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Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

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Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

Old 01-13-2003, 04:10 AM
  #76  
vicman
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

I two am a member of various other organisations. And am quite satisfied with my membership. I have read many an old MA mag and have come to realize the same questions regarding the value of AMA have been around a long time. Any activity with more than a local intrest NEEDS some form of sanctioning body AMA seems to fill this need.
It appears to me the moderator has a more of a beef than the rest of us. Also quit whinning about the $58 bucks, all of us waste more than that on less useful stuff thru the year.
Old 01-13-2003, 10:25 AM
  #77  
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

One has to consider what the newbie in the sport thinks of what the AMA has to offer him. Usually, those who already know how to fly are quite satisfied with the AMA, just as long as they have a place to fly and can fly at their leisure, unlike that of the beginner who either doesn't have a club in his area, or maybe does find a club, but can't get much in the way of instruction, for whatever reason. Since he feels that he dare not complain to his club, the dissatisfied newbie, not knowing any better, voices his complaints to AMA headquarters and doesn't get a reply. Now there is someone who really has a bone to pick with AMA.

I've been told by AMA officials that they receive thousands of complaints from very angry newbies who felt that were ignored by all involved. Only on occasion will newbies complain about their clubs and/or the AMA for fear of retribution from their club's leaders. Too many mistakenly believe that because there are fewif any complaints from newbies, all newbies must be satisfied with the help they receive from their clubs.

Take care,
CCR
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Old 01-13-2003, 05:44 PM
  #78  
Matt Kirsch
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

I'd really like to see those numbers, CCR. The way you paint the picture, we lose hundreds of thousands of new pilots every year because we're all a big bunch of meanies... We may lose some, and it's unfortunate, but there is no way that you, me, or the AMA can control the behaviour of people. Some clubs just consist of nothing but grey-haired children with bones to pick and axes to grind. We just have to do the best we can in our area.

The main thing we need to do is change how we describe the AMA to newbies. Most people just recite the old "for the insurance" mantra, and don't say a word about what else the AMA does.

Getting back to the main discussion here, I see that many people still think there should be a graduated dues scale based on the type of plane you fly.

First off, you can hurt/main/kill someone with a .15-powered plane just as easily as you can hurt/main/kill someone with a 200MPH turbine. In fact, people are far more likely to be hurt/maimed/killed by a small sport plane. People with thousands of dollars invested in their equipment are far more diligent about maintenance and repair; where a small sport plane pilot might go up with an iffy battery or a twitchy servo, a turbine pilot would immediately ground his plane without a second thought. We've all put planes up that had "problems." If you say you haven't, you're lying.

Secondly, the family of the person that was hurt/maimed/killed won't sue you for less just because the plane was smaller. The medical/burial bills aren't smaller just because the plane is smaller. The "mental anguish" isn't smaller just because the plane is smaller. You can cause serious life-altering damage to a small child with even the lightest, slowest park flier.

To all you naysayers that can't understand why a viable alternative to the AMA has not emerged, this hobby/sport is not popular enough to support two separate organizations. "There ain't enough room in this town for the both of us," as it were. If the UMA makes it, more power to 'em, but my money is on the UMA failing sometime in the next two years, and it won't be because of the AMA. They do nothing to promote themselves or the hobby. Word of mouth hasn't been causing the desired explosive growth for the last 50 years, why would it now? Trade shows, programs, and events are what generate interest. The UMA needs to bring people into the hobby/sport in order to survive. They need to form clubs in every area and procure flying sites so people with UMA have somewhere to fly.
Old 01-13-2003, 06:28 PM
  #79  
raderrustler
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Default AMA?

I am not part of the AMA, primarily because there is not a flying field within 60 miles of my house, and I live in the desert. I will join in the future only because I will want to fly at places I travel to and they will require it. The cost is nominal compared to my fuel consumption on a yearly basis. just my .02
Randy
Old 01-13-2003, 07:26 PM
  #80  
Matt Kirsch
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

I really wish people would stop saying, "I join because I have to," or, "it's just a drop in the bucket compared to what I spend on modeling supplies in a year." This apathy is the reason why there is so much anti-AMA sentiment and why the AMA has so many problems.

Maybe some of you ought to try participating at a contest or Fun-Fly before you say, "I'll never do that, so why am I paying for it?" Maybe you ought to try reading the magazine before you say, "I hate Model Aviation."

Some of you should read "Green Eggs and Ham."
Old 01-13-2003, 07:35 PM
  #81  
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

Originally posted by mkirsch
I'd really like to see those numbers, CCR. The way you paint the picture, we lose hundreds of thousands of new pilots every year because we're all a big bunch of meanies... We may lose some, and it's unfortunate, but there is no way that you, me, or the AMA can control the behaviour of people. Some clubs just consist of nothing but grey-haired children with bones to pick and axes to grind. We just have to do the best we can in our area.

The main thing we need to do is change how we describe the AMA to newbies. Most people just recite the old "for the insurance" mantra, and don't say a word about what else the AMA does.

mkirsch,
This is not the picture I painted but what I was told from someone from the AMA. You could contact them and maybe get the same answer, I don't know. But I have read, seen and talked to many veteran fliers who share the same sentiments as this member: http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...077&forumid=59

But as you pointed out, there is little to nothing that AMA nor anyone else can do to change things for the beginner. Our club, the Lake Ontario Flyers decided that there was something that we could do, which was to offer 3 beginner days instead of the one day a week previously set aside for teaching only. Also, at the last meeting, I brought to attention of AMA's Sign 3 and Fly Free Ambassador program. It seems that no one was aware of this program, even though it's be in existance for 3 years now.


Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructor]
Old 01-13-2003, 09:19 PM
  #82  
rcflier_gi
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

Originally posted by mkirsch
You can cause serious life-altering damage to a small child with even the lightest, slowest park flier.

Yes your right but I can also cause serious life-altering damage with a baseball, football, golf ball, volleyball, kite, bicycle, skateboard, etc. But I don't need to join American Baseball Association, American Football Association and so on to enjoy these sports/hobbies at the local park.
Old 01-13-2003, 10:49 PM
  #83  
Dave Bowles
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Default Dangers in everything

But I believe you have to look at what is more potentially dangerous and what you have more control over. R/C or model aviation is one of those Hobbies that you can't predict when it will happen and can't really prepare for it, most other sports you can control the speed of the ply, Model Aviation is Unique .
Old 01-13-2003, 11:10 PM
  #84  
P-51B
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

Originally posted by captinjohn
onewasp: You do not have to read the magizine to know what is going on with the AMA. Just read the computor in front of you. Its a good place to ask questions too. A book cannot talk or explain things better. Captinjohn
True, and you don't need to know how the government spends your taxes either, CNN will tell you. The question is, do you want to blindly follow these posts or check it out for yourself.

Just look at the how the questions in the poll are worded, that should tell you somthing....read the magazine and form some opinions on your own, don't blindly follow.
Old 01-13-2003, 11:20 PM
  #85  
Mike Wiz
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

To me the AMA is first the national organization of my brothers in aeromodeling. Second it's a standardization of rules and regulations that tell the world that we are not just a bunch of yahoos playing with dangerous toys, but rather we care about what we do and take it very seriously. Third the AMA provides me with an additional insurance policy above and beyond my homeowner’s policy....and a pretty nice newsletter in the form of Model Aviation magazine. I could go on, but these benefits are the main ones for me.

I don't see anything presented by anybody here in this thread that makes me want to give all that up just to save $20.

Mike Wizynajtys
AMA 553158
Old 01-13-2003, 11:51 PM
  #86  
EASYTIGER
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

Again, you WON'T save $20 if you lose the magazine, last I looked, it was more like $10.

I still don't think a park flyer represents any real danger to anyone, I know, it MIGHT fly into the windsheld of a bus fulla nuns and cause them to crash into a bus fulla kids, but it's most unlikely.
I MIGHT get hit by a meteorite tomorrow, but I am still leaving home in the morning without a helmet. It's just a risk I am willing to take!
Park flyers are good, and they don't do any harm to anyone. They BORE the heck out of me, personally, but that's not your problem! And if somebody is flying them exclusively, and they want to save $58 by not joining the AMA, it should not be a problem for ANYONE. If they DO want to join, so much the better.
Old 01-14-2003, 12:26 AM
  #87  
Dave Bowles
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Default Mike Wiz

Nice post and my thoughts as well. AMA is the one thing that makes Model Aviation a National Hobby and keeps us all on the same page concerning many issues .

I guess I am going to have to face up to the reality that Model Aviation Hobby is not what it was when I started, and many of the people in it don't have the Passion for the Hobby like I and Many of the people I started with have. I can see that to the Majority of the people today it is just a RECREATION, like Golf , Water Craft or Video Games. They only care they have is their own satisfaction with flying , this is why most don't know what AMA is all about and why they don't participate in their clubs or vote in the AMA elections, Why they never volunteer to work events or show up on trainer night, or even mow the grass at the field. Its just entertainment .. To bad for the Hobby, good for the manufactuers.

I know if it wern't for the people that I got started with at Age 12 or so, My life would have been less than Zero ,
Old 01-14-2003, 01:03 AM
  #88  
rcflier_gi
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Default Re: Mike Wiz

Originally posted by Dave Bowles
Nice post and my thoughts as well. AMA is the one thing that makes Model Aviation a National Hobby and keeps us all on the same page concerning many issues .

I guess I am going to have to face up to the reality that Model Aviation Hobby is not what it was when I started, and many of the people in it don't have the Passion for the Hobby like I and Many of the people I started with have. I can see that to the Majority of the people today it is just a RECREATION, like Golf , Water Craft or Video Games. They only care they have is their own satisfaction with flying , this is why most don't know what AMA is all about and why they don't participate in their clubs or vote in the AMA elections, Why they never volunteer to work events or show up on trainer night, or even mow the grass at the field. Its just entertainment .. To bad for the Hobby, good for the manufactuers.

I know if it wern't for the people that I got started with at Age 12 or so, My life would have been less than Zero ,
I participate in my club and vote in the AMA elections. I trailer my riding mower to county park our field is at to mow a landing strip in the spring and fall when the grass grows too fast for the county workers to keep up. I help newcomers and beginners learn to fly and answer their questions. I talk to local elected officials to try to locate a dedicated flying field. I fly at local festivals to promote the hobby. But I don't care much for the AMA. So I guess I have no passion for the hobby.
Old 01-14-2003, 01:21 AM
  #89  
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Default AMA Magizine

Originally posted by P-51B


True, and you don't need to know how the government spends your taxes either, CNN will tell you. The question is, do you want to blindly follow these posts or check it out for yourself.

Just look at the how the questions in the poll are worded, that should tell you somthing....read the magazine and form some opinions on your own, don't blindly follow.
P51B: I have read the magizine. It was very boring to read. As for facts CNN, AMA or whoever...you still do not know the real truth....like where your$$ are really going. I still think people that compete should pay a higher amount and the rest of us should have a break on the price of AMA.. About $30 is enough to pay for flying at your own field and not in any competition , and no magizine. Thanks Captinjohn
Old 01-14-2003, 02:03 AM
  #90  
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

I think if you all don't want what the AMA offers you ought to start you own organization that offers what you do want. Why should the AMA that I've worked for and paid for be cut down to nothing more than an insurance provider?

Tell me, what will you guys do with the assets the AMA does have once you whittle them down to nothing but an insurance company?....sell them off and give the proceeds to the current members.....the ones who don't want to be part of the organization, but want insurance?.....I think not.

The only solution for all of you AMA members who don't want to be an AMA member is for you to form a new organization. I think it's been done before with very little success, because nobody wanted to help out and make the organization work.....they all just wanted to fly instead.

Mike Wizynajtys
AMA 553158
Old 01-14-2003, 02:11 AM
  #91  
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

Originally posted by Mike Wiz
I think if you all don't want what the AMA offers you ought to start you own organization that offers what you do want. Why should the AMA that I've worked for and paid for be cut down to nothing more than an insurance provider?

snip

The only solution for all of you AMA members who don't want to be an AMA member is for you to form a new organization. I think it's been done before with very little success, because nobody wanted to help out and make the organization work.....they all just wanted to fly instead.

Mike Wizynajtys
AMA 553158
Yup!
Old 01-14-2003, 02:22 AM
  #92  
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

WELL SAID, DAVE AND MIKE!!!!
Old 01-14-2003, 02:28 AM
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Default Re: AMA Magizine

Originally posted by captinjohn
P51B: I have read the magizine. It was very boring to read. As for facts CNN, AMA or whoever...you still do not know the real truth....like where your$$ are really going. I still think people that compete should pay a higher amount and the rest of us should have a break on the price of AMA.. About $30 is enough to pay for flying at your own field and not in any competition , and no magizine. Thanks Captinjohn
Captinjohn, I didn't mean to imply you didn't. If I did I am sorry. I simply wanted to point out to onewasp, and others, it is better to start out with the source of the information before bothering to listen to the likes of us in this thread.
Old 01-14-2003, 02:32 AM
  #94  
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Default AMA

I do not see where anybody wants to cut the AMA down to nothing. I am sure a lot of RC people do relilize that the AMA does do a lot of the right stuff to help the hobby. It may be a good Idea for the AMA to ask us RC people what we want the AMA to do for the ones that foot the $$$$. Just an Idea..... Captinjohn
Old 01-14-2003, 02:42 AM
  #95  
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

Mike, I am with you! I have a very young son who is the reason I am in this hobby ( motorcycle racing is not the atmospere I wanted him to cling to ) however I did have to search for a club that wasn't a bunch of old chromudgeons. I am very thankful to the West Hickory Aero Modelers (WHAM) for accepting a guy trying to spend some time with his son and helping both enjoy model aviation thru both airplanes and rockets. The AMA leaders and CDs in our club, and even our district rep have all been a source of encouragement to Spence and I.
Thanks
Old 01-14-2003, 03:55 AM
  #96  
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

Captinjohn,

I have read several posts in this thread (and others lately) that allude to changing the AMA's mission to just insurance provider. It's more than that....always has been....always will be. Some people don't want to pay for the things the AMA provides. Some people just want a flat place to fly. That's cool.....I think those people should go find a flat place and leave the AMA to those people that want something more.

I don't completely agree with everything the AMA does. After all, I'm just one member. I don't see the whole picture from my vantage point and I certainly don't think the answers to everybody’s problems will always coincide with my own specific needs. I do think the AMA could spend less on Muncie and more on local fields. But I imagine the more active members (the ones that go to the NATS perhaps) speak up a little more often than the rest of us do and so their wants and desires are heard quite loudly while the average modeler's needs may not be heard much at all. I didn't say that is the way it ought to be, but it's probably the reality of the situation. There is definitely some room for improvement on the local front.


Mike Wizynajtys
AMA 553158
Old 01-14-2003, 04:31 AM
  #97  
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Default Re: One more option...

Originally posted by ChuckAuger
You need the option..

"Only because it is mandatory at my field, but I wouldn't have a field if not for AMA "insurance" " .

I only buy it to be able to fly at other club's field.
DITTO!
Old 01-14-2003, 06:19 AM
  #98  
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Default rcflier_gi

I think thats great, Now its time to look beyond your local field, Nobody has ever said they like everything about AMA, Nothing wrong with not agree with something, theres plenty of things I don't like but I do see the need and advantage of having AMA, and I don't see the point of spreading false or misleading information about the AMA simply because I disagree with something (not that you have) , or because I have not been handed goodies on a plate from them.


Why do you not Like the AMA ?
Old 01-14-2003, 06:58 AM
  #99  
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

the main reason other organizations do not and will not be able to last in competition with the AMA, is
that the FAI will only recognise ONE body in each country to represent aeromodeling. and here in this country, AMA does that thru the NAA.
untill ya can break that strangelhold of representation, ya don't stand a chance of actual sucess.
any legal types out there wana trya brief on this?
Old 01-14-2003, 07:57 AM
  #100  
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Default Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

There is no single organization with as many members or as diverse a membership as the AMA that pleases even a majority of the membership all the time. Yet if those people were to reorganize into smaller groups with less diversity in each group, the political clout would sink to near zero. You just can't have it both ways.

In the beginning there were just free flighters and two areas of interest, indoor and outdoor. Then U-control showed up around the second world war. Radio control has been around since the late 30's but it didn't start to grow until citizen band frequencies became available around 1948. R/C took another big leap in participation around the late 60's and early 70's when digital proportional control was introduced and when Walt Good and Jerimiah Courtney of AMA got us our own frequencies. Since then R/C has fragmentented into many interest groups: R/C aerobatics, Pylon Racers, IMAAC, LSF, Park Fliers, etc, etc. AMA has changed slowly by recognizing the interest groups and involving them in the rule making process.

It is only in the last decade or two that the model industry has become concentrated in a few large radio manufacturers and a few large kit manufacturers and distributors like Tower Hobbies. It is only in the last decade or so that the popularity of ARF's have sent manufacturing overseas and really quality stuff has become available from the former satilites of the USSR. Yet with all these changes most of the technological innovation and the highest quality products are from cottage inductries. These changes have brought tens of thousands of new members into the hobby who are less committed to the hobby/sport and have less interest in the AMA. The AMA will adapt slowly as in the past and as any large organization would.

Those of you that belong to volunteer organizations like model airplane clubs know that about 10% of the membership does about 90% of the work and the rest (freeloaders) benefit. AMA is a mostly voluntary organization. At least most of the people who do the work are volunteers. Not only do the rest of the members benefit from that work but but so do nonmembers. AMA has very few paid employees for the size of the organization. The leaders of AMA are, for the most part, modelers who love the Hobby/Sport as much or more than the people who sit on the sidelines complaining and wishing for unrealistic pie in the sky.

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