Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

I know this is going to bring down the wrath of our American cousins but here in Aussie we have been paying throught the "nose" for hobby equiqment for too many years. The norm was to buy a US product here, the cost would be around double the US marked price. This has now changed and with the Australian $ and US$ around parity and China on our doorstop, our prices are now better than US.
I make no qualms about loyalty to the LHS, I have paid my dues many times over.Service and back-up!!. I've been lucky in 60 years(yes 60 years of modelling) I've had very little reason to return faulty items and in the case of Chinese, none at all with over 50 orders to HobbyKing. I check carefully with the comments, don't order items on back order,postage is fair,packing is exceptional,quality in all cases as expected, no incorrect or missing items and price-fantastic.We hear, from unnamed sources, of "slave" labour, low wages and back-yard factories. Have a look at some of the web sites showing multi-storied modern factories, state of the art equiqment, highly skilled staff both in manual labour and design.Maybe clever photo-editing!!!!

Another example, HobbyKing sell some items "Made in USA". These items cost less from HobbyKing than US Hobby Shops.

I recently decided to give glow motors a miss and go back to petrol(gas) and checked over the Chinese sources. I turned up SDS Hobbies and Cyclone Toy Co. Both appear to be of the same, SDS Hobbies the retail internet outlet of Cyclone Toy (I think). SDS advertise their prices, Cyclone Toy, you get a quote, but both turn up with the same price. I think Cyclone Toy may also be a manufacturer. I took a gamble and ordered a 30cc.Sbach not knowing of what quality it may be. It was perfect, couldn't be faulted.Cost $220.00. freight $90.00. I noted this model was slightly different to other club members models, so assume there are more than one manufacturre of the same design. I ordered a MXS, again perfect, same price but again could see this was of a different manufacturer than the Sbach. For a comparison of prices, I recently brought the discontinued Great Planes ARF Venus 40. I wanted it for an electric conversion.It is only a very average ARF, great design.Cost $260.00 plus freight $40.00 from only 80 miles away.Carton 1/5 size of the Chinese product.

It's therefore a gamble but maybe all the "not so good" manufacturers have ceased operation due to lack of sales. OK they show liitle loyalty to their dealers. The dealers know this. The LHS have removed the kit labels to try and stop you from contacting the factory and buying direct.

I must now comment on my service from SDS Hobby. Immediately on making a payment to them via PayPal, I receive an automated email confirmation of their receipt of funds and a order No. Within 2 (TWO) hours, I receive another email advising that the order is being processed. Within another TWO hours, I receive another email advising the order has been picked up by ESM, quoting ESM tracking No. So far four orders have all arrived within 4 days from China to Australia. Maybe luck? I don't thing so. I think we have to realise that the more expensive need not be the best. The World markets have changed. Aeromodelling is only a crumb in the mixture but at last we have joined the Game.

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

I agree with misterv that the game has changed. Having lived in one of the colonies myself I also had to deal with outrageous costs to get US made hobby stuff. I used to get get my goods from Hong Kong, Taiwan and Japan direct for much less than US-based suppliers. Local dealers always asked me who will do the support? I do it myself.

I now live in the US and have experienced the superior support here. Yeah, right. Less aggravating and cheaper just to do it myself. Now I often order stuff from outside the US, but do due dilligence on who I do business with. The hobby has never been cheaper and products are getting better as the buyers realize who is who and avoid supporting the bad products/manufacturers.

Bliksem

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

yeah,i agree with u .

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

The game has really changed. We live in a small town, and a small island province and we have only one small LHS and it is 800 Km from where I live.
Over the years I have dealt with Tower in the USA, and Great Hobbies here in Canada, only because I did not have any other choices. For the past several years I have been dealing with the Chinese and the service is very good. Today I received a parcel from Hobby King in Hong Kong that was posted to me on Nov. 27/10, 5 days ago. Now that is service. I do not love all of their merchandise, but most of what I buy; I research carefully, read all of the reviews and hope for the best. I have 3 Chinese gas engines, all with RCXel ignition and they run very well. I have also tried out many of their wood props and I like them too.. Yes the game has changed, and I live it. I still buy from Tower and Great Hobbies, but more and more from Hobby King.

All the best


Mike

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

[link=http://www.hobbyhot.com/]:D[/link] yes, i agree too

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

Chicom products fill a niche but there are much better choices than Hobby King in my opinion. Things are good using them as long as there are no problems. Once there is a problem HK typically can't carry the ball let alone drop it. Other chicom vendors,while not carrying as much as HK, outshines them in customer service.

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

Unfortunately for manufacturers and hobby shops here in the USA, people hold Hobby King to a different standard. If a customer buys a product that I manufacture and has the slightest perceived problem with it, he will be on the phone or on my doorstep in 2 hours demanding satisfaction. Same goes for items we import and sell at a discount. We were selling our batteries for less than Hobby King for a while but it got to the point where we had to replace so many batteries because of people misusing them that we started losing money and had to raise prices. Hobby King doesn't have to deal with customer service because they are untouchable by customers, regulation, consumer groups etc. Sure they have bad feedback and angry customers all over the web and all over the world but in this day and age, perception and price is king. There are enough people out there who claim that Hobby King products are the best quality for the lowest prices that new people in the hobby start to believe it without even experiencing anything else. While some people are happy with the Hobby King experience, truth is that most people are getting screwed under the guise of low prices - they are just to inexperienced in the hobby to realize it!

I really find it odd that people can place 50 orders from a Chinese company and never have a problem or defective item, when I constantly order and test Chinese products and find that many of them don't work as advertised or break in short order. I would say that placing that many orders without a single issue is a 1 in 1,000,000 chance. Even though I read such reports every now and again, I personally don't know anyone who has that kind of luck with Hobby King. If that truly was the case, I would be ordering all my products from them in container loads and selling it at a huge profit. I would never have to worry about returns, angry customers or defective products. My business would transform from selling, servicing, training and problem solving to simply walking in the door selling products that I know will never be defective and leaving with a big load of cash in my pocket every night!

As it stands now, Hobby King, Exceed RC, Hobby Partz, etc. have been great for my business. People walk into the store daily with broken motors, burnt up speed controllers, defective helicopters, dead cell/puffed batteries, etc. and think nothing about paying a little extra for a quality product, warranty and good service. If they don't buy a new one, they usually pay me to fix the broken stuff!

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

I agree misterv,

But then again where are the AU RC products?

I sure there has to be some but I've never seen anything over here from AU.

Can you post some links to some AU gear?

You guys have any brands like Slimline, Du-Bro, Bisson, Sullivan, Macs, Great Planes, Graupner?

Is there an AU RC engine?

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

I prefer to spend the premium up front and not have to worry about whether it will work or not, whether it will even get to me or not, all that stuff.

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

"Is there an AU RC engine?" I don't know if there is an Australian engine anymore. There used to be a Taipan that was fairly good in the 1970's. Gordon Burford I think was behind it. About half way between a Supertiger and a Rossi at the time. Ya everything is imported for some countries, even mine. The chinese stuff is like the old Japanese stuff. They are improving though too. At some point their money's true value will put them out of business or at least change things for sure. Maybe they will demand $3 or $5 an hour some day. Just as the 'developed ' world seems to be getting closer to that wage. I had OK luck on two deals with them. Hobbypartz and Bidproducts. (Bidproducts was slow but I was aware of this in the beginning.) Sometimes it is better to touch and feel things at a LHS and support them enough to at least keep them there for emergencies.
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RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

1. I bought several Flightpower LiPo packs from Tower, and their proprietary cell balancer. The cell balancer never did work properly, always bailing out before the packs reached a full charge. Of the packs that I purchased, only one is still any good, probably because I haven't really used it in anything. The rest had to be trashed.

2. I bought several Rimfire outrunner motors from Tower. I quit buying them when I discovered that they work fine only if you never load them more than about 50% of what Tower claims they will take. If you get anywhere near what they claim is the maximum continuous wattage, they literally melt down.

3. I bought two Flightpower 60A ESCs from Tower. One is coupled to a Rimfire 32, and works fine. The other is with a Rimfire 25, and I have to be careful not to open the throttle too quickly when the pack is fresh, or it has a timing issue with the 25 and the motor quits. It also likes to "forget" the settings that I've programmed into it. I use a telemetry system to monitor pack condition during flight, and I would prefer to disable the battery protection functions in the ESCs, but Flightpower doesn't have that option.

Starting last year I purchased a Turnigy 46 outrunner from Hobby King, a Turnigy ESC, a Quanum telemetry system, and a host of Turnigy and Zippy LiPo packs. Wanna know how much trouble I've had with any of those items? Wanna know how much trouble I've had with HK's customer service?

Most of the stuff we buy is made in Asia anyway. Why pay inflated prices for it, particularly if it's no damn good?

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

If you don't have trouble with a HK order or product then you won't have problems with their customer service ! :)

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

I think you're right on that one. I'm careful to read all the reviews and stay away from anything that's questionable. And I won't ever have anything except O.S. two stroke engines.

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

You probably purchased all that stuff from Tower because you are used to ordering from them due to the fact that they always provide a lower price in other areas of the hobby. Rimfire and Flightpower have never really been known for making a quality product (they simply put a lot of money into marketing). If you would have taken that money and purchased a motor from E-flite, Hacker, AXI, Scorpion, etc. along with Hyperion batteries and Jeti, E-Flite or even Great Planes controllers, you would have been assured a well tested, durable setup. Either way, I hope you called Tower and returned those items for a refund because that is what you paid for.

While it's true that most of the electric components sold by these companies are made in Asia, they are not the same product as Hobby King and others are selling, even though they may look the same. There are many different manufacturers and grades of batteries out there, no matter what people try to tell you. If you are getting 2100mAh 3 cell for $10.00, you are not buying a top of the line battery. Most quality manufacturers in China wholesale that size battery for about $16.00-$20.00. People get sucked into buying a battery based only on price. What you really should be looking at is your cost per flight. You may pay $30.00 for a Hyperion, but that battery will likely last you for 300 flights as opposed to a $10.00 battery that, if you are lucky, may last you 40 flights (or may not be usable at all).

With brushless motors, there are many considerations; quality of the magnets, bearings, wire, adhesive that holds the magnets, etc. Unlike batteries, most motors I have tested will run for a while but as soon as they have some wear (or one hot run), the bearings or the adhesive will begin to break down and the problems will start. Not to mention that it is very difficult to find parts for them (such as mounts, shafts, etc.). When you purchase a quality motor, you are not only getting a quality control, thoroughly tested motor but you are also getting replacment parts availability, technical support and a warranty.

There are so many different grades of speed controllers that it boggles the mind. Some use low priced FETs that easily overheat and don't hold up under any stress at all, others have bad solder joints, bad timing, etc. Some have programming that actually works, and others do not. We have been importing ESCs for about 6 years and we have to test every controller before it leaves. Even our supplier has a 10% defect rate and they are considered one of the best in China. Most others I have tested have a 30-40% defect rate. Even the controllers we sell don't stay as cool as well as controllers from Jeti or Castle but we use cheaper components in order to keep within our target price range. When it comes to ESCs, there are always tradeoffs - nothing is free!

Think of it this way; if all Chinese made products really were the same quality, no matter the price, wouldn't Hobby King still have a good reputation in the industry?

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

misterv , we tend to forget how lucky we are to have had so many large hobby distributors here in the States, it's easy to forget that not everyone in the world had that benefit.

I too buy from Chinese vendors for certain things if the prices are much better and the quality seems good. I have found several really good Chinese hobby suppliers that provide great service. It's no secret that I dislike Hobby King not because they are Chinese but because their mistakes with orders and lack of customer service have become legendary, not to mention the fact that their business practices are dispicable. There are plenty of Chinese vendors who provide excellent service, as you discovered with SDS Hobby, and prices as good or better than Hobby King. Thank you for tip, I have added them to my contact list.

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

I can agree with a lot of what's been said here, but no where near all of it.

I have purchased so many unreliable, over priced products from American distributors in the past 10 years that I'm very skeptical of their ability to provide quality stuff.

Heat guns and covering irons come to mind. Boy are they junk, and it doesn't matter whether you get Tower's or Horizon's. I can't even get one big airplane covering job out of a heat gun.

My 2 year old Tower tachometer quit today. That's inexcusable as it sits in a box and doesn't do anything most of the time. Maybe gets used a dozen times a year for a minute, max.

As long as an item gets good reviews and is reasonably priced, I'm buyin it. I've had my fill of getting ripped off by distributors with good reputations.

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

You can buy the heat guns and covering irons from China for less money but unfortunately the quality won't be any better since that's where they come from anyway. The good thing about Tower and Horizon is they stand behind their products and will ( or at least should have) replaced your defective tools if indeed you only got one use out of them, I guarantee you no Chinese vendor will do that. In any case, the big US distributors sell higher quality components pretty much across the board. You can get cheap stuff from them but I wouldn't since I can get cheap stuff overseas for less money.

I really have to wonder how you got ripped off by Tower or Horizon because I never have in twenty five years and don't know anyone who was ripped off by either one of them. I suppose if you crash and try to send a busted crash damaged part back for replacement you might feel that way if they said no but I have seen them replace crashed parts so I find your claim hard to swallow.

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

There's no mystery to it- I get a heat gun in January 2010, use it to make a minor repair to an airplane, then start another airplane that takes a year to complete, and the heat gun dies in the middle of covering it and it's now out of warranty.

I agree that Tower is very good about replacing/refunding for stuff that fails within the warranty.

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

The heat gun discussion reminds me of my friend who worked in China for a couple years. He established a relationship with one of the ARF manufacturers, and bought several planes and many spinners and other things to resell here in the states.

I bought two of those planes, neither was particularly notable. I was able to fix the stuff that was wrong with them.

This friend described the working conditions and personnel who were making the ARFs. In particular, he described one pleasant young lady, sitting in a clean environment, ironing covering on completed airframes, day after day, using a clothes iron.

My first plane was a Tower "Sturdy Birdy", the only covering required was the foam wing, which I covered in TowerKote using my clothes iron. Not sure why I bought the smaller covering irons at a later date...

Anyway, clean factory, suitable tools, cheerful people, eye witness. Interesting.

Dave Olson

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

...

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

You have to keep in mind the tool that you are using is a low quality knock off of a higher quality industrial grade tool.

Now I didn't use the word cheap because some times we pay more for our hobby stuff than you would pay if you bought it somewhere else. Or had bought a high quality industrial grade tool instead of a low quality but higher priced hobby grade one.

Here is an example.

Box of 25 Hobbico "glue" syringes $44.99
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGGG8&P=7

Notice name on barrel is not Hobbico but "Monoject 412"

Now here is what your dentist pays for a box of 50 Monoject 412's
https://www.safcodental.com/Directio...Y.html?ref=cat

Half price and twice as many. So really 1/4 of what we pay Hobbico.

Now the hobby sealing irons we use are low quality copies of "mat irons" or "tacking irons" we use in photography.

If you are sick of you hobby irons not lasting then buy a high quality one.
http://www.amazon.com/Bienfang-Seal-.../dp/B00009R69F

Yes $169.95 for a sealing iron. However you only need to buy one of these in your lifetime rather than 10 or 15 of the $20 ones.

I have however been using my Coverite 21st Century Sealing Iron for close to 20 years now. I think I bought it in 93' or 94'

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXB361&P=ML

So if they have keep the quality up over the years then this $30 iron may just fit the bill without investing in an $170 one.

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

Looking through a 1971 RCM mag, I saw this ad in the back.

I wonder if anyone knew at the time how Hong Kong would dominate the hobby 40 years later?

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

OMG!

...and they are still here today!

http://www.radarrc.com/index_eng.php

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

I think it all depends. Artificially low prices are not the greatest idea - people working hard in crappy conditions and getting paid very little, so a country can export tons of goods at artificially low prices to boost the economic growth of that country...

I don't like paying a lot of money for something that should cost less. I do appreciate companies like Castle Creations - they aim high at making things right - either by replacing faulty electronics, or offering great service to help with setup while I'm on the flight line.

RE: Chinese Hobby Shops.
 

I agree that CC is a class act when it comes to customer service. I just read on another site about a guy who received a motor from a Chinese vendor that would not turn. He had to open it up and clear away some epoxy to get it to turn. No problem except whe he went to mount it there were no threads in the mounting holes. This is the kind of poor QC that comes with low prices, low quality and no service. It doesn't take genius to figure out what a losing proposition that is.