paid by the retail stores doing the promotion. Though that may be discounted.
Not all memberships are paid, there are many youth memberships that are "free", and I'm sure there are some others as well.
Old 02-02-2016, 06:00 AM
  #839  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
It does, because it's only the paying members that provide the resources to support the organization's goals.

So, was the increase in paying members?
You have access to the same info I do, as noted above the latest e-mail came from the AMA and noted a 4th consecutive year of membership increases.

I've never seen the number of 50k free memberships other than here, so I doubt that as an accurate figure. I'd guess somewhere closer to 30k. Obviously the paid memberships provide the working capitol, but they are also the ones using the resources as well for the most part. The youth memberships don't really cost the AMA anything, and it's the best way to hopefully see new paid membership when the time comes. It's the same thing most smart clubs do, offer either a free or significantly reduced membership fee to kids (like $1.00)

The strategy is a sound one, you can't really have a problem with the AMA giving a kid a free membership can you?
Old 02-02-2016, 06:45 AM
  #840  
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Originally Posted by porcia83

I've never seen the number of 50k free memberships other than here, so I doubt that as an accurate figure. I'd guess somewhere closer to 30k. Obviously the paid memberships provide the working capitol, but they are also the ones using the resources as well for the most part. The youth memberships don't really cost the AMA anything, and it's the best way to hopefully see new paid membership when the time comes. It's the same thing most smart clubs do, offer either a free or significantly reduced membership fee to kids (like $1.00)
I posted this 12-4-15 and it's a direct quote from Model Aviation. So the AMA has said they have 50,000 youth memberships.

"I was just thumbing thru the latest issue of M.A.
From the Copilots Seat Page 140

""Only 5 years ago we had roughly 142,000 ,but 2015 saw our membership grow to a all time high of 187,666 Of that more than 50,000 are youth members."

So in reality we have 137,666 ( if that) paying members. I have no problem with youth members but lets be more realistic on paying members footing the bill. "

Just thought I'd clear this up.

Mike
Old 02-02-2016, 07:45 AM
  #841  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
It does, because it's only the paying members that provide the resources to support the organization's goals.

Not true, it's not ONLY paying members that provide the resources to support the organization's goals. The AMA has several different revenue streams that support the organization's goals including advertising (print/web), IAC rental, museum admissions/store, club charter fees, sanctioned event fees, donations, AMA expo, etc.

So, was the increase in paying members?
..
Old 02-02-2016, 07:45 AM
  #842  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
I posted this 12-4-15 and it's a direct quote from Model Aviation. So the AMA has said they have 50,000 youth memberships.

"I was just thumbing thru the latest issue of M.A.
From the Copilots Seat Page 140

""Only 5 years ago we had roughly 142,000 ,but 2015 saw our membership grow to a all time high of 187,666 Of that more than 50,000 are youth members."

So in reality we have 137,666 ( if that) paying members. I have no problem with youth members but lets be more realistic on paying members footing the bill. "

Just thought I'd clear this up.

Mike
I told you you'd be back.
Old 02-02-2016, 07:55 AM
  #843  
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
I posted this 12-4-15 and it's a direct quote from Model Aviation. So the AMA has said they have 50,000 youth memberships.

"I was just thumbing thru the latest issue of M.A.
From the Copilots Seat Page 140

""Only 5 years ago we had roughly 142,000 ,but 2015 saw our membership grow to a all time high of 187,666 Of that more than 50,000 are youth members."

So in reality we have 137,666 ( if that) paying members. I have no problem with youth members but lets be more realistic on paying members footing the bill. "

Keep in mind not all paying members are paying the same amount. Perhaps Senior members should only receive partial credit for footing the bill.

Just thought I'd clear this up.

Just thought I'd tie up a few loose ends.

Mike
..
Old 02-02-2016, 08:14 AM
  #844  
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K, thanks for the clarification. I'm happy to see that many youth involved
Old 02-02-2016, 08:28 AM
  #845  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
K, thanks for the clarification. I'm happy to see that many youth involved
+1! That's the only way our hobby is going to be able to sustain itself in the future. Great forward thinking by the AMA to offer free youth memberships.
Old 02-02-2016, 10:56 AM
  #846  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
..Originally Posted by franklin_m It does, because it's only the paying members that provide the resources to support the organization's goals.

Not true, it's not ONLY paying members that provide the resources to support the organization's goals. The AMA has several different revenue streams that support the organization's goals including advertising (print/web), IAC rental, museum admissions/store, club charter fees, sanctioned event fees, donations, AMA expo, etc.

So, was the increase in paying members?
And due to non-profit tax rules, many of those other revenue sources may well be limited in how they can be spent. So just because something under the umbrella of the AMA brings in money does not mean that all that revenue can be spent on anything.
Old 02-02-2016, 10:59 AM
  #847  
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Originally Posted by porcia83
The strategy is a sound one, you can't really have a problem with the AMA giving a kid a free membership can you?
When that decision results in an unplanned $250,000 expense over the next three years than yes, I do have a problem with it.
Old 02-02-2016, 11:00 AM
  #848  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon
+1! That's the only way our hobby is going to be able to sustain itself in the future. Great forward thinking by the AMA to offer free youth memberships.
Then how about you join with me and demand AMA give us information on how many of those "free" memberships turn into paid memberships at age 18. Seems like that would be a good measure of the program's effectiveness.
Old 02-02-2016, 11:06 AM
  #849  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
And due to non-profit tax rules, many of those other revenue sources may well be limited in how they can be spent. So just because something under the umbrella of the AMA brings in money does not mean that all that revenue can be spent on anything.
Are you speculating again or can you show us specifically where in the non-profit tax rules it states how this revenue can be spent?
Old 02-02-2016, 11:27 AM
  #850  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
Then how about you join with me and demand AMA give us information on how many of those "free" memberships turn into paid memberships at age 18. Seems like that would be a good measure of the program's effectiveness.
Per the current AMA membership application: "For children and young adults under 19 as of July 1, 2016."

I don't see a minimum age for free youth memberships. Are you seriously that bitter about the AMA you're going to wait up to 20 years just to see if the AMA's youth membership program is effective? Is that all it is to you, a numbers game? Management by spreadsheet? How about the manager in Flint, MI who thought he/she was saving $1M by switching their water source? Looked good on the spreadsheet, right? Going to save a $1M annually, right? How about the conservative 75M+ estimate it's going to take to fix the problem? How about all the children (especially) and adults whose lives are now forever changed due to lead poisoning? Yeah, management by spreadsheet, those are some serious leadership skills.

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