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Avro Arrow's Restoration started!

Old 10-30-2008, 05:50 AM
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Props4ever
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Default Avro Arrow's Restoration started!

Couple nights ago i got this beautiful Avro Arrow model, it's beautiful no doubt about it at any cost and when i looked at it initially i knew what was on the table for me to get it back into air worthy shape. For some strange reason 7" section on its rear fuselage was cut off at some point in it's life, now its gone!, so my question is to find best possible way to rebuild this fuselage section and re attach exhaust nozzles and tailcone back on it.

Any ideas guys?

I was thinking to re-glue the exhaust nozzles and tailcone back on the top half of fuselage and rebuild whole missing section by anchoring 1/16" by 1/4" balsa strips between present fuselage and nozzle cone and then strip planking the missing fuselage section followed by glassing it from the outside once whole section is rebuilt by blanking!, what would you do to rebuild this section.
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:58 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

Hello guys!..

I'm sure there are more then one ways to rebuild this missing fuselage section. How about making a foam plug for this missing fuselage section and then glassing over it with 4oz cloth and epoxy resin. Any inputs.....
Old 10-31-2008, 08:10 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

That would probably work pretty well actually.. It doesn't appear to be structural.. If you were worried about it at all you could run a couple small hardwood stringers from the fuse thru the foam and tie it to the cone..
Old 10-31-2008, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

ORIGINAL: diggs_74

That would probably work pretty well actually.. It doesn't appear to be structural.. If you were worried about it at all you could run a couple small hardwood stringers from the fuse thru the foam and tie it to the cone..
Yeah it's not structural repair, more or less fuselage section fabrication. I have started to repair it, so far i have glued cone to the fuselage top where is butt joins it. I have taped it for temporary support and will be using foam approach to make missing section from inside then add resin and cloth from out side. Model is place inverted as it is easy this way to do this fabrication.

I like to know what is the best way to remove the old paint from fiberglass fuselage, can i use oven cleaner to do this or some other aggressive chemical is needed.
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Old 10-31-2008, 10:34 PM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

After initial glue dries up, i fiber glassed the joint with strip of 4oz cloth.
I didn't used epoxy resin on here instead i just mixed up 30min epoxy and applied that to the cloth. After most was dried and few spots were left out, i poured medium CA on there hence few white spots can be seen.
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Old 11-01-2008, 02:45 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

Arrow on it's belly. I am happy that the alignment of the tailcone piece joint is 100% accurate!, let say with this joint i'm 1/4 ways to finishing this fabrication.
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Old 11-01-2008, 07:55 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

Hey fella, you got quiet a few irons in the fire up there my freind. On the paint stripper,
I don't remember the brand name right off hand, but our local Home Depot has an enviro-freindly
paint stripper that works extremely well on fiberglass. It it is water soluable and smells like
citrus fruit, oranges to be exact. Check your local home improvement store or hardware store
or try to find an automotive body shop and ask them what they use on the plastic bumpers and
glass parts of cars. Good luck with this project

Bill D.
Old 11-02-2008, 04:22 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

Hey Bill,

Yeah it's like most of us on here, we all at times have more then one projects on the go. If it wasn't for Arrow i would have restarted on my S Connie, i am taking time off from it because i have been working on it for 2 years now and it's a mega project as my first one in giant scale scratch build category. I needed to take my mind off from it and that is why i bought C310. This Arrow just came in out of the blue but it's well worth it.

I will try to find what chemical i can use to strip the paint off from the fuselage in certain areas as you suggested. I thought sanding was the way but not anymore when chemicals are way to go now days.

I got a bleak hope to get rear fuselage section made from a fellow here in Toronto who has recently resurrected the actual mold for this model and is in process of making 5 fuselages for 5 other exclusive individuals. If all worked out then i don't have make a foam plug to make up for missing section. So for now i started to sand the joint from outside to make it smooth and even with rest of the fuselage. Some of the hanger rash is also being fixed now on the model.
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this fuselage section on Arrow

The stuff you are looking for is called Citrastrip.. Make sure and get the gel not the liquid.
Old 11-03-2008, 11:25 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this fuselage section on Arrow


ORIGINAL: diggs_74

The stuff you are looking for is called Citrastrip.. Make sure and get the gel not the liquid.
Ok Diggs i will look for it now, hopefully today. Thanks!
Old 11-03-2008, 12:53 PM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this fuselage section on Arrow

Check out this thread for more info on it..

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7743015/tm.htm
Old 11-05-2008, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

ORIGINAL: Props4ever

I got a bleak hope to get rear fuselage section made from a fellow here in Toronto who has recently resurrected the actual mold for this model and is in process of making 5 fuselages for 5 other exclusive individuals. If all worked out then i don't have make a foam plug to make up for missing section. So for now i started to sand the joint from outside to make it smooth and even with rest of the fuselage. Some of the hanger rash is also being fixed now on the model.
Ok these pictures are for Mike Emilio of Toronto to see the sections required for my model to be made.

EDIT: Guys Mike has seen these pictures so now i have removed them.
Old 11-05-2008, 08:30 PM
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Mike Emilio
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

ORIGINAL: Props4ever

ORIGINAL: Props4ever

I got a bleak hope to get rear fuselage section made from a fellow here in Toronto who has recently resurrected the actual mold for this model and is in process of making 5 fuselages for 5 other exclusive individuals. If all worked out then i don't have make a foam plug to make up for missing section. So for now i started to sand the joint from outside to make it smooth and even with rest of the fuselage. Some of the hanger rash is also being fixed now on the model.
Ok these pictures are for Mike Emilio of Toronto to see the sections required for my model to be made.

EDIT: Guys Mike has seen these pictures so now i have removed them.
I think I've sent you at least 3 pm's clearly stating that I have not seen whatever pictures you are talking about.
Old 11-05-2008, 09:02 PM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow


ORIGINAL: Mike Emilio

ORIGINAL: Props4ever

ORIGINAL: Props4ever

I got a bleak hope to get rear fuselage section made from a fellow here in Toronto who has recently resurrected the actual mold for this model and is in process of making 5 fuselages for 5 other exclusive individuals. If all worked out then i don't have make a foam plug to make up for missing section. So for now i started to sand the joint from outside to make it smooth and even with rest of the fuselage. Some of the hanger rash is also being fixed now on the model.
Ok these pictures are for Mike Emilio of Toronto to see the sections required for my model to be made.

EDIT: Guys Mike has seen these pictures so now i have removed them.
I think I've sent you at least 3 pm's clearly stating that I have not seen whatever pictures you are talking about.
eHmmm ok error on my part again i guess, sorry Mike i'll repost them through site uploading features so you can see them. For some reason your firewalls are blocking seeing pics posted through different server.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:24 AM
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Mike Emilio
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

What a mess! Really butchered out isn't it!

Yes, those damaged areas can be re-fabricated in the mould.

You would need to re-square the damaged areas then fit in the new parts.

These are all very expensive parts to custom make.
No promises, , , , and I would need to have all this paid up-front, before I start reproducing those parts.

My first priority right now is getting 5 custom fuselages made for others.

Our new version of the Avro Arrow is for turbine with removable wings.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:05 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

Maybe 6" to the right of that huge hole!! I see what looks like a seam. There should be no seem or joint there.

- Was the fuselage broken in half, then bandaged together again? or,
- Was a former made up for this location?
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:51 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow


ORIGINAL: Mike Emilio

Maybe 6" to the right of that huge hole!! I see what looks like a seam. There should be no seem or joint there.

- Was the fuselage broken in half, then bandaged together again? or,
- Was a former made up for this location?
No there is no sign of fuselage broken in half or anything like that Mike, from i figured after talking to Brad is that bandage was done after the first 8" fan failed on his first try to take off and departed the airplane though that area.

As for former being there i would say yes as it's glassed in from both side and fully secured in there. Now if you at right of this former in the picture
you will see scars where there might have been other formers too at some point!. Now keep in mind this was the only prototype that Brad made from same plug that you resurrected and made newer moulds from.

As far as you mentioning about being too expansive, i know what you have charged other guys for the fuselage and the wings, so i can live with just the lower fuselage section made for me. I have mentioned you in a PM that i can buy the cloth and resin also and pay you for your time. We haven't talked about price as yet either. As i am positive we can work it out.
Old 11-06-2008, 11:57 AM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow


ORIGINAL: Mike Emilio

What a mess! Really butchered out isn't it!

Yes, those damaged areas can be re-fabricated in the mould.

You would need to re-square the damaged areas then fit in the new parts.

These are all very expensive parts to custom make.
No promises, , , , and I would need to have all this paid up-front, before I start reproducing those parts.

My first priority right now is getting 5 custom fuselages made for others.

Our new version of the Avro Arrow is for turbine with removable wings.
Well it's project and a good one in bit of rough shape at the moment and i have all the intent to make it better and healthy once again as this model truly deserves.

I know your priorities among other 5 that you are doing currently, all i ask for lower fuselage shell made and i can cut my own parts from it and fabricate into this fuselage. This is by no means a turbine version and i can't afford turbine engine so DF is best in my favor.

Let me know when you can cast lower fuselage half for me and if you need my material or not and we can go from there. If you want up front payment that is not a problem either as i prefer that myself also but price is still to me determined at this point.

Old 11-06-2008, 12:09 PM
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Mike Emilio
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

ORIGINAL: Props4ever
, , , ,
, , , ,

As far as you mentioning about being too expansive, i know what you have charged other guys for the fuselage and the wings, so i can live with just the lower fuselage section made for me. I have mentioned you in a PM that i can buy the cloth and resin also and pay you for your time. We haven't talked about price as yet either. As i am positive we can work it out.
The 5 guys that are buying one will be the only guys that get it at that price. If I recall, you weren't interested or you would have had your name in 2 months ago.

If you want the full lower fuselage half, you're looking at about the $700.00 mark.
These moulds are very expensive and involve hundreds of hours.

I have no need for your materials, and I'm sure you have no idea of how much it costs for even the vacuum bagging supplies to make a part 11 feet long!

Perhaps you should continue with trying to re-construct the areas on your own, or possible find someone who can spray paint it again and just keep it as a display model.
Old 11-06-2008, 12:11 PM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow


ORIGINAL: Mike Emilio

Maybe 6" to the right of that huge hole!! I see what looks like a seam. There should be no seem or joint there.

Mike there is a some of cheater hole that is presently covered with plastic covering as can be seen in pictures below, plus i just noticed 2 air brakes as panel lines molded in and off course the area where LG was placed can be seen with letter "R"!...
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:19 PM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

ORIGINAL: Mike Emilio

ORIGINAL: Props4ever
, , , ,
, , , ,

As far as you mentioning about being too expansive, i know what you have charged other guys for the fuselage and the wings, so i can live with just the lower fuselage section made for me. I have mentioned you in a PM that i can buy the cloth and resin also and pay you for your time. We haven't talked about price as yet either. As i am positive we can work it out.
The 5 guys that are buying one will be the only guys that get it at that price. If I recall, you weren't interested or you would have had your name in 2 months ago.

If you want the full lower fuselage half, you're looking at about the $650.00 mark.

I have no need for your materials, and I'm sure you have no idea of how much it costs for even the vacuum bagging supplies to make a part 11 feet long!

Perhaps you should continue with trying to re-construct the areas on your own, or possible find someone who can spray paint it again and just keep it as a display model.
Hmm i see, well $650 is too high just to cut 2 sections from the lower fuselage, so if you can do the just the parts for me and that would cut down from $650 mark considerably then that's fine with me, or if i can get parts from test lower fuselage piece that would be fine too. Now this model is going to fly as it's designed for will not be turned into display model!...if we can work good but if not then i'll find another way to get it done as you and i know there are always more then one way to solve the problems like these. Think about it and let me know. In mean while i'll look after other areas of it that also need attention. Thanks Mike..
Old 11-06-2008, 12:30 PM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

ORIGINAL: Props4ever


ORIGINAL: Mike Emilio

ORIGINAL: Props4ever
, , , ,
, , , ,

As far as you mentioning about being too expansive, i know what you have charged other guys for the fuselage and the wings, so i can live with just the lower fuselage section made for me. I have mentioned you in a PM that i can buy the cloth and resin also and pay you for your time. We haven't talked about price as yet either. As i am positive we can work it out.
The 5 guys that are buying one will be the only guys that get it at that price. If I recall, you weren't interested or you would have had your name in 2 months ago.

If you want the full lower fuselage half, you're looking at about the $650.00 mark.

I have no need for your materials, and I'm sure you have no idea of how much it costs for even the vacuum bagging supplies to make a part 11 feet long!

Perhaps you should continue with trying to re-construct the areas on your own, or possible find someone who can spray paint it again and just keep it as a display model.
Hmm i see, well $650 is too high just to cut 2 sections from the lower fuselage, so if you can do the just the parts for me and that would cut down from $650 mark considerably then that's fine with me, or if i can get parts from test lower fuselage piece that would be fine too. Now this model is going to fly so no point of you putting it down as display model only!...if we can work good if not then i'll find another way to get it done as you and i know there are always more then one way to solve the problems like these....
I re-edited the price about the $700.00 mark.

Also, I based it on your first statement for the lower fuselage.

Your second statement is different. cut 2 sections from lower fuselage. I can do that as well. I'll guess the price at about the $400.00 mark.

As far as putting it down, I have no clue what your talking about.

As I told you already in a pm, any test pieces will be scrapped and not sold to anyone!

And no, I'm not aware of what ways you might know to get things done, and I base my comment on the very many many questions you post on how to do something.

The parts are expensive, they are huge! they take alot of time to fabricate and alot of materials are required.

If you feel that the $700.00 is too much for the lower half, then please continue with finding a cheaper route.
Old 11-06-2008, 12:42 PM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

ORIGINAL: Mike Emilio

I re-edited the price about the $700.00 mark.

Also, I based it on your first statement for the lower fuselage.

Your second statement is different. cut 2 sections from lower fuselage. I can do that as well. I'll guess the price at about the $400.00 mark.

As far as putting it down, I have no clue what your talking about.

As I told you already in a pm, any test pieces will be scrapped and not sold to anyone!

And no, I'm not aware of what ways you might know to get things done, and I base my comment on the very many many questions you post on how to do something.
I guess it sounds that you are not interested in making these parts for me at reasonable price that i can afford. Still $400 is too high as i am thinking on lines of $100 to $150 paid up front as you have everything to do other fuselages as this is not even quarter of work with material to make these parts from the mold.

I have edited my ^ post in regards of "putting down statement" as that wasn't right of me. Anyhow if you can do these parts for the price i can afford then kool but if not no problem Mike. I will do it myself and will post here how i will be doing it. The sole reason why i asked you to do these as i mentioned in our phone conversation last night that you are working from same plug but newer molds, so the parts would come out exactly as original and be easily fabricated in to present fuselage.


Old 11-06-2008, 02:02 PM
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Mike Emilio
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

ORIGINAL: Props4ever

I guess it sounds that you are not interested in making these parts for me at reasonable price that i can afford. Still $400 is too high as i am thinking on lines of $100 to $150 paid up front as you have everything to do other fuselages as this is not even quarter of work with material to make these parts from the mold.

I have edited my ^ post in regards of "putting down statement" as that wasn't right of me. Anyhow if you can do these parts for the price i can afford then kool but if not no problem Mike. I will do it myself and will post here how i will be doing it. The sole reason why i asked you to do these as i mentioned in our phone conversation last night that you are working from same plug but newer molds, so the parts would come out exactly as original and be easily fabricated in to present fuselage.
Not at all Sam.
I don't mind making the new replacement parts, or even the full lower half.

Keep in mind that this is a typical $30,000 project. There are very few people that have ever built a mould of this size, and they know how many hundreds of hours goes into it. Not to mention a variety of special tools and equipment that's needed. All this costs a big bunch of money.

New replacement parts from any mould will always cost more. Just like buying a new engine part at the local hobby store, as opposed to finding a suitable used part at a swap meet.

As far as affordability goes, that's totally up to you, , , , I don't want to get into your finances.
Old 11-06-2008, 02:52 PM
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Default RE: Best possible route to rebuild this section on Arrow

Sounds fair to me Mike, Thanks for your time on here and last night i am sure we will get intouch again in future on something else, yep no way i can vouch out $400 for these parts....i'll try to do best i can to rebuild these sections.

All the best on this great Canadian project, can't wait to see first one in air with turbine powering her....

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