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Sepulveda Basin

Old 05-30-2019, 11:15 AM
  #9051  
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This is very upsetting. Being my home field for more than half of my life and some very good friends still fly there, it really sucks to see this. Sadly we all know that this was going to become a problem and we have been fighting the battles for many years.

For the suites to come out and observe, i would assume it was another complaint by overflying aircraft and they new it was an event so they where sent out. FAA has full jurisdiction over airspace and if its a risk to manned aircraft safety they can act as needed. The Marshal or Ranger was most likely there as its a park and he has the jurisdiction to close it down.

I'm so sorry to hear this and hope that it gets rectified quickly so y'all can get back to this SAFE, EDUCATIONAL, AND GREAT HOBBY.
Old 05-30-2019, 11:15 AM
  #9052  
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Originally Posted by F16Jeff View Post
So fast forward to today, just in total shock to find out the gate is pad locked and sign saying the FAA closed the field.
>
Who said the gate was locked today with an "FAA" sign?

Last edited by mr_matt; 05-30-2019 at 11:18 AM.
Old 05-30-2019, 11:21 AM
  #9053  
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Originally Posted by robotfan View Post


How do two random Government Cogs, excuse me “FAA Representatives” (you know, ‘we’re from the government - we’re here to help...’) show up and arbitrarily change the Federal Law from a 400-foot altitude ceiling, down to a 250-foot ceiling, with just a snap of their fingers?!?! And also make sideways changes to the edge-boundaries of the flying area? I would really like to know what tool / device / instrument they brought along to measure the altitude of the high-speed miniature aircraft they were observing. Did anyone see them measuring flight altitude? Did they verify those measurements? Did they even bring a device? Or try to measure? Or was it just an intimidation tactic...

another 2-cents

Paul
Read the recently released FAA guidance. 400 feet is ONLY in uncontrolled Class G airspace. In Controlled airspace, like where the basin is, you are restricted to what the UASFM maps show for your gird. The Basin is in a ZERO altitude grid, so technically the FAA did them a favor.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_fliers/

https://faa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/web...06ebf6a06754ad
Old 05-30-2019, 11:24 AM
  #9054  
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With the new rules the Basin was on borrowed time. FAA recently said that flying fields within 2 miles of a controlled airport could not fly. They also say that fields in controlled airspace are subject to the altitudes shown on the UASFM map.

The basin is 1.5 miles and in a zero altitude grid.
Old 05-30-2019, 11:48 AM
  #9055  
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Rumors of the field being completely closed are untrue,, I just got off the phone with my Buddy, he was there 10 minutes ago,, guys were flying foamies,, they say they were told they could only fly park flyers, under 8oz,,

No closed signs, no nothing official from the parks department, the city or the FAA was posted anywhere
Old 05-30-2019, 12:21 PM
  #9056  
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me View Post
Rumors of the field being completely closed are untrue,, I just got off the phone with my Buddy, he was there 10 minutes ago,, guys were flying foamies,, they say they were told they could only fly park flyers, under 8oz,,

No closed signs, no nothing official from the parks department, the city or the FAA was posted anywhere
A fellow flyer from Simi Valley Flyers was out there yesterday and the field was pad locked with a sign saying it was closed. I do not have any reason to believe he would make this up since he was there to fly. If it has been reopened since, then that occured and I have not been made aware of it. Also San Fernando Flyers has changed their front page notice from field being closed to open for aircraft 8oz or less.

This is always subject to change since many folks are working hard to get some sort of an agreement.

Jeff
Old 05-30-2019, 12:29 PM
  #9057  
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Well, I'm not calling your buddy a liar, My buddy is also one of your club members,, his name is Buddy,, maybe you know him,, he and I have been friends for 26 years,, he stopped by on his way home from work around 12:30 your time,,

Hope it all works out
Old 05-30-2019, 01:00 PM
  #9058  
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me View Post
Well, I'm not calling your buddy a liar, My buddy is also one of your club members,, his name is Buddy,, maybe you know him,, he and I have been friends for 26 years,, he stopped by on his way home from work around 12:30 your time,,

Hope it all works out
Yes, I know Buddy. He is the one who provided the info about the field being locked and closed with the FAA sign on the gate yesterday. I did not get info direct from Buddy, but another member who flies with us at both fields. I consider both sources reliable and neither would say it was closed if it was not.
I appreciate your input and we all need to work together no matter if we are local or not. This is just the first field that I am aware of that is being scrutinized at this time. I am sure there will be others and since are numbers are dwindling, we need to stick together as much as possible.

Jeff
Old 05-30-2019, 01:28 PM
  #9059  
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Well, there was a lot of I was told by someone else that was told by someone else going around yesterday aka double hearsay,, This is the first first hand account I know and trust,

Also, I called the Park Ranger hotline this morning,, they knew nothing about a closer,, you'd think they would have known,, but who knows

It
Old 05-30-2019, 01:37 PM
  #9060  
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Yes Tom, you are getting the picture :-)
Old 05-30-2019, 02:12 PM
  #9061  
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me View Post
Well, there was a lot of I was told by someone else that was told by someone else going around yesterday aka double hearsay,, This is the first first hand account I know and trust,

Also, I called the Park Ranger hotline this morning,, they knew nothing about a closer,, you'd think they would have known,, but who knows

It
I agree about the rumors. That is why when I post, I try my best to use reliable sources. Not into propagating false information. There is enough of that going around.

On Saturday, there were all kinds of information going around, mostly inaccurate. There were things said that even included the club president wanting to announce the field was closed after LA Jets was over. Thank goodness a couple of members persuaded him not to do that.

I am happy to hear it is not closed. Now hopefully they can agree on altitude and aircraft size. I have some planes to fly.

Thank you again for your input.

Jeff

Last edited by F16Jeff; 05-30-2019 at 02:20 PM.
Old 05-30-2019, 02:19 PM
  #9062  
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FWIW AMA says they are in talks right now about the Basin and they have not heard anything from their FAA contacts about closing the field.
Old 05-30-2019, 02:39 PM
  #9063  
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
FWIW AMA says they are in talks right now about the Basin and they have not heard anything from their FAA contacts about closing the field.
Thank you for the information. Lets hope the AMA can clear this up.

Jeff
Old 05-30-2019, 04:25 PM
  #9064  
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If all that is currently allowed are electric foamies under 8 oz, then that in effect has closed the field. Hopefully the main runway and heavier than 8 oz models will be allowed again soon. What about the U-control pads?
Old 05-30-2019, 04:48 PM
  #9065  
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Originally Posted by Kmot View Post
If all that is currently allowed are electric foamies under 8 oz, then that in effect has closed the field. Hopefully the main runway and heavier than 8 oz models will be allowed again soon. What about the U-control pads?

U-control has never been under FAA control. Neither has free flight.
Old 05-30-2019, 05:14 PM
  #9066  
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I have heard that the VP for Valley Flyers has a meeting scheduled with Van Nuys airport to work out an agreement. Also it has been mentioned that AMA is involved as well.

At this point no agency has confirmed or claimed they closed the field and until otherwise notified pilots are still flying.

If I receive new information from reliable sources then I will update. Until then I will continue to monitor and plan to fly on Sunday.

Jeff

Last edited by F16Jeff; 05-30-2019 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Misspelling
Old 05-30-2019, 05:54 PM
  #9067  
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The field is NOT closed. The gates were open today and some were flying. Hope this gets sorted out soon.
Old 05-30-2019, 06:26 PM
  #9068  
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Okay a lot of hearsay flying around so I felt obligated to post with my first hand experience and knowledge.

I personally flew in the LA Jets event this past Saturday the 25th. There was indeed two FAA representatives that showed up at this event. They did wear legit looking badges identifying themselves as FAA officials. They told us quite directly, and without any ambiguity whatsoever, that it was in fact no longer legal for us to fly at the basin based on the current legislation enacted by congress. The reason for this is clearly laid out in the 2018 FAA Re-authorization Act of 2018 which requires authorization to fly any UAS within controlled airspace. The basin is well within KVNY's (Van Nuys Airport's) Class D controlled airspace. This is further confirmed by the following FAA memo:

Click image for larger version

Name:	FAA.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	70.5 KB
ID:	2264290

However, LA Jets was still allowed to take place due to a temporary authorization that was granted for the event and for the LA Jets event only. Part of the stipulations of this temporary event authorization was we had to fly within a 250ft ceiling. We were told that this ceiling was determined by some kind of calculation based on the climb out performance of a twin engine aircraft losing an engine on take off out of KVNY and keeping models clear of their airspace during the limited performance climb out. I don't know anything about the legitimacy of this methodology, and how it's codified into law, but this is what the FAA reps told us.

We were also told to tighten up our flight boundaries, especially on the north side of the field. During pilot registration every registering pilot had to fill out and SIGN a form that required your name, signature, and FAA UAS registration number.

As you can imagine attendees were quite disgruntled during the pilot meeting about the new flight restrictions and FAA presence. However, after everyone cooled off from the initial shell shock, most people still signed up and flew their planes and Anthony still put on a fantastic event thanks to tremendous effort and planning on his part. Much thanks to you again Anthony.

Now, after the pilot meeting was over I took the time to speak directly 1 on 1 with these two FAA reps with some other flyers standing next to me listening in. They again clarified to me the purpose behind the 250ft ceiling (the single engine climb out calculation described above) and also REAFFIRMED the fact that it was indeed no longer legal to fly at the basin without authorization. Both the reps were quite chill and somewhat apologetic and they did not go out of their way to hassle us. Nobody was asked to show their FAA reg card and no models were scrutinized for FAA reg markings (as far as I'm aware). They suggested we work on getting a site authorization the way many other AMA fields within controlled airspace have already received. I know that Jason and the Valley Flyers are working hard with the FAA and AMA on getting this.

Here is a list of AMA flying sites that have already been granted site authorizations within controlled airspace:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational...blication.xlsx

The unfortunate thing about this list is that there are now set boundary limitations and altitude limitations as low as 100ft AGL. I'm guessing that the low 100ft altitude limit some of these fields were given are also based on some kind of manned aircraft emergency climb out performance limitation. So I'm guessing that IF the basin gets granted a site authorization (like we're all crossing out fingers for) it will likely require similar new limitations as these other fields on the list have. LIkely a 250ft or lower new operating ceiling (based on the what I'm seeing with other fields on this list).

Due to all of the above going on the Valley Flyers have advised members not to fly at the field until an agreement is reached with the FAA. They are trying to keep up good faith relations with the FAA to maximize the chances of reaching an agreement and keeping the field operational.

After reading this thread earlier today and reading about a locked gate I took the time to visit the field today. I can confirm that the gate was open as usual and I saw no notes or signs. There was 1 person actively flying off the main runway and a couple of planes in the pits. There were also people with planes in the park flyer section. The field did seem like kind of a ghost town but that's not that unusual for a midweek day.

I've been flying at the basin since 1991 when Ray Davis RIP taught me to fly RC when I was just 11 years old. I've been flying here for most of my life. KVNY is the busiest general aviation airport in the country and we have never had an incident with a full scale aircraft (as far as I'm aware) over half a century of co-operation. Most of us fly with spotters and we always go way out of our way to stay well clear of any manned aircraft. So yes the news and recent developments are indeed devastating. Hopefully this all gets resolved in short order.

Last edited by z06kal; 05-30-2019 at 06:44 PM.
Old 05-30-2019, 09:20 PM
  #9069  
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FWIW, here is what the FAA published a couple of days ago:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_fliers/

And here is the database in map form

https://faa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/web...06ebf6a06754ad
Old 05-31-2019, 08:14 AM
  #9070  
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
U-control has never been under FAA control. Neither has free flight.
Of course not. I was referring to the alleged "locked gate".
Old 05-31-2019, 08:31 AM
  #9071  
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Originally Posted by Kmot View Post
Of course not. I was referring to the alleged "locked gate".
Got it. I thought you were referring to the FAA rules.
Old 05-31-2019, 07:43 PM
  #9072  
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I started flying there sometime in 1981 in the good ol' days. I'm hoping they get a deal like the 250' ceiling as i am allergic to foam. My 40 and 60 size bipes would be very happy. And z06kal I knew Ray but for the last 5 years was out of touch , could you let me know details ?
Old 06-01-2019, 03:49 AM
  #9073  
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Originally Posted by z06kal View Post
Okay a lot of hearsay flying around so I felt obligated to post with my first hand experience and knowledge.

I personally flew in the LA Jets event this past Saturday the 25th. There was indeed two FAA representatives that showed up at this event. They did wear legit looking badges identifying themselves as FAA officials. They told us quite directly, and without any ambiguity whatsoever, that it was in fact no longer legal for us to fly at the basin based on the current legislation enacted by congress. The reason for this is clearly laid out in the 2018 FAA Re-authorization Act of 2018 which requires authorization to fly any UAS within controlled airspace. The basin is well within KVNY's (Van Nuys Airport's) Class D controlled airspace. This is further confirmed by the following FAA memo:

Attachment 2264290

However, LA Jets was still allowed to take place due to a temporary authorization that was granted for the event and for the LA Jets event only. Part of the stipulations of this temporary event authorization was we had to fly within a 250ft ceiling. We were told that this ceiling was determined by some kind of calculation based on the climb out performance of a twin engine aircraft losing an engine on take off out of KVNY and keeping models clear of their airspace during the limited performance climb out. I don't know anything about the legitimacy of this methodology, and how it's codified into law, but this is what the FAA reps told us.

We were also told to tighten up our flight boundaries, especially on the north side of the field. During pilot registration every registering pilot had to fill out and SIGN a form that required your name, signature, and FAA UAS registration number.

As you can imagine attendees were quite disgruntled during the pilot meeting about the new flight restrictions and FAA presence. However, after everyone cooled off from the initial shell shock, most people still signed up and flew their planes and Anthony still put on a fantastic event thanks to tremendous effort and planning on his part. Much thanks to you again Anthony.

Now, after the pilot meeting was over I took the time to speak directly 1 on 1 with these two FAA reps with some other flyers standing next to me listening in. They again clarified to me the purpose behind the 250ft ceiling (the single engine climb out calculation described above) and also REAFFIRMED the fact that it was indeed no longer legal to fly at the basin without authorization. Both the reps were quite chill and somewhat apologetic and they did not go out of their way to hassle us. Nobody was asked to show their FAA reg card and no models were scrutinized for FAA reg markings (as far as I'm aware). They suggested we work on getting a site authorization the way many other AMA fields within controlled airspace have already received. I know that Jason and the Valley Flyers are working hard with the FAA and AMA on getting this.

Here is a list of AMA flying sites that have already been granted site authorizations within controlled airspace:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational...blication.xlsx

The unfortunate thing about this list is that there are now set boundary limitations and altitude limitations as low as 100ft AGL. I'm guessing that the low 100ft altitude limit some of these fields were given are also based on some kind of manned aircraft emergency climb out performance limitation. So I'm guessing that IF the basin gets granted a site authorization (like we're all crossing out fingers for) it will likely require similar new limitations as these other fields on the list have. LIkely a 250ft or lower new operating ceiling (based on the what I'm seeing with other fields on this list).

Due to all of the above going on the Valley Flyers have advised members not to fly at the field until an agreement is reached with the FAA. They are trying to keep up good faith relations with the FAA to maximize the chances of reaching an agreement and keeping the field operational.

After reading this thread earlier today and reading about a locked gate I took the time to visit the field today. I can confirm that the gate was open as usual and I saw no notes or signs. There was 1 person actively flying off the main runway and a couple of planes in the pits. There were also people with planes in the park flyer section. The field did seem like kind of a ghost town but that's not that unusual for a midweek day.

I've been flying at the basin since 1991 when Ray Davis RIP taught me to fly RC when I was just 11 years old. I've been flying here for most of my life. KVNY is the busiest general aviation airport in the country and we have never had an incident with a full scale aircraft (as far as I'm aware) over half a century of co-operation. Most of us fly with spotters and we always go way out of our way to stay well clear of any manned aircraft. So yes the news and recent developments are indeed devastating. Hopefully this all gets resolved in short order.
Thanks for some facts, I too flew with Ray and the Basin Bums in the 90's, Hopefully a compromise can be reached out there

Good luck
Old 06-01-2019, 07:26 AM
  #9074  
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And then a guy on another forum posted this:

I received the following message from the Valley Flyers;

Effective May 24th 2019 the FAA suspended operations at the Apollo Field pending review of the local airspace and operating procedures. The club, Department of Park & Recreations, AMA and the FAA are working together to resolve this matter. Please do not fly UAS (drones, fixed wing model airplanes or Helicopters) until this matter is resolved. Failure to comply could jeopardize our ability to reopen the field.


This is the message on their website as well.
Old 06-02-2019, 11:52 AM
  #9075  
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