Safety Violations
 

As the 'Safety Coordinator' for our club and due to recent repeat offenders I'm looking into creating a penalty system for those who violate the safety regulations set forth in AMA/Our Clubs field guidelines, constitution and bylaws. I was wondering if any other clubs out there have similar penalty systems in place.

example, first offense a verbal/written warning, second offense a monetary fine, third offense temporary suspension, further offenses result in a banning from the club, etc.........


any input is welcome.

RE: Safety Violations
 

I agree there should be ramifications for violating ama rules and such. verble & written, and suspension if needed. At some point they would hve to get the point.... However, me personally, If my club wanted a monitary fine I would tell them to pack sand !!!! A club of any kind should not allow such fines.. My opinion only of course.. Peer pressure would normally take care of these things. unless you got a real nut case out there, and if you do, he needs to just go away.

Good luck,

Dan M.

RE: Safety Violations
 

that doesn't work with the 'Old Timers' who think they've been flying for 50+ yrs and they've forgot more about RC then some people will ever learn...............one of those is probably our most unsafe flier in the club. we even had a long time flier shoot down another guys plane today, he's the tight pocketbook type and while he stepped up and paid the guy for the plane, i assure you it wasn't easy for him to come off that much cash with nothing to show for it.

RE: Safety Violations
 

I know exactly what you mean.. We have had our share of those as well. I hope I live long enough to have to hang it up from being an old fart !!!!! One of the funniest things I saw at our field years ago was one of the old timers like you described, went out to fly a hand launch plane and he threw the transmitter instead of the plane !!!!!! I was in tears and pee'd my pants I was laughing so hard !!!:D..
Oh well, as long as nobody gets hurt or damages someone elses stuff, you got to laugh !!!!

later !!

Dan M.

RE: Safety Violations
 

Given that it is getting harder and harder to keep and maintain fields, good people and good clubs need to keep stupid people and stupid things from happening. I agree with others that through due process (IE several witnesses and the offender are given an opportunity to explain themselves) the logical sense would be to serve verbal/written notice for first offense. The offense should have a calendar limit so as to give the offender the opportunity to expunge his/her record. If a second offense were to pop up within the calendar period of the first offense then suspension of flight privileges for several weeks would be justified. At that level the club officers, and chief pilot should convene and have an open discussion with the individuals involved to ensure that again due process has been followed with affected parties have a fair opportunity to explain themselves and voice what infractions have been violated. Given the severity of the issue and the offenders remorse should be taken in consideration of punishment issued. At this level of punishment the offense again should be given a calendar date to allow the offender to have the issue expunged from his record and allow him to clear himself. Obviously at this level the time frame should be pretty strict. For the third offense, the individual clearly has demonstrated that he/her doesn't care about individuals safety, safety of the club and/or the community where the club is located. Again the club officers and all individuals involved should convene and discuss the offense. The individual should be given the opportunity to speak and explain his/her action. A review of prior offenses explained and the individual verbal/written issuance of banning from the club. A letter from the club officers should also go to the AMA notifying them of the incident and club action taken.

Bottom line is that people should have the opportunity to explain themselves in a given situation and a chance to prove that they have learned from their mistakes. We are here to learn from each other and enjoy a hobby that not only provides a lot of enjoyment, but also fellowship.

RE: Safety Violations
 

I would have to agree with tschuy. That is the most reasonable way of handling violators. Its pretty tough to keep everyone happy at the flying field. And yes especially with the know it all's.
I'm not much of a club guy for the same reason, cause there is always one to screw up your day when you come out to have some fun. If its not the attitude tone, its the evil eye, or its the watch you like a hawk type of guy to come and say something about the most minor thing. I can go on and on!

The better approach would be to set up some violation examples on the board and make everyone notice it. Have them sign a waiver indicating of the rules and how they apply towards safety. I'm sure you guy have done all this already.

Yes, everyone has to have the chance of explaining their infraction. There can be occasions where a missed approach could have gone bad due to either traffic, wind conditions, etc. With good club officers i'm sure a conclusion can be given to the pilot. Of course, good judgement has to apply.

But yes, everyone should be given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. I dont think booting the guy out of the club would achieve anything. All it will do is piss the guy off even more but who cares. I think losing the club dues from him would hurt more than anything else. Unless its a guy that you fellas dont like then what the heck, boot him out (not trying to single anyone out). I think there are better ways than booting someone out the club though.

Regards,

RE: Safety Violations
 

Fortunately most people are good people & once notified they are doing the wrong thing (if they don't realise they are doing the wrong thing) that's the end of it. Otherwise the 4 step approach.

1/ verbal warning from committee member.
2/ written warning at committee meeting.
3/ suspension from using the field.
4/ be careful the gate does not hit you in the back of the head on the way out. - John.

RE: Safety Violations
 

Now that's funny!

RE: Safety Violations
 

Hey Dan, that wasn't Roger was it?

RE: Safety Violations
 

From experience at one of the clubs I belong to, fines don't work if that is all you have in place. The guys with the money will pay, or if they are treated unfairly, they will quit. Others will just quit. Who decides on the fines? I have seen a great disparity in the way fines were handed out. Who decides on the fines? Was the offender one of you buddies, or did you dislike the person to begin with?

AMA has guidelines for this type of problem.
They are in document 535A (Guidelines for Bylaws) ArticleXI Grievance Procedure (flight & safety rules)
These rules seem to be fair, allow for appeals, remove the offender if required, and work.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/535-a.pdf

Doug

RE: Safety Violations
 

Tom,

I should say yes... but it wasn't roger. It very well could have been :D Congrats again on the Mig !!!!! can't wait to see it !!!!


Later dude,

Danno

RE: Safety Violations
 

I do not think that fines would work because they have to be enforceable - here in the UK criminal fines were widely ignored until the courts started getting serious about enforcement.

Also you need to have clear, unambiguous and well publicised rules and procedures - including an element of "procedural fairness" to avoid the situation where someone makes a malicious report of dangerous flying.

However, ultimately, do you really want a persistent offender in your Club?

RE: Safety Violations
 

Thanks, i was looking for info on their site last night when the storm took out my internet, between that and several PMs I've got with what other clubs have set forth, i think we can come up with a system that works for everyone.

appreciate all the input from you guys.

RE: Safety Violations
 

While you’re at it, you need to penalize that guy that flew turbines without his waiver.
You know who you are.
[8D]

RE: Safety Violations
 

Give him the carcass of the plane he crashed. He'll have something to show for his money and he should be forced to cut the tail off of it and mount it high up on the wall in his shop....As a reminder to never do it again...

Kevin

RE: Safety Violations
 

if you happen to check 510-m it shows both club members who fly/own turbines both have had waivers for a significant length of time cupcake, it thrills me to no end that you're still my #1 fan on the forums after all this time though.

RE: Safety Violations
 

Since when did I get knocked down from # 1 KC ??

RE: Safety Violations
 

Why is this in the jet section?????????????????

RE: Safety Violations
 

i wasn't aware you were hanging onto my every post like the knob slobber there Sean, he even sends love notes via PM [:-]


why not? IME the jet guys and gals tend to take safety a little more seriously then others.......with the exception of the slobber.

RE: Safety Violations
 

Coming up with rules, regulations, fines, or structure in a hobbyist type organization is a no-win situation. The most important thing is straight, honest communication about what is expected, when a behavior needs to be corrected, and why. In my clubs we typically have no rules unless it becomes a significant problem, at this point we will publish a 'social contract' that people agree to in good faith, for the benefit of all. This contract will contain some specific rules out of necessity (ie. resolving frequency conflicts) and some more vague rules like to treat all other members respectfully and not engage in ad-hominem attacks or berate newbies for general lack of knowledge of the hobby.

Those who do not wish to play by the rules in good faith are out. It doesn't matter how much experience you have, how much of a 'pro' you are, or how long you've been in the club. Seniority and elitism creates its own problems.

Again, Communication is key, members are always expected to communicate first if someone is breaking the rules. To tell the offender in plain, honest language what he is doing wrong, why it is wrong, and how to properly behave or operate. Everything needs to be done in good faith, and once a behavior is corrected people need to move on rather than hold grudges or feel personal spite. There will be times when even a veteran or pro has to be reminded and it is important to not let ego get in the way just fix it and move on. This has worked for every hobby-type club I'm in, RC or not.

When I was younger I was in clubs that tried to do the reverse. The end result was that more and more of our time was spent with bureaucracy or thinking up new rules, new regulations, etc. to adhere to and less time actually spent playing (ie. flying) in general. Creating rules, exceptions to rules, more rules, definitions, structures, charts, ranks, etc; eventually most of us grew disenchanted and started another club. We learned how to operate in a communication-first, people-first, and good-faith manner, creating rules and protocol only when absolutely necessary. Problem people, ones that could not work toward a common goal in good faith; they were out and would simply not be invited to the next event.

RE: Safety Violations
 

too bad these forums can't work that way

RE: Safety Violations
 

The rules posted on the AMA site seem fair and probably the best way to handle these issues. And I too agree that communication is key and being fair with all people involved. We are here to learn and have fun at the same time....

Cheers,

RE: Safety Violations
 

Why is this in the turbine section?

Very easy - - Too many turbine owners feel that because their system cost X amount of money that they should be bowed down too and allowed to fly however they want to. They could care less about other fliers or their safety.

Go to any jet fly-in. You will see the these owners of the air endanger their fellow fliers and spectators.

CD's are too chicken to step up and ground these idiots.

Other pilots just roll their eyes and say, there but for the grace of God, go I.

RE: Safety Violations
 

You've got to be kidding, right???...If you are serious then who have you PERSONALLY witnessed acting in this manner and when???....From what I've seen, jet guys are some of the most courteous, generous, and the most safetey concious guys around...Most have tons of modeling experience and go out of their way to help everyone from the novice on up...

I have only witnessed a couple of guys with more bucks than ability fly jets and how they received their waiver is beyond me...However, these few are the exception rather than the rule...

Again, please backup your claims with facts, names, and dates...

Kevin

RE: Safety Violations
 

I chalk that up to the two who signed them off could care less about it. there is a video that was posted here in the forum in the last few days of a waiver qualification flight, he was signed off according to the post and on landing the jet ran off the runway.........as a turbine CD I wouldn't have signed him off.