Zel

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Gary,

Zel Ritchie here. (Space Control!)

I ran across your post and I would like to hear from you! You mentioned that you had a Space Control System.

You also mentioned that I came to your field to show what the Space Control could do.

You didn't say where that was, or when.

You mentioned the fact that nobody was interested in helping to train new comers and that you had a Space Control System and had been looked down on by all of those reed flyers. I fully understand!

I was always willing to work with anyone, with the limited time I had, who was interested on RC and especially "Proportional Control".

If I didn't show you the proper courtesy that you expected, and deserved, I apologize!

I have been retired from RC Modeling since the late 60's so I have been out of touch as to what is going on in the RC world today.

I have only had occasional glimpses of some of the new equipment and planes.

But I am currently working with Ed Crotty, who is putting together a Museum of Radio Control equipment, and he is doing a history of the Space Control System. We would really like to hear from you, or anyone else you may know, who has any experience with the Space Control System!

Do you still have any of your Space Control System?

We would really like to hear from you and your experiences, good, bad or otherwise!

If you get this and have the time I would greatly appreciate a response, either through this forum or you can email me directly at: [email protected] or you can call me at 714-373-9197.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Sincerely

Zel Ritchie
Space Control
[email protected]
714-373-9197

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

Just my 2 cents worth here, for whatever it is worth. I have been into RC building and flying since 1972, and have hung out at several different fields. I have never met anyone at any of the fields who was downright rude. I have met some who were stand-offish and very taciturn even after many meetings, but most of them were quite amiable if not outright friendly. I was also very heavy into automobile racing at a younger age. If you guys want to meet some really unfriendly folks, go race automobiles. Most of the guys will be friendly, but you will find some who are actually surly. The point here is that the RC folks seem to be a rather more polished cross section of people than are the folks in some other activities that you might get into. Just my own personal experiences.

bob36

My Feedback: (3)

I belong to a great club, we will talk to anybody that comes to the field, unless you just set in your car and do not get out. At every club meeting the first thing on the agenda is to ask if there are any visistor's and asked to introduce them selves and in turn the club members introduce them selves. Than the visitor's are aked if they want to join the club if so than they are voteded in, I do not know of any one being turned down.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I've been fortunate to belong too 2 very good clubs.

1st club was in Denver. Arvada Associated Modelers. 450+ of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. They talk about this exact subject at club meetings. Not to say that an entire meeting is dedicated to being friendly. Just a quick word to remind everyone that if you see a newbie or a spectator--SOMEONE go over and talk to them. Be friendly and invite them in.

My self and probably 50 or 60 other club members took it upon ourselves to always be quick to approach spectators and newbies. It takes almost no effort to smile at someone and anwser a few "silly" questions.

If we saw a new guy with a new plane show up--he'd be immediately surrounded by 3 or 4 experienced club members offering him all the help he could stand.[sm=drowning.gif] We'd help him tune and break in his motor. We'd get out the buddy boxes and the voltage checkers. Newbies don't always have a lot of tools or accesories. We'd double check his plane and everyone would scrounge up something to fix it or repair it if need be. A little loctite here and a wheel collar there--ready to go. "Somebody grab a starter and let's put this baby up for the maiden. Who wants to do the maiden flight for him?"

I don't think--in 7yrs at that club--that we EVER turned anyone off from flying because of our attitudes. Those guys are just too darn nice.

2nd club. Pueblo Sky Corral. I'm new at this club--so I don't know everyone. There's a few bad apples who have egos bigger than your SUV--but they generally stay away from newbies. And thats a good thing. I have seen other members approach spectators and talk with them. Invite them into the pits to look at planes. I've done the same.

I'll help ANYBODY who shows an interest in airplanes. I don't care if the guy if flying a .20 size trainer or an electric mini. If he needs help--I'll be the first guy to step up and offer help or supplies.

It just doesn't make sense to act like a jerk-off to a prospective new member. It's hard enough to get fields and maintain them. We don't need to discourage new members by being toads to them.

Of course, there are guys who show up with new planes that just have the social skills of a badger. You just try and bite your tongue and help him out as best you can. Some guys are just nervous when they show up for the first time--and they don't know how to handle it. So, their personality may seam harsh or unfriendly. It's only natural to be nervous. But, we all handle it different ways.

the troll

great post and awesome attitude[sm=thumbup.gif]

Rodney

I've been to lots of clubs in Missouri, Ohio, California and now Florida and was welcomed at all of them. Many times I benefited from advice and just general pleasantness. True, there are usually a few members more standoffish if that is a term but most are very helpful and friendly. Depends a lot on the attitude of the newcommer.

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

Well, Its just the "good ol boys" attitude you get some places. If you aint one of them, they dont want to have anything to do with you. They hate electrics, they think that the only "REAL" plane is a glow/nitro/gas plane, and all electric flyers are just irresponible kids. Im 30 years old, and I still see this garbage everyday.

Problem is these older pilots cant pull their heads out of the dirt long enough to realize that electrics are here to stay, and electric pilots are gonna OWN their field and their club one day. Its going to happen. As more an more of the neighbors complain about noise, electrics are going to take over. Even the top flyers are converting with open arms to electric flight, and enjoying the new freedoms it offers.

They can either get on board and ride the train to model aviation's future, or they can sit there on their logs preaching "electrics suck", and eventually pass on, never contributing a thing to the future because they turned away new members, kept all the building secrets, and didnt pass on any training, skills, or help to new pilots.

Well I say good riddens, and dont let the door hit you on the way out.

Had you showed up with a gas/glow plane, they would have tryed to help you join the AMA and been real friendly.

If your ever in the Pensacola Area with your electrics. PM me, and Ill show you how real pilots treat new flyers. We've got a great group of guys here that love the electrics, and welcome new pilots with open arms. Come join us at Pine Forest High School on Thursday nights 8pm- till we run out of batteries or we get the munchies for waffle house.

bhole74

I was just invited to one of the area clubs chili feed and night flys. That's twice in 4 months, 2 different clubs, and I'm not a member at either. Good people around here.

Tommygun

My Feedback: (2)

I think a lot of times these clubs are made up of older guys who've been flying there together for years. And if you were on the inside of that circle, maybe it would seem difficult to embrace change and the newcomers who bring it. I've experienced pretty much the same attitude with the surly old codgers at every AMA field I've tried flying at, and that's why I remain a renagade flyer after being involved with the hobby for 20+ years. Probably the nicest group of guys I've ever met were a group of renagades. The same people would show up at the same place, every weekend and just fly. No politics or arguing about inane policies. We'd just fly- it was great. A brand new guy would show up with an ARF, and someone was always willing to help them them. But I'm not saying all clubs are bad or that all renagade fields are great. This is just what I've experienced.

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

It's funny that after flying with the same bunch of individuals for over ten years I'm just being noticed. I was never was accepted by this group until my flying skills exceeded theirs. Now I'm starting to fly helicopters and they are calling me a traitor.

jettstarblue

You should post this over at the "Do we need a seperate forum for outlaws and park flyers?"
Everyone there is argueing, but I don't think most are getting what you said here and that's the real issue....

Stickbuilder

Okay, Here's my two cent's worth...I think that the reason that you may not feel welcome with your, "penny bow and farthing shafts" is simple. Most of we older Radio Control model airplane hobbyists realize that there is more to flying than just flying. Let me rephrase that,

THERE IS MORE TO FLYING THAN JUST FLYING".

By this, I mean, if all you fly is ARF and RTF, you learn nothing about the mechanics of what makes a model a viable flying machine. What have you learned about incidences? What have you learned about why a particular setup requires more engine offset, or reduced or increased downthrust? What (if anything) have you learned concerning Reynolds numbers and how they relate to models, or even at what scale they come into play? What have you learned concerning wing loading? The list goes on, and on, and on.

It would appear that we, "OLD FARTS" do not hold any patents on snobbery. (judging from the posts from the Gentleman from the Netherlands) With all the references to the mess on the models after flying.

I believe that this is a needed forum to enable the air to be cleared to some degree. No, we will never bring everyone's opinions to a consensus, nor should we even try. Those who choose to fly RTF, or ARF will always attempt to justify their actions. The same will apply to those who fly electric versus internal combustion, and the same for those of us who learned to scratch build, build from plans, or build from kits.

"Can't we all just get along"? The answer to this is a resounding NO!!! We are human (at least most of us)(I think) and as long as someone does something different from the way that we learned or learned to preceive anything, then there will be dissention.

So, if you fly something different, go and mingle with your own kind. Do not expect those of us who have become, "Set in our ways" to change for you. Do not expect us to welcome you, and do not expect us to have anything to do with you. That is natures law. Have you ever witnessed a small group of birds chasing another kind of bird away from their area? They are different, that is all.

Go and mingle with your own kind. Yes, you electric flyers will end up inheriting the field. We are mortal, and will eventually die off. When we do, you can do it your way...until something new comes along, whereby, and whereupon you will have become the old farts.
You still will not know what we (the builders) have learned. You will simply be the Model airplane drivers.

That's my opinion (Oughta be yours) [8D]

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Youre complaining about people not learning anything from flying ARF/RTF. But my question is "Do we have to?". Do you know what makes your car run? Do you NEED to know what makes it tick if you want to drive it? No! Just hop in and drive it. If an ARF craps up and crashes, we (the ARFers) just pick up the good pieces and order up a new one. You guys have to mess around all winter to get a few planes ready, and when one goes down, it REALLY hurts, because that plane took 200 hours to get done. We just crack open another box, slap one together in a saturday afternoon, and were happily flying the next day. The factory took care of all those annoying calculations, and we get all the fun. I personally cant be bothered with all that senior science stuff, Id rather have some smart chinese people figure it out and put it in a box.

To put it a little crude, we dont hunt mammoths anymore, we now have a nice company fetch them for us.

And people that are singleminded on what you should fly and what not, are fine by me, but when those people are the head of a club, youre royally screwed if your taste happens to be different. I got SENT AWAY because I said I wanted to fly electrics as a beginner! Simply because he was of the opinion that I should buy a filthy, fragile and expencive 4-stroke trainer. He refused to let me on the club to learn with electrics. [:@] So some people can be quite stubborn about "theire ways". Basicly he said convert to my beliefs or shove off. And shove off I did....

Also, I will ALWAYS follow the newest things. I wont be the one at the field nagging at brushless flyers about the good old brushed time and how everything supposedly used to be better and that we where the hardcore flyers who know everything.... Sounds formilior, doesnt it.....

Stickbuilder

All in good time, my man, All in good time. When you and yours inherit the field, you can do it the way you want. Until that time, I suppose that you will have to go with the flow. Otherwise, you will continue to be miserable. By the way, I am not complaining about anything. I am simply relating my perspective.

There is much to be learned from this hobby, and you can either learn or ignore what you wish. That is the difference. What you call, "Annoying calculations", are what has enabeled you and those of your mindset to be able to enjoy the pure flying part of this hobby. You can bet your European Butt that the guys in the factory that are building these things have no idea what is really going on. They are simply placing tab "A" into slot "B".

If you do not care how we arrived at what works and what does not, then so be it. I personally do not care. Consider this; What do you do when it (the system) finally breaks down and none of the models actually fly well any longer? Think that this is a stretch? Suppose that we (the old Farts who actually developed the excellent flying models and the geometry that enables you to take a new one out of the box today and fly it tomorrow had never done the, "Grunt work". What would you be doing for grins? I will promise you that it would not involve flying Radio Control Model Airplanes. If things like Reynolds Numbers, Thrust angles, angles of incidence or wing loads mean absolutely nothing to you, what do you suppose that they mean to the importer of these ARF/RTF models. If you do not care, soon they will not either.

Things such as I have mentioned are the reason that I said previously, "FLYING IS MORE THAN FLYING". I do not mean that you need to be an engineer, but you should at least understand why your model will or will not recover from a Snap roll or inverted flat spin. If you demonstrate the attitude that I see from your posts, then I certainly understand why you may have perceived a lack of enthusiam from the other flyers that you have encountered. It is probally not what you have chosen to fly, but rather what is between your ears.

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Even without ANY raynold blabla stuff, id still be able to fly. Pizzaboxflyers, shockflyers, you name it. Everything thats as flat as a barn door and doesnt even remotely look like it could fly. Due to the excessivly powerfull electric motors weve got nowadays, wingloading and lift arnt as essential to flight anymore. If we want, we could fly rocket projectiles with flaps on it.

And again with the "if you dont care, no one will". Utter nonsence.. You think chervolet will stop selling cars because noone gives a hoot about how the engine works? Hell no. Will microsoft stop selling copys of windows if noone cares about programming code? Im just saying the CONSUMER doesnt have to know crap about what he or she is using, its only handy that theres someone else doing it. Its NOT NECESSARY, but its handy. If we really had to, the ARFs will get made by machine assembly lines (if not already).

I find building to be an annoying chore, something that has to be done before the fun starts. So I preffer to avoid it as much as possible. I see no enjoyment in having to sit in a dust covered cyano stinkshack all day long for a couple weeks before I can finally take it up into the air. I dont want to know how long a wingroot has to be or how fat the chorus is. I simply dont care for it. I want to grab and go. There might be some woodworms who find the feeling of eyewatering glue fumes and a pound of sawdust clogging up the nostrils to be very pleasant, but not me. Sure, it all started with HAVING to build it yourself and HAVING to use a severly underpowered IC engine, but were living in a "if you want to" age now. If you want to, you can still build it yourself. If you want to, you can just pick up a box and skip the old rituals. If you want to, you can be a greasemonkey and fly IC. If you want to, you can fly expencive electro.

All im saying is, some like it old fashioned, some like it fresh, but dont be an ass to someone because he likes something different. If someone likes to do things different, dont treat him as a desolate person.

When it comes to models, its indeed between my ears. I dont like the effort of building before flight, I dont like the effort of cleaning it after flight. Hence electric ARF. Its called personal taste. I do not dislike clubs and other flyers, I dislike clubs that ask an irrational entrance fee, or have stupid ideals. I still go flying with a busload of people that have the same interests as me, just not as a club where just about anyone can join, but more as a group of friends.

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Freakazoid,
The day as a nation (USA, France, Great Britain, EU whoever) we stop caring about how something works is the day that another nation that does care about how things work ie China, India will kick our collective butts. If you can't engineer it you can build it. If you can't build it you will beholden to those who can. The west is becoming more and more of a set of debtor nations. Your going to see colonialism in reverse. Which is going to leave darn little time for those of us fortunate enough to have the time and money to invest in hobbies.

Not if no one knows how to build or program them you won't.

John

PS I'm 55 an old fart and I like electrics.

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

I already buy 90% of my stuff from china, so what do I care. [&:] My own continent is to expencive, amerika has irrational custom taxes, and asia is the only way out.

And wing calculations are already deep into the computer world. As soon as its in the machines, noone is needed anymore. Even I can cobble together info to virtually build a plane, if I gather some automated computer programs to do the math for me. You probably mean if no one EVER knew how to do it, it woulnd be here now, but I mean all it takes is 1 person to think it up, and a whole army to copy it. That last thing already happened. ARF factories dont reinvent the wheel, they just use examples to get it done.

An electric fart? Thats a real oddity! I have yet to meet one for real.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

Freakazoid:
There is an attitude that you exhibit that may have turned the guy at the field off. He couldn't very well turn you away for a perceived attitude that irritated him. But he damn sure could send you on your way for your insisting he tolerate you and even assist you with a kind of plane that he hated in the first place. In other words, the plane was just an excuse to get rid of a pest he didn't like from the beginning. After reading your posts, I can't say that I blame anyone who does enjoy building and flying internal combustion engine airplanes for wanting you to go away--a good many of the things you are saying are downright offensive. Most of us "old farts" have paid our dues and don't need to be exposed to anyone with your kink of attitude. This same guy, approached by someone with the same equipment you have, but a different attitude, may well have acted differently.

moodier

My Feedback: (1)

Hi;This post brings back many memories would have been back to the hobby 10 years earlier except for the reception received from the club in St.Paul that I tried visiting a few times!Again found out from the LHS they didn't want toencourage any more flyers to clutter up there field.Being an X ucontrol flyer from the 50s found this new fangled type of plane interesting!After coming to YUma as snowbird found people that were receptive to helping a newby get into it and have enjoyed many years since.BUt I don't think this isn't restricted to R/C,Being a streetrodder I brought my car down here only to be told by the local club they didn't want snowbirds in there club.Thats OK I can live without them too still have shown my car couple times here and did enter it in the big yearly show here a couple times but have quit that now too!

treedog

i think i see the problem here and heres my 2 pence. this post started with "its not my intent to start a feud, BUT now see what u started a feud. see it's like reverse pshycology lol and notice the original guy threw his grenade in the tent then sat back and watched the carnage now we eve have a man from europe where gas is sky high and hates oil involved but i think i saw the problem with the first guys ways him and his brother just found a field and figured they would be accepted i dont know about any 1 else but my momma always said be polite and dont go where ur not wanted probly includes here too lol but what i did was ask the club what the rules were and if i had to join by calling 1 of the members first and being polite trying not to step on toes right off the bat some people naturaly get worried a bit if u just show up at a field pull ur wing ding fandango out and and not even try to introduce urself first. theres more but for now thatll do i like flying anything with wings and a motor/engine i think im a masochist thats why i do it lol

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

First of all, he was the head of the club! He shoulnd have let his own personal taste judge wether I could join or not!

Also, I dont have an attitude, only a strong opinion that I do not let anyone bend out of shape just to appeal to them. You may call it headstrong, but in no way am I trying to be rude. I would also apreciate it if people would refrain from assuming they know me, just by a couple forum posts.. Some discussions just get me a little steamed, but that doesnt represent me in normal life at all. (Im really a shy person, actually.. [sm=redface.gif])

I didnt persist at him, I just showed up after a couple phonecalls and emails, for a chat at the field, but after all the formalities like introducing myself and marvelling at all the nice things that came flying past, I told him that my prefferance was electro planes. He started hanging up all kinds of BS stories about how electric wasnt suitable for training purposes. For instance he told me the oil thing wasnt as bad as I thought (People walking around with a gallon of cleanex and 10 rolls of bogpaper in the background..). After that he started telling me I should buy a (freakishly expencive by the way..) 4stroke trainer, and I refused (in a decent manner). He got annoyed because I didnt want to do it his way, and he started making a fool out of me.

That was the start of me going rogue. I do not care for clubs anymore and Id rather fly the things I like, without a club and with a risk of getting a fine then conforming to that "old fart" and letting my own personal taste go unawnsered.. Is it that irrational to want to fly electric as a beginner? (I teached myself how to fly, and after 2 years still not a single model totalled. [8D])

Stickbuilder

Looks as though he didn't have much work to do there. You appear to have done that very well for yourself. One thing is paramount here. It was not your club. It was the club of and for the other guys. (appears to have been I/C dedicated) Why don't you find a club (better yet, start one) dedicated to those of your personal likes and tastes, and do your own thing? Why do you want to force others to conform to you? You apparently went to HIS CLUB, and because he did not appreciate your likes, you got your little feelings stepped on. Seems to me that you need to grow some tough hide. GROW UP. The rest of the world does not give a tinker's damn what you want. Join in or move along. Fly what you want to, I will do the same. There is a whole other world that exists outside the European Union. If American's are so screwed up, call on someone else the next time some goose-stepping dictator comes calling.
We have been there (twice now) and done that. Thanks for the appreciation.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

Freakazoid:
Your last attitude exhibits exactly the attitude you deny having.

Freakazoid

My Feedback: (1)

Bbandit: Im a fool because I dont want to be pushed into IC flying? Yeah right... Who REALLY is the fool, I wonder...

I dont want people to conform to me and my ways, I just want them to accept that there are other opinions besides that of theire own, and that theire opinion isnt necessarely law. Apparently that club accepted electro flying at the field because there where quite a few around when I got there, the club owner just refuses to accept beginners that want electro.. No one stepped on my feelings, im coulnd care less about it. I was gonna fly anyway, club or not. It just annoys me that some clubs have stupid policies based on nothing. If Id apply to that club now that Ive learnt to fly and nolonger need an instructor, im perty sure he woulnd nag about it at all.. That club simply cant or doesnt want to deal with electro starters. No problem, but he didnt have to be an ass about it.

And grow up? Big talk for someone who attempts to go sigfried on me, based on a few pieces of text on the internet he read the past hour or so. So drop the "im way better then you" attitude, you know nothing about me.


Jolly: If not allowing people to walk all over me, is an "attitude", then sure, I have one hell of an attitude. Deal with it..

Stickbuilder

Little man, I don't have the bad attitude here. I do not want you to conform to my way of thinking. I simply stated, find your own kind. As to, "Going Sigfried" on you, perhaps you should pay more attention to him. He appears to have all his S**T in one stocking as it were. Go away, do your own thing, grow bored and move on to something else. Fly what you want where you want but please GROW UP. Others will not and should not allow you to do what you want at thier venue, just because you want to. Fly what they fly, fly what you fly, Just don't gripe about what others do. I personally don't care if you ever fly. Go pick your nose or something.