POLICING has Already Started
12-26-2015, 12:07 PM
#51
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Ok not to changed the subject but if the police comes up to and asked to see you registration and you present your AMA card and number. Show you have your aircraft marked per AMA regulations ...
What happens then....I know the enforcement deadline is not until February 2016
What happens then....I know the enforcement deadline is not until February 2016
12-26-2015, 12:12 PM
#52
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This is exactly the kind of thing me and many others predicted would happen once the FAA set it's sights on the "drone" industry. Anyone who thought this was going to be a reasonable or common sense set of regulations by a federal bureaucracy has not been paying attention for the last 25+ years.
I'll make another prediction right now that this is only the beginning of the federal governments meddling with respect to model aircraft, not to mention UAVs.
I'll make another prediction right now that this is only the beginning of the federal governments meddling with respect to model aircraft, not to mention UAVs.
12-26-2015, 12:15 PM
#53
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There were discussions to actually continue that flying as well as open up more areas, but legal action taken by the AMA last week may have put that on hold, and yes, it sucks. I look at it this way, at least they were trying to do something. If they (the AMA) did nothing they would be hammered, and changes are they will be hammered again for moving forward in a more aggressive manner.
12-26-2015, 12:29 PM
#54
Well, we don't know what the op was flying but I'll assume it was a heli or mr and he has been flying there for 8 years. Did he just buy it on the 22'nd or has he had it for years? Who knows ?
Either way the leo was out of bounds coming up and asking him for his paperwork, again, unless he was breaking a law. Rereading his post it appears he was not.
Either way the leo was out of bounds coming up and asking him for his paperwork, again, unless he was breaking a law. Rereading his post it appears he was not.
12-26-2015, 01:11 PM
#55
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Don't believe his story. The police just don't have time for this. The model world may be making a big deal with this, but to most of the world we are just playing with big boy toys.
12-26-2015, 01:18 PM
#56
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It took the OP of that story a little while to come clean in the thread, of course he didn't tell the whole story right away, it wouldn't have garnered the attention it did. After being called out by his fellow board members he admitted he was not only flying on school property, he was doing so while school was in session. The LE officer had every right in the world to investigate, and the OP in that story was fully compliant with the questioning because he knew he had no absolute "right" to be doing what he was doing.
12-26-2015, 01:34 PM
#57
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Not sure if I believe the OP or not, but as far as I know, cops cannot demand ID unless they have probable cause that you have committed a crime, or will commit a crime. If cops are going to demand the FAA registration AND ID just because you are flying, let the lawsuits begin. Once they have your ID, they will run you in hopes that they can find something to arrest you for. (for dozens and dozens of examples, just visit YouTube...and those are just the ones that were caught on tape) That is absolutely against your constitutional rights, i.e. Nazi Germany.
12-26-2015, 01:38 PM
#58
I fly on a dry lake bed that is owned both privately and the Department of Natural Resources of the state of California. The portion of the lake that I fly on is privately owned and I have permission to use this property from the owner. The DNR does patrol their portion of the lake and at numerous times I have been reminded by them to stay off their property. I wonder with this new ruling going into effect will they take action if I violate their airspace?
12-26-2015, 01:42 PM
#59
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Not sure if I believe the OP or not, but as far as I know, cops cannot demand ID unless they have probable cause that you have committed a crime, or will commit a crime. If cops are going to demand the FAA registration AND ID just because you are flying, let the lawsuits begin. Once they have your ID, they will run you in hopes that they can find something to arrest you for. (for dozens and dozens of examples, just visit YouTube...and those are just the ones that were caught on tape) That is absolutely against your constitutional rights, i.e. Nazi Germany.
12-26-2015, 04:07 PM
#60
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12-26-2015, 06:20 PM
#62
No mention of altitude in there. Just not being safe.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/law_enforcem...dance_card.pdf
and
https://www.faa.gov/uas/law_enforcem...ement-FAQs.pdf
https://www.faa.gov/uas/law_enforcem...dance_card.pdf
and
https://www.faa.gov/uas/law_enforcem...ement-FAQs.pdf
12-26-2015, 06:36 PM
#63
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Lets be honest, lots of folks have been predicting the worst of the worst, and then when something even remotely happens of a similar nature they are the first to say see..told ya so. The first "hard" look at this issue was as a result of fixed wing jets being possibly used to carry in explosives, remember the F-4 and F-86? Odd how that's never brought up in the discssion of "drones" ruining hte hobby. The reality is everything within that area was being looked at in terms of being a safety thread...everything and anything that could make it into that area, not just drones. It's pretty disingenuous (and convenient of course) to lay this at the feet of the "drones". The govt has been involved in our hobby for many years, and will continue to be. How the fact that the times and more importantly the technology has changed and is not part of these discussions is amazing. I know it doesn't fit the narrative of "drones bad", but c'mon.
I suppose my biggest point is that many people were complaining about drones and saying that we needed to stop them, As soon as the FAA even began to look at this, I predicted that they would throw "model aircraft", a legally defined term, into the same class as Unmanned Arial Vehicles (another legally defined term), as far as the registration requirement, they seem to have done exactly that, and I'll stand by my prediction that this is only the beginning.
Last edited by HunkaJunk; 12-26-2015 at 06:44 PM.
12-26-2015, 07:03 PM
#64
Banned
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I disagree, It's not model aircraft (as they are legally defined) that are reportedly getting into close calls with full scale aircraft, It's not model aircraft that prevented or delayed slurry bombers in CA, it was not a model aircraft that fell into a sports stadium full of people. These high profile cases were caused by drones (defined as a UAV). I'm sure there has been more than one knucklehead get into trouble with a model aircraft over the years, but now that anyone can walk in and buy a functional UAV, it lit us up like a neon sign.
I suppose my biggest point is that many people were complaining about drones and saying that we needed to stop them, As soon as the FAA even began to look at this, I predicted that they would throw "model aircraft", a legally defined term, into the same class as Unmanned Arial Vehicles (another legally defined term), as far as the registration requirement, they seem to have done exactly that, and I'll stand by my prediction that this is only the beginning.
I suppose my biggest point is that many people were complaining about drones and saying that we needed to stop them, As soon as the FAA even began to look at this, I predicted that they would throw "model aircraft", a legally defined term, into the same class as Unmanned Arial Vehicles (another legally defined term), as far as the registration requirement, they seem to have done exactly that, and I'll stand by my prediction that this is only the beginning.
Without a doubt the technology has forced the issue to a head right now. I've posted videos in the past of fixed wing aircraft in excess of 9,000 feet which didn't seem to garner much concern now or then, in part because of apathy, or because it was a foamy, who knows. I've always thought that was as much a risk as a DJI at 1000 feet. The media has eaten up the Drone hype, lets face it they can be both amazing and amazingly dangerous at the same time, so it make for great copy for them to exploit.
Speaking of things getting lumped into one category, I think it's unfair for those that advocate for the "banning" or lack of recognition on behalf of AMA I guess, that multi rotors and drones are seen as one in the same. They absolutely can be distinct and different.
Anyway, I may be a sheeple, or a enlightened progressive, or just naive but I hope that your prediction is wrong. Not as a persona attack on your opinion, rather as hope that this is it. I can't say that I would be shocked to see more involvement later on, this technology continues to expand exponentially. Just as social media issues gripped school administrators when dealing with bullying, or any other advance in technology, sometimes it takes a while for laws/rules to catch up. I'm not sure the govt has the time, nor the ability to be as nuanced as we would have liked them to have been with us. At this point the registration is where we at, hopefully that's it.
Happy Holidays, what's left of 'em!
Hi Hu
12-26-2015, 08:43 PM
#65
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Well,, I guess all the people who argue that "They can't do that" are WRONG... hahahaha.. its gonna get worse guys...mark my words.. just because you aint seen it yet, don't mean it aint gonna happen... There are a ton of idiots who fly these, that are getting them in harms way,,, when you do that.. the government makes laws...That's the way it is.. Is the sky falling???..........I think so... to about 400ft. Whats next...200?? How many of us are gonna follow the law then??... I love to take pics at 800 to a 1000ft... its fun...BUT,,,,,,,,,,,, I dont fly into fires where aircraft is try'n to put out the fire.... but the idiots who have, have screwed it up for the rest of us....JUST LIKE gun control.... hate to bring it up,,,but damnit,,,,,how many laws are on the books about that?....holy hell!!... Is the sky falling,,, YUP...
12-27-2015, 03:58 AM
#66
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Hi Hunka,
Without a doubt the technology has forced the issue to a head right now. I've posted videos in the past of fixed wing aircraft in excess of 9,000 feet which didn't seem to garner much concern now or then, in part because of apathy, or because it was a foamy, who knows. I've always thought that was as much a risk as a DJI at 1000 feet. The media has eaten up the Drone hype, lets face it they can be both amazing and amazingly dangerous at the same time, so it make for great copy for them to exploit.
Speaking of things getting lumped into one category, I think it's unfair for those that advocate for the "banning" or lack of recognition on behalf of AMA I guess, that multi rotors and drones are seen as one in the same. They absolutely can be distinct and different.
Anyway, I may be a sheeple, or a enlightened progressive, or just naive but I hope that your prediction is wrong. Not as a persona attack on your opinion, rather as hope that this is it. I can't say that I would be shocked to see more involvement later on, this technology continues to expand exponentially. Just as social media issues gripped school administrators when dealing with bullying, or any other advance in technology, sometimes it takes a while for laws/rules to catch up. I'm not sure the govt has the time, nor the ability to be as nuanced as we would have liked them to have been with us. At this point the registration is where we at, hopefully that's it.
Happy Holidays, what's left of 'em!
Hi Hu
Without a doubt the technology has forced the issue to a head right now. I've posted videos in the past of fixed wing aircraft in excess of 9,000 feet which didn't seem to garner much concern now or then, in part because of apathy, or because it was a foamy, who knows. I've always thought that was as much a risk as a DJI at 1000 feet. The media has eaten up the Drone hype, lets face it they can be both amazing and amazingly dangerous at the same time, so it make for great copy for them to exploit.
Speaking of things getting lumped into one category, I think it's unfair for those that advocate for the "banning" or lack of recognition on behalf of AMA I guess, that multi rotors and drones are seen as one in the same. They absolutely can be distinct and different.
Anyway, I may be a sheeple, or a enlightened progressive, or just naive but I hope that your prediction is wrong. Not as a persona attack on your opinion, rather as hope that this is it. I can't say that I would be shocked to see more involvement later on, this technology continues to expand exponentially. Just as social media issues gripped school administrators when dealing with bullying, or any other advance in technology, sometimes it takes a while for laws/rules to catch up. I'm not sure the govt has the time, nor the ability to be as nuanced as we would have liked them to have been with us. At this point the registration is where we at, hopefully that's it.
Happy Holidays, what's left of 'em!
Hi Hu
12-27-2015, 05:40 AM
#67
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Perhaps the officer thought you were flying a full-sized aircraft. If the FAA is behind all this nonsense, then they'll assume their rules are in force. That is, if you fly full-size aircraft and have a pilot's license, then you may be stopped for a "ramp check" at any time or place and you MUST provide any law enforcement officer identification information and any other thing he may ask for.
You folks are correct that this is not going to get better any time soon if the FAA thinks it can get away with this.
And one other thing that's been gnawing at me. Let's suppose you're an idiot, but a law abiding one. You've done your registration and glued the number on you 6 rotor drone. You now fly the thing into the path of a modest-sized jet airliner and the drone gets sucked up into one of the engines, shreds the engine innards, and your drone and the engine works get spit out and flutter to the ground. What are the chances that anybody is going to be able to find that little piece of label material with your number on it and identify you as the culprit?
You folks are correct that this is not going to get better any time soon if the FAA thinks it can get away with this.
And one other thing that's been gnawing at me. Let's suppose you're an idiot, but a law abiding one. You've done your registration and glued the number on you 6 rotor drone. You now fly the thing into the path of a modest-sized jet airliner and the drone gets sucked up into one of the engines, shreds the engine innards, and your drone and the engine works get spit out and flutter to the ground. What are the chances that anybody is going to be able to find that little piece of label material with your number on it and identify you as the culprit?
12-27-2015, 07:26 AM
#68
Thanks and I can see your view. I am sure we will see this tested in due course.
If I was driving on the highway with no registration plates on the car would that give the leo a valid reason to pull me over and ask for my licence?
They might use the same reasoning after 19th Feb if the registration number is not clearly visible on an aircraft.
If I was driving on the highway with no registration plates on the car would that give the leo a valid reason to pull me over and ask for my licence?
They might use the same reasoning after 19th Feb if the registration number is not clearly visible on an aircraft.
12-27-2015, 07:37 AM
#69
Well again,, yes and no,, DUI check points pull you over for no reason,, and have been ruled constitutional as long as they stop everyone who comes by and don't "select" those to pull over,, so as long as the police check everyone,, yes they can stop you without cause.
12-27-2015, 07:47 AM
#70
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I have read a few posts here from some stressing their rights, some are way off track.........
There is an old saying, "Someone acting as his own Attorney has a FOOL for a client", some of the posts show that mentality. As an Officer(long retired) I have had folks display what they thought was their rights and act as OBAMA put it "Stupidly".
thus earning the right to visit the judge (who told them they acted stupidly) . Had they been decent they would gotten off a with minor warning as usually the infraction was really minor and not worth a lot of time.
I found it refreshing when a violator admitted they were at fault and were decent. An officer usually will cut someone like that a break.........
There is an old saying, "Someone acting as his own Attorney has a FOOL for a client", some of the posts show that mentality. As an Officer(long retired) I have had folks display what they thought was their rights and act as OBAMA put it "Stupidly".
thus earning the right to visit the judge (who told them they acted stupidly) . Had they been decent they would gotten off a with minor warning as usually the infraction was really minor and not worth a lot of time.
I found it refreshing when a violator admitted they were at fault and were decent. An officer usually will cut someone like that a break.........
12-27-2015, 08:02 AM
#71
Well again,, yes and no,, DUI check points pull you over for no reason,, and have been ruled constitutional as long as they stop everyone who comes by and don't "select" those to pull over,, so as long as the police check everyone,, yes they can stop you without cause.
12-27-2015, 08:11 AM
#72
Banned
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Brilliant. So if someone is flying a 700 size heli in a grade school playground while school is in session, they should feel free to exercise their Constitutional freedoms eh? Better yet they pull into a mall parking lot and throw the DJI up for some great views, hey, they got rights! More internet lawyering without reality or common sense. Ya, I love all those videos online of people looking for conflict with LE, wanting to "test" them. Most end up ranting like lunatics as they are cuffed and put into the back of a cruiser and driven away. Sure, some might end with up no charges, or the charges are dropped to a lower level, but hey....they got to show everyone about their "rights". All the keyboard Johnny Chochrans are going to pucker right up and be the first to say yes sir, here's my papers sir, have a nice day sir.
12-27-2015, 08:17 AM
#73
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I have read a few posts here from some stressing their rights, some are way off track.........
There is an old saying, "Someone acting as his own Attorney has a FOOL for a client", some of the posts show that mentality. As an Officer(long retired) I have had folks display what they thought was their rights and act as OBAMA put it "Stupidly".
thus earning the right to visit the judge (who told them they acted stupidly) . Had they been decent they would gotten off a with minor warning as usually the infraction was really minor and not worth a lot of time.
I found it refreshing when a violator admitted they were at fault and were decent. An officer usually will cut someone like that a break.........
There is an old saying, "Someone acting as his own Attorney has a FOOL for a client", some of the posts show that mentality. As an Officer(long retired) I have had folks display what they thought was their rights and act as OBAMA put it "Stupidly".
thus earning the right to visit the judge (who told them they acted stupidly) . Had they been decent they would gotten off a with minor warning as usually the infraction was really minor and not worth a lot of time.
I found it refreshing when a violator admitted they were at fault and were decent. An officer usually will cut someone like that a break.........
12-27-2015, 08:36 AM
#74
I have read a few posts here from some stressing their rights, some are way off track.........
There is an old saying, "Someone acting as his own Attorney has a FOOL for a client", some of the posts show that mentality. As an Officer(long retired) I have had folks display what they thought was their rights and act as OBAMA put it "Stupidly".
thus earning the right to visit the judge (who told them they acted stupidly) . Had they been decent they would gotten off a with minor warning as usually the infraction was really minor and not worth a lot of time.
I found it refreshing when a violator admitted they were at fault and were decent. An officer usually will cut someone like that a break.........
There is an old saying, "Someone acting as his own Attorney has a FOOL for a client", some of the posts show that mentality. As an Officer(long retired) I have had folks display what they thought was their rights and act as OBAMA put it "Stupidly".
thus earning the right to visit the judge (who told them they acted stupidly) . Had they been decent they would gotten off a with minor warning as usually the infraction was really minor and not worth a lot of time.
I found it refreshing when a violator admitted they were at fault and were decent. An officer usually will cut someone like that a break.........
I'm sure you are aware of leo's pushing the boundaries of citizen's rights and if the public just go along with it then good for the leo and more money for the municipality/state.
Know what your rights are and stand up for them ....if you want.
12-27-2015, 08:45 AM
#75
Thanks to one judge on the supreme court he gave law enforcement probable cause. You are now assumed guilty until proven innocent But you still have rights at these stops ....if you want to use them. I don't think anyone should drive, fly or fly rc while under the influence. If someone is flying rc with a beer helmet on or a joint stuck in their mouth then by all means tell them to land ,test and/or arrest them but don't come up to someone and ask for their papers if they are not breaking a law.