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An unusual wing construction question -

Old 06-26-2007, 01:14 AM
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Default An unusual wing construction question -

This probably doesn't belong here, but this is the closest fit I could find. It does involve a wing, it just doesn't involve a plane or radios. Please humor me because I do need the info on wing construction.

What I'm trying to figure out is how to fabricate a wing like this:



(before you laugh, this is not a ricer thing, but a fully functional wing designed by Chrysler for NASCAR racing)

I used to fly but got knocked out of it by the college years. I used to love building and even designing R/C planes from scratch so naturally I started thinking in terms of those skills when I thought about fabbing this wing.

At first I was thinking of building it with ribs and spars out of metal, but I came across this section while browsing RCU and thought it might be easier to build this thing out of foam and carbon fiber.

I don't have any experience with foam core construction. I've got the basic idea, but lack the hands on experience and I haven't designed for it.

Can those of you who have that experience comment on how practical it would be to build this? Could you build this wing able to generate/withstand a few hundred pounds of downforce at 200+ mph? I don't think it would ever be tested that hard, but it isn't impossible. I've seen these cars with well over a thousand horsepower, and with the rest of the aero package:



it could happen.

In the above pic the wing appears to be one piece, but it is actually 3 pieces. It looks like this guy used one bolt on each side to hold his together -



I think the actual production wings used two bolts on each side. I'm still researching them.

Thanks for your help!
Old 06-26-2007, 02:05 AM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -


ORIGINAL: Jack the R

Can those of you who have that experience comment on how practical it would be to build this? Could you build this wing able to generate/withstand a few hundred pounds of downforce at 200+ mph? I don't think it would ever be tested that hard, but it isn't impossible. I've seen these cars with well over a thousand horsepower, and with the rest of the aero package:
OK imagine a wing doing 305 MPH, whilst being subjected to well over 90G's and it's only a couple of feet off the ground as it goes past. It's not only do-able but is easy to do.

Get a couple of bits of wood and shape them to make the wing. Now get some polystyrene foam and hollow it out so that the wood fits inside. Coat the cavity in the foam with packing tape, Layup your resin and cloth then peel the foam and tape off. Secure to your car and paint.
Old 06-26-2007, 02:17 AM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -

It's been awhile since the Superbird days, but as I recall they were all aluminum, the top bolts were adjustments for wing downforce and as I remember there were braces that went from the top of the quarter panels inside to the trunk floorpan. I picked my friends up it was pretty heavy. You could do one with foam and fiberglass since weight isn't a big issue you could use multiple fiberglass layers once you shape the foam, you would have to figure out how to embed the mount bolts to be strong enough and I would guess a strong aluminum tube embeded in the top wing to reduce the chance of sag being out in the heat all the time. I would try to find a scrap extruded heli rotor blade (nice airfoils) it would be perfect for the wing across the top, it would be mounted upside down for downforce, once they're damaged or hi time they're sold for aluminum scrap, some companies may even have new scrap pieces. Then you would only need to design the side airfoils to match up, good luck, See link below
http://www.vortechinternational.com/
Old 06-26-2007, 03:54 AM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -

IF I ever win big on the lottery I want a Superbird. [Mental drool ]

If you are building a show car and can be sure that it will NEVER EVER BE DRIVEN AT SPEED then timber and foam and glass will do just fine. get the shape - add filler - sand sand sand and paint.

If you plan to run this thing at speed then this is not something to play with. At 200 mph the loads would be considerable.

There are a number of crash videos around showing what happens when a wing fails at speed. Not pretty!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swZLYwBuHvc
Old 06-26-2007, 04:22 AM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -

Aquila223 - 90 g's? Did you mean to put that 0 in there?

captb - The heli blades are a very good suggestion.

j.duncker - Certainly it should be done right so that it isn't a danger. I don't see any reason why it can't be done right. Do you think a heli blade will fail?




Old 06-26-2007, 05:38 AM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -

Yes a glider dynamic soaring will experience 90g's as it passes through the shear layer. Bearing in mind the glider is circling at 305 mph and passes through the shear layer twice per circle.

To keep things relative it takes 9g to make even the most experienced pilots pass out and 14G will crush a human skull.
Old 06-26-2007, 05:58 AM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -

Not that difficult actually. I would suggest a three piece construction. The two uprights could be built like any high stress foam core wing.
Use the pink or blue foam for the cores. Skin the cores with say 1/8" hard balsa with a layer of carbon between the skin and core. Glass the outside in the usual way for wings and finish. The top wing could be built the same way with the curved corners fabricated by hand and added.

There would have to be hard points embedded in the cores for attachment. Although on a larger scale not a lot different from my Pylon Racer wings.

Ed S
Old 06-26-2007, 03:35 PM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -

I'm thinking the heli wing is great for the center section. The wings on real Daytonas and Superbirds are made from extruded aircraft grade aluminum, so there's an element of authenticity to using the heli wing.

For the vertical stabilizers how about machining an aluminum plate into a truss like structure, running some mounting rods up into it, encasing it in foam for the aerodynamic shape and finishing it as Ed Smith suggests?

The major problem I see at this point is aligning the vertical stabilizers to the centerline of the car.
Old 06-26-2007, 07:20 PM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -

The major problem I see at this point is aligning the vertical stabilizers to the centerline of the car.
There are all sorts of laser alignment tools that would handle this task as well as the incidence of the horizontal section.

Ed S
Old 06-27-2007, 03:51 PM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -

Got links?

I've got a Robarts Incidence Meter - I'm sure there are better products available by now (this one is ten years old at least). I would think any tool for the vertical stab would require finding the centerline of the car first. I can't think of any way to do it other than measuring it out by hand. I'm not sure that is accurate enough.
Old 06-27-2007, 05:44 PM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -

Go to a wheel alignment shop and ask them what the baseline is.

Ed S
Old 06-27-2007, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: An unusual wing construction question -

Many years ago back when these cars were new a buddy of mine built one using spruce and fiberglass. It had metal hardware held up well, till the car took out a tree. Both he and the wing survived, his Plymouth however did not survive the crash.

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