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AMA says, "Wait to register"

Old 12-17-2015, 02:29 PM
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Rv7garage
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Default AMA says, "Wait to register"

So now the AMA is urging us to hold off on registering with the FAA.

Does anyone else feel like a hostage? Lol
Old 12-17-2015, 02:39 PM
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EchoBravo
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On the contrary, I feel a bit of relief with this announcement.

I truly believe that the AMA is going to do everything they can to put this right for AMA members both current and future by seeing that 336 does what it is intended to do.

Last edited by EchoBravo; 12-17-2015 at 02:41 PM.
Old 12-17-2015, 02:48 PM
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Rv7garage
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I hope so. I'm sure they are.
Old 12-17-2015, 03:38 PM
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RCKen
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Ok, anybody that has seen my posts in the "Useless AMA" thread knows that I try to stay as neutral as I can in all things that go in anything that goes on here on RCU, especially as controversial as these recent event concerning the FAA rulings. I said I was going to climb off my soapbox after my rant about the AMA's recent mailing about cheap auto insurance. But now I feel the need to pull the soapbox back out and dust it back off.

I see this mailing by the AMA and they are encouraging us (I stay short of calling it instructing us) to "hold off registering" under the FAA registration system that kicks in starting next Monday. Soooooooooo, let's get this straight now. The AMA now has the legal authority to overrule an agency of the Federal Government. Now please DO NOT get me wrong her that I like the new system of having to register my airplanes, because I hate the entire idea and I want it gone. But, come Monday the 21st it IS Federal regulation that can be backup up with penalties in Federal Courts. So the AMA can tell us to simply not do that. I know that this is going to be a scenario that probably will not happen, but let's play what if for a second. Let's say that I don't register as per the AMA's instructions, and then on January 1st I go out for my club's annual Chili Fly (we cook up pots of chili and go and and fly regardless of the weather). Lo and behold a Federal Officer shows up and wants to see my Federal Registration for me flying my airplanes and I tell him that "Oh, the AMA said I didn't have to do it". Wrong answer.... I get slammed. If you read down the documentation of the new regulation the max fines are up to $250,00 and up to 3 years on jail. So, if I were to get busted for flying without registering my planes is the AMA going to pay for my fines??? Is Bob Brown or Dave Mathewson going to go sit in a jail cell for me??

Once again the AMA has made a bad call. While I hate the FAA and I think that they made bad call by including Model Aircraft in with the drones, the AMA has made a worse call by telling it's membership to ignore Federal Regulations. I really am starting to wonder what is going on in Muncie and what they are thinking when they make these calls, because they really seem less and less like they have the best welfare of the membership in mind when they make calls like this. In fact, this current call to me just stinks more and more of the Executive Council trying to make themselves look good. They are trying to make themselves took like heros that "swooped" in to save us all. Well in my mind they are the part of the problem and not part of the solution, and following their advice to not register is just going to compound that problem. We really need to start voting these guys out of office, starting with Bob Brown.

Does anybody else see the same thing I am seeing here?? Or am I just being goofy??

Ok, Rant Mode off. Soapbox is back in the closet.

Ken
Old 12-17-2015, 03:50 PM
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TLH101
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
Ok, anybody that has seen my posts in the "Useless AMA" thread knows that I try to stay as neutral as I can in all things that go in anything that goes on here on RCU, especially as controversial as these recent event concerning the FAA rulings. I said I was going to climb off my soapbox after my rant about the AMA's recent mailing about cheap auto insurance. But now I feel the need to pull the soapbox back out and dust it back off.

I see this mailing by the AMA and they are encouraging us (I stay short of calling it instructing us) to "hold off registering" under the FAA registration system that kicks in starting next Monday. Soooooooooo, let's get this straight now. The AMA now has the legal authority to overrule an agency of the Federal Government. Now please DO NOT get me wrong her that I like the new system of having to register my airplanes, because I hate the entire idea and I want it gone. But, come Monday the 21st it IS Federal regulation that can be backup up with penalties in Federal Courts. So the AMA can tell us to simply not do that. I know that this is going to be a scenario that probably will not happen, but let's play what if for a second. Let's say that I don't register as per the AMA's instructions, and then on January 1st I go out for my club's annual Chili Fly (we cook up pots of chili and go and and fly regardless of the weather). Lo and behold a Federal Officer shows up and wants to see my Federal Registration for me flying my airplanes and I tell him that "Oh, the AMA said I didn't have to do it". Wrong answer.... I get slammed. If you read down the documentation of the new regulation the max fines are up to $250,00 and up to 3 years on jail. So, if I were to get busted for flying without registering my planes is the AMA going to pay for my fines??? Is Bob Brown or Dave Mathewson going to go sit in a jail cell for me??

Once again the AMA has made a bad call. While I hate the FAA and I think that they made bad call by including Model Aircraft in with the drones, the AMA has made a worse call by telling it's membership to ignore Federal Regulations. I really am starting to wonder what is going on in Muncie and what they are thinking when they make these calls, because they really seem less and less like they have the best welfare of the membership in mind when they make calls like this. In fact, this current call to me just stinks more and more of the Executive Council trying to make themselves look good. They are trying to make themselves took like heros that "swooped" in to save us all. Well in my mind they are the part of the problem and not part of the solution, and following their advice to not register is just going to compound that problem. We really need to start voting these guys out of office, starting with Bob Brown.

Does anybody else see the same thing I am seeing here?? Or am I just being goofy??

Ok, Rant Mode off. Soapbox is back in the closet.

Ken
You can fly on Jan 1 without any issue: http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
Q34. When must UAS owners who purchased their aircraft before December 21, 2015 register?
A. UAS operated by the current owner prior to December 21, 2015, must be registered no later than February 19, 2016. For all other UAS, registration is required prior to operation.
Old 12-17-2015, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
Ok, anybody that has seen my posts in the "Useless AMA" thread knows that I try to stay as neutral as I can in all things that go in anything that goes on here on RCU, especially as controversial as these recent event concerning the FAA rulings. I said I was going to climb off my soapbox after my rant about the AMA's recent mailing about cheap auto insurance. But now I feel the need to pull the soapbox back out and dust it back off.

I see this mailing by the AMA and they are encouraging us (I stay short of calling it instructing us) to "hold off registering" under the FAA registration system that kicks in starting next Monday. Soooooooooo, let's get this straight now. The AMA now has the legal authority to overrule an agency of the Federal Government. Now please DO NOT get me wrong her that I like the new system of having to register my airplanes, because I hate the entire idea and I want it gone. But, come Monday the 21st it IS Federal regulation that can be backup up with penalties in Federal Courts. So the AMA can tell us to simply not do that. I know that this is going to be a scenario that probably will not happen, but let's play what if for a second. Let's say that I don't register as per the AMA's instructions, and then on January 1st I go out for my club's annual Chili Fly (we cook up pots of chili and go and and fly regardless of the weather). Lo and behold a Federal Officer shows up and wants to see my Federal Registration for me flying my airplanes and I tell him that "Oh, the AMA said I didn't have to do it". Wrong answer.... I get slammed. If you read down the documentation of the new regulation the max fines are up to $250,00 and up to 3 years on jail. So, if I were to get busted for flying without registering my planes is the AMA going to pay for my fines??? Is Bob Brown or Dave Mathewson going to go sit in a jail cell for me??

Once again the AMA has made a bad call. While I hate the FAA and I think that they made bad call by including Model Aircraft in with the drones, the AMA has made a worse call by telling it's membership to ignore Federal Regulations. I really am starting to wonder what is going on in Muncie and what they are thinking when they make these calls, because they really seem less and less like they have the best welfare of the membership in mind when they make calls like this. In fact, this current call to me just stinks more and more of the Executive Council trying to make themselves look good. They are trying to make themselves took like heros that "swooped" in to save us all. Well in my mind they are the part of the problem and not part of the solution, and following their advice to not register is just going to compound that problem. We really need to start voting these guys out of office, starting with Bob Brown.

Does anybody else see the same thing I am seeing here?? Or am I just being goofy??

Ok, Rant Mode off. Soapbox is back in the closet.

Ken
I agree 100%, I have already made the choice to register early and if it turns out we don't have to then good but I doubt that will be the case but I see no harm in anyone doing their resignation now. If everyone waits to the last
day not only will you have to pay the five bucks although that won't break the piggy bank but I think it will be more of a hassle and may cause some to be out of compliance for a long time after the grace period is over.
Old 12-17-2015, 08:19 PM
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I am going to register on Monday just so I can get it out of the way. It will be free and good for 3 years and I enjoy flying my planes. I understand why the AMA is saying what it is saying as they have filed some legal claims against the FAA and they will want to see what happens with that. I also understand that using our AMA numbers would be a lot easier as we are supposed to have our number on our planes already, or an address. It is ashamed that it has come to this because some of the Drone Idiot's have to fly around airliners and forest fires, but it is what it is. I just heard on the news a few days back that Portland Airport, which is the one that I use, was close to the top of the list for reported close encounters with real aircraft and Drone's. Not sure what a Drone would do to a real airplane, but I don't want to be on the plane that finds out. I also do not think that this rule is going to stop the Idiots, as the Hobby Shops are selling Drones by the dozens daily and I would wager an extremely small per centage of the purchasers would register. It is no different than the folks that go to the same Hobby Shop and by a ready to fly plane and head out to the local park, not even knowing about the AMA or a local club and attempt to fly the plane. Once again it goes back to the same old adage, You just can't fix stupid......
Old 12-17-2015, 09:50 PM
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Its all a train wreck. Nobody really knows what to do now.... nobody. I'm feeling a bit of the fun is being depleted from my past 40yrs of enjoying something safely, all for what??? For freakin what? I'm so mad I could spit... right at the arrogant fools that conjured this wad of crapola up. Someone's getting in my biz, and I surely don't like it.... I'm about ready to tell them all KMA... and just simply go fly my planes as I always have, and if I get put in the slammer.... so be it. I'll find the hungriest lawyer in the country and let them go at it. I honestly think in a court of law it would be laughed out. Totally.... what a wad of garbage this has become, just in the last few days.
Old 12-18-2015, 02:13 AM
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It's still hard for me to organize my argument against the FAA ruling.
It's "nuanced" as they say. It has many facets.

However, I can see one thing.

This FAA ruling is such a stinking piece of regulation it simply won't stand as long as it is resisted.
It is so amateur that it is an embarrassment to the agency. Written so poorly, so full of inconsistencies, that it will fall apart in court.
It was a rabid, knee-jerk reaction to having to do something before Christmas when all this year's gifted multirotors hit the skies at 8 a.m. local time, 25 Dec.

The message from the AMA is saying - keep your heads about yourself. That is what I recommend we do as a group.
The AMA is not the only group that will be coming up against the FAA.
The FAA just opened up a bees nest.
The best way to do something about this right now is call your Congressperson today. Friday. 18 December. 2015.
I called mine yesterday in DC, talked to a very professional staffer who took down my contact info and listened attentatively.
I let him know this was the first and only time I ever called any Reps office about anything, that that is how important this is to me.
So, Just do it. I wouldn't overthink it - get your Rep at http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

That is one way you can feel good that you are raising the stakes against the FAA.
Do try to have a few factual points to make and form a decent argument.
The biggest point I tried to make on the line was that the reg was horribly formed and just sent up as a smoke screen, and was harrassing perfectly law abiding hobbyists. That the heritage of 100 years of aero modelling was being swept into a hunt for all RC flyers.
Boils my blood just to mention what is going on here, but let's keep our heads about ourselves.

Also, change.org has a two places I have found to sign a petition against the FAA. We need a whole lot more people signing that, so that is an additional thing you can do - and start feeling like you are doing something about this.

Just over 1000 signees at the present moment - we need tens of thousands signing:
https://www.change.org/p/federal-avi...t-registration

A few hundred have signed:
https://www.change.org/p/faa-adminis...y-class-drones

I don't even own a "drone" and signed the second one, with the future in mind that I may get one within the next 12 months.


So, there are real ways you can feel better that you actually did something to resist the ruling.

Cheers - Peter
Old 12-18-2015, 02:23 AM
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Let me add this - why it is so important that you contact your rep.
Let them know when you call that the FAA is RIGHT NOW under reauthorization by the House Ways and Means Committee.

Here's an article:
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...orization-bill

It can make a big difference when you call that you mention this.
The idea was this round the House was not going to just rubber stamp the FAA budget, there are to be major inquiries into the FAA's justification of control and operations.

Please call your Rep and immediately feel better you used the tools at your disposal to do something about the FAA reg.
You can make a difference.
Old 12-18-2015, 02:58 AM
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The AMA must hate me. I don't get any emails from them.

Would it be possible for someone to post a link to the statement on delaying registration ?
Old 12-18-2015, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by TomCrump View Post
The AMA must hate me. I don't get any emails from them.

Would it be possible for someone to post a link to the statement on delaying registration ?
http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama...odel-aircraft/


Old 12-18-2015, 03:47 AM
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Thanks, Steve.
Old 12-18-2015, 04:19 AM
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Tom has been a bad Boy !!!! R/L
Old 12-18-2015, 05:09 AM
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Many years ago as a junior officer in a squadron, a Navy Flag taught me a critical lesson that I think applies to this announcement: "There are no problems that cannot be made worse."

As RCKen pointed out, the AMA is in some way thumbing their nose at the agency that regulates the medium in which we hope to operate. Consider this and ask yourself what happens if the FAA decides to escalate, and they formally deny the AMA's letter requesting recognition as a CBO? There would be some poetic justice in this from the FAA's standpoint. For with the stroke of a pen, the AMA's beloved section 336 language would immediately become golden handcuffs on the organization.

I think thumbing one's nose at the FAA is monumentally poor strategy. If administrative controls like registration fail or are not supported by non-commercial sUAS, then next to follow are operational controls. Things like no flight at all above 400' AGL, etc.
Old 12-18-2015, 05:49 AM
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RC Ken is correct , the wrong place to challenge tyranny is being on the loud end of the law's guns . The weird language of "owned before Dec 21" scares the Hell outta me cause I NEVER keep the receipts for my hobby purchases (after i assure their working status) and so how can I prove I owned my plane(s) before Dec 21 once it's January and some FAA guy wants to see my registration for such a "new" looking plane ? (ok , gotta admit , I'm kinda fanatical about the whole cleanliness thing and my planes all look pretty much new) .... So tell me , how many of you who keep your planes nice DO have receipts for them ? Good Grief a paper trail of all those receipts showing how much they cost could be a scary thing for a spouse to find , "You paid HOW much for that plane !?!?" , yep , gonna take some serious gold and maybe a diamond or two to get ya outta THAT mess ....

Anyway , I feel the AMA has only done half the job here , the rest being the removal of # 550 FPV . It's sad for the camera flyers but the bottom line here is that the FAA needs some means to distinguish model aircraft from drones . It's the ability to fly beyond line of sight that spooks the FAA and right now there is NO distinction between drones and model aircraft , AMA wise , cause # 550 FPV can fly BLOS any time the pilot chooses to do so .

I don't "Hate" drones nor their flyers ! I just don't believe they are model aircraft , they are tools to accomplish a mission other than just the flying itself . They have the ability to fly BLOS , we don't . There are enough differences between the flight modes that our model aircraft organization really has no place trying to incorporate them into our ranks , since they are NOT "models of aircraft" . And please , note my use of "aircraft" , I have no problem with your quad or octocopter if it's being flown LOS in the traditional model aircraft manner ! Just as I DO have a problem with your Multiplex Easystar outfitted with FPV gear going for a flight over your neighborhood , out of your direct line of sight , flying a drone MISSION in other words . Remember that word , mission , cause it's that , the mission of flying BLOS , that separates drones from model aircraft and not any physical attributes of the actual airframe itself . Got a camera or GPS ? to allow BLOS ? It's a drone . No equipment that could allow for BLOS ? It's a model aircraft .

I sure hope the AMA EC gets their heads on straight about this , eliminates any craft capable of BLOS from the ranks , and hunkers down to protect US who do fly "Model Aircraft" ! Till the BLOS ability is gone , I fear we have truly already lost as the FAA is not going to allow drone ops to be cloaked under the guise of being a model aircraft , and the AMA should have known better right from the start ......
Old 12-18-2015, 07:51 AM
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You have 30 days to register for free. I think it would be prudent to wait a bit and see what develops
Old 12-18-2015, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
Ok, anybody that has seen my posts in the "Useless AMA" thread knows that I try to stay as neutral as I can in all things that go in anything that goes on here on RCU, especially as controversial as these recent event concerning the FAA rulings. I said I was going to climb off my soapbox after my rant about the AMA's recent mailing about cheap auto insurance. But now I feel the need to pull the soapbox back out and dust it back off.

I see this mailing by the AMA and they are encouraging us (I stay short of calling it instructing us) to "hold off registering" under the FAA registration system that kicks in starting next Monday. Soooooooooo, let's get this straight now. The AMA now has the legal authority to overrule an agency of the Federal Government. Now please DO NOT get me wrong her that I like the new system of having to register my airplanes, because I hate the entire idea and I want it gone. But, come Monday the 21st it IS Federal regulation that can be backup up with penalties in Federal Courts. So the AMA can tell us to simply not do that. I know that this is going to be a scenario that probably will not happen, but let's play what if for a second. Let's say that I don't register as per the AMA's instructions, and then on January 1st I go out for my club's annual Chili Fly (we cook up pots of chili and go and and fly regardless of the weather). Lo and behold a Federal Officer shows up and wants to see my Federal Registration for me flying my airplanes and I tell him that "Oh, the AMA said I didn't have to do it". Wrong answer.... I get slammed. If you read down the documentation of the new regulation the max fines are up to $250,00 and up to 3 years on jail. So, if I were to get busted for flying without registering my planes is the AMA going to pay for my fines??? Is Bob Brown or Dave Mathewson going to go sit in a jail cell for me??

Once again the AMA has made a bad call. While I hate the FAA and I think that they made bad call by including Model Aircraft in with the drones, the AMA has made a worse call by telling it's membership to ignore Federal Regulations. I really am starting to wonder what is going on in Muncie and what they are thinking when they make these calls, because they really seem less and less like they have the best welfare of the membership in mind when they make calls like this. In fact, this current call to me just stinks more and more of the Executive Council trying to make themselves look good. They are trying to make themselves took like heros that "swooped" in to save us all. Well in my mind they are the part of the problem and not part of the solution, and following their advice to not register is just going to compound that problem. We really need to start voting these guys out of office, starting with Bob Brown.

Does anybody else see the same thing I am seeing here?? Or am I just being goofy??

Ok, Rant Mode off. Soapbox is back in the closet.

Ken
I don't know why you've said in this thread and others that you try to (or need to) be neutral. You're opinion on the AMA and AMA matters has been noted many times before, going back years in fact. I don't see any problem with it it though, you are an AMA member and a member of RCU, that shouldn't preclude you from having or sharing an opinion, your status as Admin Manager/Mod notwithstanding.

As for your interpretation of what the AMA has suggested, I don't believe your being goofy, but I do believe you've misinterpreted it. At no time have they indicated they are trying to exert legal authority over any Federal Governmental Agency. They suggested that people wait to register while they try to work through issues, after all, it's been 4 days since the rule was published. Clearly documented in the rule and FAQ, is the deadline for registration...2-19-16. There isn't going to be a federal officer showing up at any field let alone one on 1-1-16 as there would nothing to investigate nor hold anyone accountable for. The chances that they ever show up at any field is slim as well, but time will tell on that.

They've tried to communicate with the membership (which some have argued they haven't done enough of) that they are trying to work through the issues and will follow up accordingly. At no time have they said disregard what the FAA is saying and don't register at all. This feels like yet another situation where they will be criticized for doing something, or not doing something. At the end of the day, it's action...which is probably better than no action.

Right now, the only entity looking out for AMA members is the AMA. Like it or not, argue about what has happened in the past or not, or who we'll run out of office later, that's the reality. The right thing to do here I think for all of us, is to not demonize the AMA, not spread misinformation or give on in a million worst case scenarios on what might happen in the future, and focus on the here and now. What can we do as a group in a positive manner to effect change. Someone started a petition for comments to the FAA, great! Astro started the petition to the AMA, great.

Why not give the AMA the support they need now as they work through this? There will be plenty of time later clear out the whole slate of elected and non elected AMA officials and replace them (with who?).....but that has nothing to do with the here and now, and the immediate future. That's in my opinion of course.

Last edited by porcia83; 12-18-2015 at 08:36 AM.
Old 12-18-2015, 09:09 AM
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All well and good .....

BUT !

Till the AMA gives up the flying cameras that are 5 seconds away from being a drone at any given instant , I expect the FAA will continue on it's present course . The FAA wants to regulate drone operations . We (the AMA)have provided a safe haven for craft that are equipped for drone type operations . Till we loose the BLOS allowing equipment , "We is they" , FAA wise .

Anyone in the AMA EC listening ?
Old 12-18-2015, 09:14 AM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by DGrant View Post
Its all a train wreck. Nobody really knows what to do now.... nobody. I'm feeling a bit of the fun is being depleted from my past 40yrs of enjoying something safely, all for what??? For freakin what? I'm so mad I could spit... right at the arrogant fools that conjured this wad of crapola up. Someone's getting in my biz, and I surely don't like it.... I'm about ready to tell them all KMA... and just simply go fly my planes as I always have, and if I get put in the slammer.... so be it. I'll find the hungriest lawyer in the country and let them go at it. I honestly think in a court of law it would be laughed out. Totally.... what a wad of garbage this has become, just in the last few days.
That's actually a pretty apt description of this...a train wreck. I don't think anyone is happy with where we are right now, even the people at the FAA. Even for a govt agency, I just cannot fathom them wanting to deal with this issue now, given all the other priorities they must have. I would love to see all of the affected groups here, but primarily the AMA be able to litigate this issue, but the reality is it might be most costly and time demanding than it's worth (assuming the registration and 5 will be the sum total of changes, forever). Is it worth the probable millions it would cost, and the potential for maybe even more restrictive laws. Don't know..and as you note above, I don't think anyone does right now.
Old 12-18-2015, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
I don't know why you've said in this thread and others that you try to (or need to) be neutral. You're opinion on the AMA and AMA matters has been noted many times before, going back years in fact. I don't see any problem with it it though, you are an AMA member and a member of RCU, that shouldn't preclude you from having or sharing an opinion, your status as Admin Manager/Mod notwithstanding.
Unfortunately I don't think that you DO known my opinion on the AMA, although you may think you know my opinions on the AMA. And yes, I do need to try to remain neutral here on RCU. Because of what I do with Moderating the AMA Forum on RCU I have remained neutral with my comments about the AMA here on RCU. Many years ago when I was just a moderator and I only moderated 2 forums the AMA forum was such a mess the Admins of RCU were ready to close it down because it was so out of control. I volunteered to take it over and clean it up. Part of cleaning it up was that I vowed to not participate in any discussions about the AMA in that forum, or elsewhere on RCU, so that I could remain neutral in any moderation that I needed to take, this was part of the problem with the old moderator in that he was moderating the forum to back his viewpoints. I vowed to never do that. And I will not do that ever. This is why I never have discussed AMA issues on RCU. You can go back through my posting all the way back to the time I took over the AMA forum and you will not find me ever posting anything about any AMA issue, EVER. Until now. I am posting now because of the importance of this issue and and how I feel about what is happening to us as a group as hobbyists. As far as how I feel about the AMA?? Well, I have been the President of an AMA sanctioned club for 9 years, but I just stepped down last month to take some time off. And as for the AMA forum, it is my goal that any thread posted that remain in the thread whenever possible because I believe that any topic about the AMA should be discussed. I have removed threads in the past yes, but only after I have done everything I can to keep it alive and going. I feel that anything dealing with the AMA is important and deserves to be discussed, that is why I took over the Forum and why I spend so much time keeping it running. I also have a very good relationship with the Executive Director at the AMA. This has come in handy many times when something comes up on RCU and I can call him and get the "poop" on what's really going on with what's being discussed. So I've always been very supportive of the AMA, so please do not try in any way to portray me as having been anti-AMA in the past. However, that doesn't mean that I don't feel that the AMA has supported us in this matter. I totally feel that the AMA has let us down and thrown us under the bus.

So, I hope this answers your questions about my neutrality, my feelings about the AMA, where I currently stand, and why I don't normally post things about the AMA.

Thank you for asking.

Ken
Old 12-18-2015, 10:59 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
Ok, anybody that has seen my posts in the "Useless AMA" thread knows that I try to stay as neutral as I can in all things that go in anything that goes on here on RCU, especially as controversial as these recent event concerning the FAA rulings. I said I was going to climb off my soapbox after my rant about the AMA's recent mailing about cheap auto insurance. But now I feel the need to pull the soapbox back out and dust it back off.

I see this mailing by the AMA and they are encouraging us (I stay short of calling it instructing us) to "hold off registering" under the FAA registration system that kicks in starting next Monday. Soooooooooo, let's get this straight now. The AMA now has the legal authority to overrule an agency of the Federal Government. Now please DO NOT get me wrong her that I like the new system of having to register my airplanes, because I hate the entire idea and I want it gone. But, come Monday the 21st it IS Federal regulation that can be backup up with penalties in Federal Courts. So the AMA can tell us to simply not do that. I know that this is going to be a scenario that probably will not happen, but let's play what if for a second. Let's say that I don't register as per the AMA's instructions, and then on January 1st I go out for my club's annual Chili Fly (we cook up pots of chili and go and and fly regardless of the weather). Lo and behold a Federal Officer shows up and wants to see my Federal Registration for me flying my airplanes and I tell him that "Oh, the AMA said I didn't have to do it". Wrong answer.... I get slammed. If you read down the documentation of the new regulation the max fines are up to $250,00 and up to 3 years on jail. So, if I were to get busted for flying without registering my planes is the AMA going to pay for my fines??? Is Bob Brown or Dave Mathewson going to go sit in a jail cell for me??

Once again the AMA has made a bad call. While I hate the FAA and I think that they made bad call by including Model Aircraft in with the drones, the AMA has made a worse call by telling it's membership to ignore Federal Regulations. I really am starting to wonder what is going on in Muncie and what they are thinking when they make these calls, because they really seem less and less like they have the best welfare of the membership in mind when they make calls like this. In fact, this current call to me just stinks more and more of the Executive Council trying to make themselves look good. They are trying to make themselves took like heros that "swooped" in to save us all. Well in my mind they are the part of the problem and not part of the solution, and following their advice to not register is just going to compound that problem. We really need to start voting these guys out of office, starting with Bob Brown.

Does anybody else see the same thing I am seeing here?? Or am I just being goofy??

Ok, Rant Mode off. Soapbox is back in the closet.

Ken
The FAA does not demand that you register on the 21st. You have as much time as you need but after the deadline you will not be able to legally fly your plane without a registration. It's not a deadline for registration, its the date you cannot fly without the registration. The AMA is asking not telling you to wait a while, so that they may be able to sort this out.
Old 12-18-2015, 11:53 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
The FAA does not demand that you register on the 21st. You have as much time as you need but after the deadline you will not be able to legally fly your plane without a registration. It's not a deadline for registration, its the date you cannot fly without the registration. The AMA is asking not telling you to wait a while, so that they may be able to sort this out.
I understand exactly what the AMA is "asking" to do. However, the AMA has had their chance to "sort" this out as they have been involved with the entire FAA process from start to finish. If you were to go in and pull the minutes for all of the meetings held by the FAA concerning this issue you will see that the AMA had representation a those meetings. So why now is the AMA having to sort things out?? My opinion? The AMA has been telling the FAA that drones are the same as model aviation and should be covered by their Community Based Organization (CBO) and that the AMA could police them as per the 2012 FAA Modernization Law that exempted model aviation if they belonged to a CBO. So when the ruling came down the FAA then said that all model aviation (including model airplanes and helicopters) are now covered by the new laws and now have to register. This wasn't what the AMA had planned on. Now they want us to all hold off so that they can "fix it"? Like I said, they have been involved in this from day one so they have had plenty of time to figure out what to do.

I know what the deadline for me to register is. For anything that I have already owned is going to have to be registered by February 19th, 2016. But anything that is purchased new must be registered before it's flown. Yes, I know that's screwy government logic but that's what the new FFA regs say. How I am supposed to prove my old planes are exactly that I don't know. Maybe just show pictures of them to prove I've had them for years. However, the AMA advising members to ignore their members to ignore the registration deadlines is reckless in my opinion. They want more them to work. I feel they have had their time to work and it backfired on them. I'm not trying to be negative about the AMA because I'm not against the AMA (please see above), but I think on this issue here the AMA has truly screwed the pooch.

Ken
Old 12-18-2015, 12:04 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
I understand exactly what the AMA is "asking" to do. However, the AMA has had their chance to "sort" this out as they have been involved with the entire FAA process from start to finish. If you were to go in and pull the minutes for all of the meetings held by the FAA concerning this issue you will see that the AMA had representation a those meetings. So why now is the AMA having to sort things out?? My opinion? The AMA has been telling the FAA that drones are the same as model aviation and should be covered by their Community Based Organization (CBO) and that the AMA could police them as per the 2012 FAA Modernization Law that exempted model aviation if they belonged to a CBO. So when the ruling came down the FAA then said that all model aviation (including model airplanes and helicopters) are now covered by the new laws and now have to register. This wasn't what the AMA had planned on. Now they want us to all hold off so that they can "fix it"? Like I said, they have been involved in this from day one so they have had plenty of time to figure out what to do.

I know what the deadline for me to register is. For anything that I have already owned is going to have to be registered by February 19th, 2016. But anything that is purchased new must be registered before it's flown. Yes, I know that's screwy government logic but that's what the new FFA regs say. How I am supposed to prove my old planes are exactly that I don't know. Maybe just show pictures of them to prove I've had them for years. However, the AMA advising members to ignore their members to ignore the registration deadlines is reckless in my opinion. They want more them to work. I feel they have had their time to work and it backfired on them. I'm not trying to be negative about the AMA because I'm not against the AMA (please see above), but I think on this issue here the AMA has truly screwed the pooch.

Ken
Where are the minutes available?
Old 12-18-2015, 01:58 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by TLH101 View Post
You can fly on Jan 1 without any issue: http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
Q34. When must UAS owners who purchased their aircraft before December 21, 2015 register?
A. UAS operated by the current owner prior to December 21, 2015, must be registered no later than February 19, 2016. For all other UAS, registration is required prior to operation.
So what about the planes my loving wife is going to give me for Christmas? They have to be registered before the first flight.

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