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Old 01-16-2003, 07:08 AM
  #1  
Ollie
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Default Good Bye

I will no longer be participating in this forum.
Old 01-16-2003, 07:43 AM
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I hope you at least take the time to read all the replies from people in shock. Including mine.

If you can't be talked out of this and you do decide to go through with this please know that I'll truly miss you. In the short time I've been here I've come to greatly respect you and your depth of knowledge. I'm sure that such a decision didn't come lightly. After all, it's not like you're fading away due to lack of intrest. This is obviously a very concious decision.

My first reaction is to ask you to please reconsider. It just won't be the same here without you.

But if you decide to go I'll certainly be amongst the first to cheer your return.

I wish you all the best regardless of what you decide.

Truly your's
Bruce
Old 01-16-2003, 11:53 AM
  #3  
rc bugman
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Ollie,

Thanks for all your assistance over the years. My university research using RC planes has been greatly helped with your suggestions.

Best of luck to you

Elson
Old 01-16-2003, 02:58 PM
  #4  
warbirdz1
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Default Aerodynamics.....

Ollie......I could only summize that someone or something doesn't sit well with you here.....but for the other 98% of us I think your candide and articulate manner and material will be missed......I urge you to reconsider and focus on whats important....helping those of us (like myself) that benefit from your knowledge.....after-all one of the great mainstays of this hobby is helping others.....or how else could we continue to flourish as a group......theres no pecking order or so-called gurus.....we all are entitled to our own opinions and comments....sometimes wrong as they may be.....but most of the time even thru my own occasional ignorance ....I see that the other person has a better answer or idea......Bill.....
Old 01-16-2003, 05:24 PM
  #5  
fprintf
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Well, to get a full idea how much time and effort Ollie has put into this discussion group, just do a search on "Ollie" and you will find many *pages* of responses and advice.

I think the vast majority of the people who participate in RCUniverse will certainly miss you Ollie. I hope we all got a chance to say "thank you" whenever you answered our questions.

Thank you. Say hi to Stephen S. from CT when he visits you in Punta Gorda this winter for me!
Old 01-17-2003, 07:16 PM
  #6  
Ikaros
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Ollie, do yourself and (everyone else) -1 a favour, and stay here.

I came across this issue by chance. I think it would be totally wrong if you left.

If nice guys leave because twats are scearing them off, how would things become after a while ?

If I had read that thread before, I would have supported you against that guy.

The others should have done that already, in a more powerful way.

Cheers, Ikaros
Old 01-17-2003, 09:00 PM
  #7  
DICKEYBIRD
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Originally posted by Ikaros
If I had read that thread before, I would have supported you against that guy. The others should have done that already, in a more powerful way.
Ollie will probably say let a sleeping dog lie or as we say here in the south "don't kick that cowpie" but I have to ask what thread and what guy? Just for the record I'd like to know what this is about.
Old 01-18-2003, 12:07 PM
  #8  
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Default Yeah

What Gives
Old 01-18-2003, 12:57 PM
  #9  
Shredz
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Default Say it isn't so...

Ollie,
I looked forward to reading your posts. In your replies, I found most of the direction I was looking for without having to post a question. In my mind, you are "The Glider Man".

I will have to work harder to find answers without you. Truly, we will be diminished without you.

If you won't reconsider, please accept my sincerest best wishes for your future endeavours.

Fly on......
Old 01-18-2003, 04:11 PM
  #10  
mvigod
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Ollie's is exercising his right to boycott RCU. Unfortunately my opinion is that he is one who wants the old guard to remain in the AMA which is no longer serving the masses. I don't want to eliminate the AMA contrary to his belief. I do want to have its bylaws rewritten so the elections are fair, muncie supported on the backs of those who use it or have it sold for cheaper digs and the million dollar drain on members which is Model Aviation either eliminated or spun off to be supported by those who choose to get it.

Ollie's boycott attempts will be in vain if the majority agrees with me. If everyone shares his thinking then his beliefs will win out. This is how the democratic process works. He also should realize UNLESS the majority of voters back my ideas that the AMA will remain untouched. It won't be MY will that gets changes done but rather the will of the many. He seemingly wants to scapegoat one guy which is me for what he fears everyone may want. I do not think this is fair but that is his right.

Everyone on RCU has been allowed their opinion on the AMA whether they agree 100% with what I have proposed or their opinion is 180 degrees to mine. I felt this was as fair as it can get. Nobody has been deleted, edited or banned for disagreeing with some of the items I brought up. Ollie feels that he should boycott RCU because I have exercised my right to free speech and opinion while at the same time allowing others to do the same. For this I do not understand his action but cannot do anything about it. His presence will be missed and I hope he reconsiders.
Old 01-18-2003, 05:39 PM
  #11  
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Default Well Put Marc

And we will miss you Ollie
I want my cake and eat it too!
Will you reconsider...
Old 01-18-2003, 05:43 PM
  #12  
Ollie
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Here is a partial quote from Marc's posting #161 to the AMA Discussion Forum under the What Does AMA Mean to you Thread.

"To the poster above who feels that it would be bad to tear something down that needs tearing down I must respectfully disagree. If things are broken you must either step up to the plate to fix them or sit idly by. If tearing something down will lead to making it better it is a good thing. Look at the casinos in Las Vegas. You hae Steve Wynn tearing old ones down and putting up magnificent new ones in their place. Tearing down is sometimes necessary to rebuild."

If you think this might be taken out of context, go read the whole thing. Marc is talking about his intention to tear down AMA and rebuild it.

In my opinion, this effort will fail in the end and meanwhile its divisiveness will do great harm to our hobby/sport. In spite of Mark's best intentions the law of unintended consequences will attend his crusade.

Marc is a very able manager and has brought RCU from nothing to the best forum on the net in only about a year. It is with sadness that my conscience takes me elsewhere.
Old 01-18-2003, 06:14 PM
  #13  
Shredz
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Default If elsewhere you must go....

Ollie, Please let us know where that might be.
Old 01-18-2003, 06:54 PM
  #14  
Ikaros
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I got this matter totally wrong and i'm an idiot. What I wrote before in this matter does not make any sense, except that Ollie seems to be a nice guy. I thougt Ollies feeling about leaving rcu was about a totally different matter.

Cheers,
Ikaros
Old 01-18-2003, 07:05 PM
  #15  
Ben Lanterman
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Ollie, remember when RCM and another group were pushing separate insurance from AMA. Don Dewey was really hard over against the AMA policies, etc. It did result in a divided group of modelers and bad feelings. The other group went under for some reason or the other.

However I think the best approach is to make your voice heard loud and long. If you don't like it don't stop posting. Instead do your best to persuade others that it is not in their best interest. The forums at this site can give a wide audience to your views which as you state them, I agree with.

Doesn't Marc realize that it is just model airplanes, not about religion, world hunger or something important. There is always a little frog in the little pond that wants the rest of the animals in their pond to jump to their croaks.
Old 01-18-2003, 10:53 PM
  #16  
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Ben - Yes I do realize this is just model airplanes probably more than anybody. It is what sparked this whole line of thinking. Go to your field one day and fly your planes and then go home. If you never go to Muncie and don't read their magazine your single trip on that day just told the tale of what you need from the AMA. If you are one in the minority who reads their magazine or will compete at Muncie then good for you. But you must realize that the majority is financing either of those 2 things you enjoy that they might not use or need. Simple as I've stated...not politics or religion...just planes..just my opinion. If others agree en masse change will be made for the better and if not everybody goes on their own happy way. Why Ollie holds my opinions against me or RCU I don't know. When JR or others came here and spoke out about the AMA he didn't leave. When I speak my mind about it all of a sudden it's wrong? C'mon...isn't this a little bit of taking your ball and going home mentality?

All I did originally was put up a poll here asking what the AMA means to them. 3 answers were possible..insurance only, insurance only out of necessity and insurance plus other benefits. I don't see how asking that question and following up with my opinions as others have also made known is so wrong for me? If somebody is giving me more weight for my word/opinion over any average modeler than that is their choice. My sitewide sticky merely polled an opinion so there was no "broadcast message". Below was the entire first post and all I wanted to see if others maybe thought the way I did.

"Tell us what the AMA means to you? Insurance only or more. Please Vote!

(post # 1)




There are some discussions in the AMA forum regarding what the AMA should be doing in regards to it's functions and duties. Topics of where the money from membership fees should be spent or not spent.

I'm curious how many people use the AMA only for insurance, only for insurance because they must to fly at a field, or for insurance plus other services and benefits they offer. If you use the AMA for insurance & other benefits or services please post what those other benefits/services might have been in the last 24 months that you benefitted from directly.

Please take a moment and vote this important issue..."
Old 01-19-2003, 02:00 AM
  #17  
Ben Lanterman
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Hello Marc, Do let me thank you for the great site. I tend toward the aerodynamics site but look at a lot of the others. I have been a modeler for over 50 years so have seen a lot of things come and go.

The thing about a poll on a site like this is that it gets a life force of its own and is never a simple poll. Things are never as simple as the answers to a few questions might seem to make them. By asking the questions you have started a divisive process. It is the way life is. I have never met Ollie and would hesitate to put words in his mouth but having seen the results of previous divisive attempts I can see where he would think here we go again. He seems to be a man of well considered principle.

I personally do not think it is an important issue but that is my opinion, agreed.

I do read the AMA magazine from front to back along with about 10 others on RC modeling and would pay extra to get it. It doesn't bother me that a few people are forced to take the magazine against their wishes. I started to write the words "Poor babies, forced to read again" but that wouldn't be polite I guess.

I have met some of the people at headquarters and find them to be OK guys. Each comes with a personal vision or agenda and are not necessarily different than any of us. I sense the whole discussion over how things should be ran as basically a difference of opinions and personalities. Some people simply cannot get along with others no matter what, they grate on each other and this can effect their approach as to how the AMA is ran. There are, as is with most things, as many workable ways of running the AMA as there are people involved.

The AMA has lofty ideas implemented by all too human people. The AMA is not alone in this, it's everywhere. Mercy knows the president, VPs, workers, etc. are not rocket scienctists by any means.

I guess I don't consider the cost of the AMA dues to be excessive. I spend more on a prop than the dues cost a year. I refuse to get too upset over the cost although if added up it is a reasonable sum of money. There are as many workable ways of spending the money as there are people involved.

Does it mean that I think the AMA should waste money? No. Does it mean that I think money will be wasted? Sure. Do I expect mistakes? Sure. Do I expect the leaders of the AMA to learn from their mistakes and pass on that knowledge to those that would follow them? Yes.

I am happy that someone else wants to do the work that I don't want to do. Most of the AMA members probably have the same attitude (based on volting results in the last election). It is not necessiarily a bad attitude, just an attitude.
Old 01-19-2003, 03:53 AM
  #18  
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Ben,

I do agree with what you state above. I also think Ollie is a fine gentleman and truly feel bad that he wants to leave RCU and all it offers simply due to me expressing my opinion while allowing all others to agree or disagree. If I had squelched others here in the AMA forum or those threads I could certainly see where this might be justified but we are all AMA members expressing how we feel the organization should be run.

I never met Ollie either and I'm sure if he knew me well he knows I am just saying what I believe in my heart to be the right thing. Many have agreed totally with what I said and many have not. Isn't that the way in politics? In the end the majority rules. What is the majority now? We won't know until the ballots are counted. As I stated I don't intend to run and would prefer not to unless not a single soul is willing to do it. RCU is a 16 hour/day job and 6 days a week (sometimes 7) typically so I have plenty to do helping modelers in my little way here each day.
Old 01-19-2003, 05:03 AM
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Mark I wish you well with the continued success of RCU,
Old 01-19-2003, 05:11 AM
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Ben - thank you for the kind words...btw..just curious...any relation to Mark Lanternman of AMA magazine?
Old 01-19-2003, 12:15 PM
  #21  
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Marc,

In our society, when the man who owns the soapbox starts expressing a strong opinion, it tends to make many of us nervous. One begins to wonder about the future of "free speech" on the site and the issues of censorship.

I guess I have been in academics too long where the freedom for an individual to prove themselves a moron or an intellect is aggressively protected.

I have noticed that when a business or business man starts expressing a strong and controversial opinion, advertising starts disappearing and customers begin not using the site/service. RCU has been very successful and many of us are very thankful for the site. I would hate to see RCU go the route of RCO.

Just my opinion

Elson
Old 01-19-2003, 04:18 PM
  #22  
rmh
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Hmm- personally I like to hear opinions on a subject -- even if they are only subjective opinions.
I don't like name calling and pouting tho-
And stating that a fact exists just because you say so --does not make it so.
But as long as it is a discussion forum -
Say what you will- but try to stay on topic.
PS- I wrote this to myself
Old 01-19-2003, 04:50 PM
  #23  
mvigod
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Originally posted by rc bugman
Marc,

In our society, when the man who owns the soapbox starts expressing a strong opinion, it tends to make many of us nervous. One begins to wonder about the future of "free speech" on the site and the issues of censorship.

I guess I have been in academics too long where the freedom for an individual to prove themselves a moron or an intellect is aggressively protected.

I have noticed that when a business or business man starts expressing a strong and controversial opinion, advertising starts disappearing and customers begin not using the site/service. RCU has been very successful and many of us are very thankful for the site. I would hate to see RCU go the route of RCO.

Just my opinion

Elson
Doesn't work that way in real politics I'm afraid. Matter of fact it is businessman in the real world who voice their opinions on political parties and issues both in voice and dollars. How many outspoken CEO's of major Fortune 500 companies do we all know that make themselves heard loud and clear in this way yet nobody boycotts them.

People always ring in this analogy to "RCO" and it's demise...people blame all kinds of things for it. I've never once seen the blame correctly placed. RCO died because it's owner disappeared, moved their site to a free server which was slower than death, the software had zero features and he left it for dead. I built RCU at the time since I was frustrated with RCO's speed and lack of features. I knew if people only knew about RCU they would come. I built it and they did. Every email or comment I ever got about RCU never had to do with "thank god you don't censor like RCO did" or "thanks for not following RCO's policies". Every comment I have received and still do is "thanks for such a fast site with so many cool features!" or along those lines. Let's not confuse why RCO died anymore please. Had Ed Walker even gone as far as to put RCO on a fast servers even with that terrible software and the popup RCU probably would not even exist today. I am sure of this.

As I said even though I own RCU I still can have an opinion. Nobody has to agree with me. What you speak of would be if I ran for office in the AMA....then we have conflict of interest issues since I make a living in this industry now. Also nobody has pulled any ads...matter of fact a few companies have much to my surprise contacted me about advertising in the wake of these opinions. Remember I'm not talking about hurting model aviation or taking anything away from it. I'm talking about making it better. It is a hobby that I enjoy with a passion and would never do anything but work to make it more enjoyable for everyone...witness RCU.
Old 01-19-2003, 05:14 PM
  #24  
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hey ollie come back, im in the UK and i dont give a damn about your AMA or any other such organisition.
We do have the BMFA here, tho apart from some temp 1 month insurance i got they do nothing for me, am i a member? nope, am i missing out on something? i very much doubt it.
Our club has its own insurance and isnt affilatied with the BMFA tho we do have so die hards.
I fly, im insured, i have fun. what more do i want?
i hear often the AMA wont allow this, and wont like that... is it law to join? get your own insurance and you can forget those rules and still be law abiding, ahh the joy of changing crystals

Lets not start a modeling civil war here
Old 01-19-2003, 06:19 PM
  #25  
rc bugman
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Marc,

I am only a humble scientist who makes a living observing the world about me and drawing conclusions. I guess only time will tell if strong opinions stated by the RCU adminstrator/owner have a neg impact on RCU's business as observed in other venues.

In the big world, CEO's play both sides of the political fence so they win no matter who is in control of the "power".

Obviously you have a strong opinion and feel the need to express it. Go for it, regardless of the collateral damage.

Elson

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