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Sepulveda Basin

Old 10-10-2007, 12:30 AM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

THeres a lot of guys flying heavier than 1 lb-ders (some several lbs) in the park fly area. I wouldn't have cared much until one of them buzzed me real good as I was out on the runway.
Some guys listen, some don't give a crap. To me it's the single most dangerous thing at the field. Hell, mid airs can happen and do, but having heavier than 1 lb planes flying willy nilly from that area, it's just a matter of time, before someone gets hurt bad. If you get hit with a light plane, it's gonna be an ouch. A three pounder.... nasty.

I think they think if it's an electric it's okay to fly in the park flying zone , no matter what the weight. Maybe a sign?
Old 10-10-2007, 12:52 AM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

Yeah, and most of them are probably not AMA members either as it seems here on RCU the great majority of lecky flyers seem to think the AMA is for glow/gas/turbine only.
Old 10-10-2007, 12:59 AM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin


ORIGINAL: F-86

THeres a lot of guys flying heavier than 1 lb-ders (some several lbs) in the park fly area. I wouldn't have cared much until one of them buzzed me real good as I was out on the runway.
Some guys listen, some don't give a crap. To me it's the single most dangerous thing at the field. Hell, mid airs can happen and do, but having heavier than 1 lb planes flying willy nilly from that area, it's just a matter of time, before someone gets hurt bad. If you get hit with a light plane, it's gonna be an ouch. A three pounder.... nasty.

I think they think if it's an electric it's okay to fly in the park flying zone , no matter what the weight. Maybe a sign?
It is unfortunate to see the majority get burned for a selected few who do not read signs. There is a large sign hanging from the shed
right next to their charge stations. It clearly states the weight limit for the area. If this continues, we will turn off the charge stations
and put the engine run up stands right back to where they used to be.


JasonP
Old 10-10-2007, 03:03 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

Please don’t chastise the many for the sake of a few.
This has already been mentioned and is still in need of repeating.

“Some people don’t listen”

This can also be said of the power folks, who do quite often fly directly though the middle of the Park Flyer area. We have even had big 25% plane scream through that area doing a knife edge.

We all hear a lot of flak about our beloved field raging from Helicopters flying though the main pit area and planes taking off from the taxi ways.

I think the whole area needs to have the law laid down again. New people are always showing up and have no clue of how things run.

My extra 2 cents on the electric area is that when the signs where originally designed (2 + years ago), EP (electric power) was not advanced as it is now.
This being said I think the area is too small flying wise for what is available now.
The past months I have seen the power area decrease in popularity and the electric area has increased.

Valley Flyers have been amazing in providing a superb charging area for the EP gents, but the actual area to fly in is small.

I have heard many stories from the EP side getting flak with lager planes. When they do fly from the main runway and run the pattern, they get yelled at for having a EP plane in a gas area.

So it seems that either way we go we get it wrong.

Please don’t take this the wrong way. I love the Valley Flyers and Jason has done some amazing things since he was appointed and I support what ever is done for the good of the club and field. But I think the is a double standard sometimes.

I attend most if not all of the monthly meetings and believe that I am in the minority as I fly EP.

Paul
Old 10-10-2007, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin


ORIGINAL: Kangaman

I have heard many stories from the EP side getting flak with lager planes. When they do fly from the main runway and run the pattern, they get yelled at for having a EP plane in a gas area.

Paul
Amen to that. My first plane was a hobbyzone super cub. In stock trim, it's listed at :

Specifications
Wing Span: 47.75"
Overall Length: 32.5"
Flying Weight: 25 oz (709 g)
Motor Size: 480 Power

Last i knew, 1lb = 16oz. At 25oz, that cub should be flown *only* at the pattern flight area. However, I'll bet here if i did that on any given sunday when gas guys are on the field, I'd get at least a piece of someone's mind about how / why I should stick to the electric park area with my cub. So following the rules, i'd get yelled at. For not following the rules, Jason threatens to shut down the charging station. Can't win around here, can we?
Old 10-10-2007, 03:44 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

ORIGINAL: pingooi


ORIGINAL: Kangaman

I have heard many stories from the EP side getting flak with lager planes. When they do fly from the main runway and run the pattern, they get yelled at for having a EP plane in a gas area.

Paul
Amen to that. My first plane was a hobbyzone super cub. In stock trim, it's listed at :

Specifications
Wing Span: 47.75"
Overall Length: 32.5"
Flying Weight: 25 oz (709 g)
Motor Size: 480 Power

Last i knew, 1lb = 16oz. At 25oz, that cub should be flown *only* at the pattern flight area. However, I'll bet here if i did that on any given sunday when gas guys are on the field, I'd get at least a piece of someone's mind about how / why I should stick to the electric park area with my cub. So following the rules, i'd get yelled at. For not following the rules, Jason threatens to shut down the charging station. Can't win around here, can we?

Well wait a second. Wrong is wrong. If someone is yelling at you for observing the rules, that is wrong. It does not give ANYONE the right to then either make up their own rules or break the established ones. Throwing up hands in frustration is not the way to fix things.

I was with George Finch this last week on two seperate days. Both days as we were charging things over at the station, George (on Board of VFer's) asked three seperate people, very nicely how much their obviously large plane wieghed. He did not scold or yell, but INFORMED them that they had to fly a 1lb or heavier plane from the runway. 2 of those guys shirked him off, ignored him and continued doing what they were doing. One guy was down right rude. Using VFers supplied power(!) One gent said he didn't realize , and promptly went over and used the runway , and Noone gave him any flak.

That's the way it's supposed to work.


It boils down to 3 things:

#1. RULES IS RULES. Don't like it, dont' fly. (For Electrics and Power).

#2. The Rules need to be communicated better.

#3. The problem of policing offenders. How do we do it?


Maybe at next meeting we need to get ideas about communicating the already established rules better, and then figure out a way, if possible to police those rules.

Old 10-10-2007, 04:01 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

Gentlemen
We are often our own worst enemies.
At least I would like to beleive that I have supported the electric crowd more than any other Valley Flyers administration in the past.
I have to agree with you guys that the Park Flyer area is not large enough for electric airplanes.
This is exactly why it was stricktly designated to airplanes 16 Oz or less with park flyer quality in flight charactoristics.
All others should use the runway and the standard Taxi area.These rules are there for good reasons.It maintains a safe environment for all of us to enjoy the hobby.
Being part of the minority as an electric flyer does not give you any less rights than anyone else.The rules apply to all of us equaly.
You are only obligated to comply by the park rules and not some self made rule by an rc flyer.

JasonP
www.valeyflyers.com
Old 10-10-2007, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

ORIGINAL: JasonP

Gentlemen
We are often our own worst enemies.
At least I would like to beleive that I have supported the electric crowd more than any other Valley Flyers administration in the past.
I have to agree with you guys that the Park Flyer area is not large enough for electric airplanes.
This is exactly why it was stricktly designated to airplanes 16 Oz or less with park flyer quality in flight charactoristics.
All others should use the runway and the standard Taxi area.These rules are there for good reasons.It maintains a safe environment for all of us to enjoy the hobby.
Being part of the minority as an electric flyer does not give you any less rights than anyone else.The rules apply to all of us equaly.
You are only obligated to comply by the park rules and not some self made rule by an rc flyer.

JasonP
www.valeyflyers.com
Bingo. And I'd like to add this; Hobbies are supposed to be fun. If they aren't - something is wrong. There are a lot of people at the basin. Rules are needed so we CAN have fun, and therefore the rules must be followed by all.
Old 10-10-2007, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

Here's my point - the rules MUST apply to all flyers electric and power equally however I don't believe that is the general sentiment on that field.
If they were communicated better, then we could avoid some of the issues we're seeing now. Learning the rules generally applies to the newer guys on the field but it's also the seasoned flyers who need to be reminded of the rules and respect that.
Until both sides play by the same rules with the same interpretation, no one is going to have a good time overall.

Old 10-10-2007, 04:28 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

I think most rule benders are aware of the rules but choose to ignore them.
Take ownership of your field and don't allow a few offenders make life difficult on the whole group.
The best source of enforcement is self policing of your own interest.
I have campaigned the electric guys so many times to pull together and choose a dirctor
to represent them on the board of The Valley Flyers.
We want to hear your concerns but how are we going to know them without any voice
from this group.


JasonP
www.valleflyers.com



Old 10-10-2007, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

The problem is and always has been that no matter the rules there is no authority that can enforce them. So that leaves it to those at the field who are willing to speak up and inform others as to what is acceptable. 99% of the people at the basin do not want to say anything to someone who is out of line and of the 1% half of them do not have diplomacy skills. Untill more people step up and unitedly confront the worst offenders so it becomes a matter of peer presure to comply, nothing will change.

Last i knew, 1lb = 16oz. At 25oz, that cub should be flown *only* at the pattern flight area. However, I'll bet here if i did that on any given sunday when gas guys are on the field, I'd get at least a piece of someone's mind about how / why I should stick to the electric park area with my cub. So following the rules, i'd get yelled at. For not following the rules, Jason threatens to shut down the charging station. Can't win around here, can we?
And has this ever actually happened or is it just your justification for why you continue to fly where you shouldn't? Even if some numbnuts "yells" at you for doing what you are supposed to why would that effect your behavior? Based on your logic we should bend to the will of the uninformed and give them the power to tell us what to do. Is that the kind of person you are or would you be inclined to have a calm discussion after your flight and point out your understanding of how things are supposed to be?
Old 10-10-2007, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin


ORIGINAL: Kangaman

I have heard many stories from the EP side getting flak with lager planes. When they do fly from the main runway and run the pattern, they get yelled at for having a EP plane in a gas area.

Paul
I agree with most of the original post, but I should say that I've often flown electrics from the main runway and nobody's ever given me a hard time about it. But maybe it's just that I'm less scary with a 1 lb electric plane than with a 5 lb gas plane.

For the electrics that fly from the main runway but land in the grass behind the pilots - I admit that they bug me. It's really hard on my concentration to have a plane whip past behind me.

Since we're on the topic what flies where - what are we to do with powered gliders? They're often way over 1 lb (mine's around 3 lb) but they don't seem suited for the main runway. But then, the parkflyer area is very cramped for big powered gliders, so it's not really suited, either.

. . . which is why I have a grand total of 3 flights on my powered glider. I'm okay with the idea that maybe the Basin simply isn't a good site for powered gliders.

But I'm wandering.

- Mark
Old 10-10-2007, 06:42 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

I fly 16oz-8lb electrics from the runway.
I can hoestly say no one has said a negative word to me about it.
Old 10-11-2007, 01:38 AM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

Hi Mark. I think the biggest Obstacle for glider flying is the 400' max altitude imposed by FAA.
If your glider is over 16 Oz then you are entitled to use the standard flight line.

JasonP



Old 10-11-2007, 10:44 AM
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ORIGINAL: BasinBum

And has this ever actually happened or is it just your justification for why you continue to fly where you shouldn't? Even if some numbnuts "yells" at you for doing what you are supposed to why would that effect your behavior? Based on your logic we should bend to the will of the uninformed and give them the power to tell us what to do. Is that the kind of person you are or would you be inclined to have a calm discussion after your flight and point out your understanding of how things are supposed to be?
Yes, it has happened to me on a few occasions earlier this year when i first started flying at the field. Given that I was new and did not fully understand the rules, i gave in to the guy telling me to not fly there with my cub. As time passed, i learned and understod the rules. Of course, now my main plane is a slo-stick which does weigh under 1lb.
My logic was that i respected the older / seasoned vets flying there so i listened to them thinking they were right as they have been flying there a lot longer than i have. I assumed that since they were long standing flyers, they would know / understand the rules better than a newbie like myself. However, time showed me my mistake.

Just because some people have 5000+ posts or have been around the field for years doesn't mean they actually have any intelligence for respecting the established rules.
You said based on my logic, you'd bend to the will of the uninformed and give them power to tell you what to do? Ok, do this - go to your LHS and pick up a cub. Pretend like it's your first time out with NO knowledge of the rules and fly in the pattern airspace on a crowded sunday and let some gas flyer yell at you. Let's see if you like that feeling. Don't worry about the rules and seerting authority. I just want to see how you like being yelled at. Would you be inclined to have a calm discussion after your flight with the guy who yelled at you? Would he? Takes 2 to have a conversation or are you the kind of person who would bend to other's will?
Old 10-11-2007, 11:23 AM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

Touche!

I would tell them to F-off as most here who know me would attest. After I get back to the pits I usually go and have a calm conversation but on the flight line I am a little more assertive since time and distance don't allow for normal conversation.

As for the kind of person I am.... Few who know me at the field would ever say that I shy away from talking to someone who is endangering themselves or others. I have gone out to wives with children on the flight line numerous times to explain the hazzards that their ignorant husbands are subjecting them too. I have yelled at families with kids running willy nilly through the pits. One of my favorites was when I yelled at the guy who rides the recumbant bicycle (where you lay back instead of sitting forward) as he was riding through the pits). I yelled, "HEY, WE DON'T FLY ON THE BIKE PATHS". Somes was standing there and he just shook his head and laughed.

Point is I do what I preach here. Could you imagine if every time some family with a stroller started walking through the pits and was met with 15 pilots looking up and yelling to get the heck out (which is what would happen at 99% of the fields around the country) how that would keep it from happening? What if the same thing happened when someone went to taxi a 30% plane through the pits? How about if turbine pilots actually carried a plane out 25 feet away from the pits like they are suposed to instead of starting up with a crowd standing around the plane?

Things that are considered "normal" at the basin are way out of line with the rest of the country. Nothing will change untill some kid gets sliced up by a runaway plane or hit on the flight line. Until then we will just have to accept the occasional person stepping on a plane or the noise and fumes of turbines in the pits.
Old 10-11-2007, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin


With the popularity/advancement of electrics in the past few years, maybe a 16oz limit is a bit low. I'll bet 75% of the electrics over in the electric area are over 16oz. If you adhere exactly to the current law, you would push a lot of electrics onto the flight line! On weekdays maybe not a big deal but on the weekend it would severely crowd the flight line. The more crowded the light line, the more the odds increase for an accident to happen....thus, increased danger....
Old 10-11-2007, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin


ORIGINAL: outssider


With the popularity/advancement of electrics in the past few years, maybe a 16oz limit is a bit low. I'll bet 75% of the electrics over in the electric area are over 16oz. If you adhere exactly to the current law, you would push a lot of electrics onto the flight line! On weekdays maybe not a big deal but on the weekend it would severely crowd the flight line. The more crowded the light line, the more the odds increase for an accident to happen....thus, increased danger....

Popularity or crowding certainly doesn't lessen the physical effects of a 3 lb plane with blades hitting you unconcious. Crowding means wait your turn, not pretend it is safe to break the rules. The flight line is where your supposed to be if you're over 1 lb...period. Heck, I'll always wait my turn for safety , and if it's too crowded, I just won't fly.

The lb rule is there for a reason. Everyone here knows it. It's real simple, spread the word , follow the rules, then we all have fun.
Old 10-11-2007, 05:24 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin


ORIGINAL: BasinBum

the noise and fumes of turbines in the pits.
Is there a better sound and smell? I THINK NOT!
Old 10-12-2007, 03:07 AM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

I thought I was the only one who sprayed Powermax under my arms in the morning.

Basinbum, next time you take the wife out for a romantic dinner.......splash a little kerosene on you face after you shave.......chicks dig it!!!!


P.S. Why don't you stop playing " Old Yankee Workshop" over there, making your granny chairs, and get out to the field and fly something. Come on, with the weather cooling down and the wind picking up, it will be just like old times.

CYA, Billy
Old 10-12-2007, 08:50 AM
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Is that what you splash on top of your head after you shave? I have a show coming up on Nov.2,3,4 and have a lot to do to be ready (like build one more chair). I do need to at least charge up a foamy and get back out there but as for building, that urge is filled up right now. I know "rocking chair' makes you think of Grandma but if you saw or sat in one of mine you would realize that it aint granny's rocking chair anymore.
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Old 10-12-2007, 02:10 PM
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Billy, Here are some photos of the Beaver and its new friends. Shes all set for the lake next weekend..
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Old 10-12-2007, 05:50 PM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

Very nice, she cleans up well. Have fun with her.

CYA Billy

P.S. Do you really need all that hose on the pool cleaner? Just playing, mine gets tangled too.
Old 10-12-2007, 08:47 PM
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Wow! Richard, that is truly baddass! I have told some folks about your show and got your post card. A production designer and a decorator, her and I may be coming.
Hope some time we can fly together again.



Incredible work my friend!

joe
Old 10-13-2007, 07:39 AM
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Default RE: Sepulveda Basin

Where do you fly theses at? I'd love to check this out.
I don't have any ready with floats but I'd love to come up and photograph your flights.

wonder if I could mod a pattern ship to fly well of the water? hmmmmm


Mike R

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