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Can I use THIS to power up my Cox Stuka?

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Can I use THIS to power up my Cox Stuka?

Old 11-12-2016, 02:18 PM
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mtrain
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Default Can I use THIS to power up my Cox Stuka?

I watched a video, and saw the user put this on the engine to start it.

Looked more convenient than the old way. Its called a "glow plug starter".

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...ne+RC&_sacat=0
Old 11-12-2016, 03:21 PM
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gene6029
 
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If you have the original COX type glow plug in your Stuka, then no, you cant use that type of glo plug battery to start your 049. They do make replacement glo plug heads that are threaded & will accept a standard glow plug, & then you would be able to use the type you are talking about to start your engine. If you google COX International , they sell those type of replacement glo plugs..Gene
Old 11-12-2016, 06:00 PM
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mtrain
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Ok, thanks gene.

Is this all I would need? [plus the extra head gasket rings in case there is too much compression]

http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-glow-p...er-texaco.html

Last edited by mtrain; 11-12-2016 at 06:07 PM.
Old 11-12-2016, 07:18 PM
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Nope. Not that either. This is what you will need. This is just one of many they have for sale. It is the standard natural aluminum color. Add a couple extra dollars and pick a fancy colored one. As well, you will need the head gaskets, as well as a standard glow plug.

http://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-glow-plug-adapter.html
Old 11-12-2016, 07:19 PM
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Also note that many people do say that using these brings your overall RPM down anywhere from 200 - 1000. I have used one before and had noticed a slight drop, but for my flying style, it does not affect me.
Old 11-12-2016, 08:42 PM
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Also should be noted that the original Cox heads are 1.5 volt heads and NiCads spend most of their time at 1.35 so you don't get as good of a glow making starts harder. The best unit I've used is that silly, Black 2 D cell battery holder from COX. It'll give you a whole summer of starts on 2 cells. Get the old Cox, Yellow clip and fill the yellow handle full of silicon so it doesn't wobble. In fact, get several. You can also just scuff the batteries with some 400 grit paper and solder leads just to that, wrap with tape or heat shink and use that till the battery is dead.
Old 11-12-2016, 10:06 PM
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In another thread about glow head chargers, I offered this cheap alternative - an adjustable voltage regulator from ebay that I use with a 12V tractor battery. They are cheap and have been working for me over the summer. I have not tried it with a LIPO but will soon because I would like to reduce my inventory of batteries and chargers to just LIPO. You have to solder input and output leads onto the board. In the pic you can see the precision potentiometer that you use to adjust the voltage. I have my dialed all the way down.

What lead me to this were a few incidents where I had a TD .09 that should have started and just didn't agree with me. Before I was able to get the NV dialed back in to a good setting, I used up the charger I had with me. I don't want to lug a tractor battery around for small planes so I went with this.

Cheers -

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Old 11-13-2016, 07:57 AM
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I've always preferred the good old Cox yellow clip. I use a Glow Bee battery but it's no longer available. Every time I see a cheap 2 D cell flashlight at the dollar store I imagine how it could be modified and used as a battery box that has a built in switch for starting engines. Really like the adjustable potentiometer idea. With my Glow Bee it has an adjustable potentiometer and a meter. The meter lets me know the plug is good. A cheap 2 D cell flashlight rewired with a Cox clip would make for a snazzy glow plug heater. Just some thoughts.
Old 11-13-2016, 02:01 PM
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mtrain
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Guys, I might actually already have a glow plug head.

I bought this engine approx 6 year ago from Cox. Its been so long I can't remember the details, but today I gave it a look and the starting wires/clip that came with the kit don't fit the new head. It will fit the old head.

Here is the new head in the plane with the old head/engine laying on the carpet below.


Here is the old head/engine that came with the plane.
Old 11-13-2016, 03:00 PM
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Lou Crane
 
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Gene and Mtrain,

The factory COX glow heads do better than standard glow plugs In adapter heads. They may be, occasionally, a bit harder to start up, but once you get the hang of that, you're won't need to forfeit performance. The COX glow heads ARE quite expensive, and occasionally DO blow.

There are alternatives: other mfrs offer glow heads, which use an adapter that screws into the COX cylinder. The glow head pieces are clamped to the cylinder under the adapter. Replacement glow heads are available at much more reasonable cost - if one ever does fail you.
These usually give better performance and reliability than the stock glow head.

The voltage thing is a real factor. A freshly charged ni-cd will light the plugs very nicely, but voltage drops with extended use. I think a pack of four D size ni-cd or ni-MH cells would have the ampere-hour capacity to keep a good light longer (Wired connecting all the pluses on one side and all the minuses to the other. Voltage stays the same, but load (ampere hour capacity) adds up.)

Good wiring connections and a good, clean connector clip should reduce problems even more.

Luck, and happy flying!

Last edited by Lou Crane; 11-13-2016 at 03:03 PM.
Old 11-13-2016, 04:03 PM
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Mtrain, You have a std cox glo head there. You should be able to use the cox fork styl glo clip. It may not slide thru the cooling fins, but will still work as long as the center is clipped and the lower forks on the clip are touching the top of the glo head. The best advice I can give you is to use a 12volt battery with a power panel and attach your glo clip to the power panel. You will have zero problems supplying the correct amount of voltage to your glo head, and can fly all summer long without worrying if you battery is charged or not. The power panel will show you the current draw to the glo head and is adjustable. I am usually the brunt of jokes when I show up at the flight line with my power panel rubber banded to the battery, but usually by the end of the day most of the guys are using my setup to start their engines. Heres a picture of my setup at one of the events my grandson was flying in.....Gene
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Old 11-13-2016, 06:56 PM
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mtrain
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Ok, thanks for all of the help guys.

I got a Stuka just like the one I have now just before my parents divorced in 1976.

The Stuka then got flown once, one loop, and into the ground. Never flown again, and lost to time.

Anyway I bought this plane about 6 years ago, and never got around to flying it. I got the fuel in the other day, and want to fly it with my family after Thanksgiving dinner. I will take all of your advice, and decide on something soon.

Thanks again.
Old 11-13-2016, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lou Crane View Post

There are alternatives: other mfrs offer glow heads, which use an adapter that screws into the COX cylinder. The glow head pieces are clamped to the cylinder under the adapter. Replacement glow heads are available at much more reasonable cost - if one ever does fail you.
These usually give better performance and reliability than the stock glow head.
A couple of questions about alternatives to the standard Cox glow heads. Glad you mentioned a couple of options here. If I understand what you are saying correctly, you haven't found the standard glow plug adapters to work as well as the stock Cox glow heads, but those "hot inserts" work well? Are those inserts for Norvel engines, and you buy the Cox adapter?



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Old 11-13-2016, 09:30 PM
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In the short run, getting/using the basic Cox glow clip with 2 D batteries is the way to go - don't let us overcomplicate things!

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Old 11-14-2016, 06:11 PM
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I think that a glow plug clip with 1.5 volts is best application here; the weight of a NiCad equipped glow driver hanging off the end of the engine could pry the poor engine right out of your airplane during startup.

To the OP: without knowledge of your experience, success in flying this airplane depends on familiarity and experience flying control line. If not, practice with something else.

The Cox Stuka is a very good flying model with decent line tension and a terrific glide but it will break if crashed.

To afford the best chances of success, suggest the following:

1) Tape the sliding canopies closed - I used a piece of Scotch tape at the top of the pilot's and gunner's positions - otherwise they'll open and may come off in flight.
2) I believe I used the outer holes on a Cox control handle which makes controls sensitive but desirable on this airplane.
3) Site selection should be a level, smooth surface such as blacktop devoid of obstacles - perform FOD walk around entire circle prior to flight. It allows for smooth acceleration to flying speed and slow application of elevator to lift off. Suspect many think that flying over grass will reduce the chance of breaking an airplane but I believe a hard, level, smooth surface pays dividends over the long run and allows you to land anywhere at any time. A forced take-off from rough surfaces make for poor take-offs and may result in a loop and crash when line tension is at a minimum. *
4) Select a person who knows how to hold and release model properly.
5) Tune engine for optimum power.
6) Perform control check prior to launch (make sure "up" is up and "down" is down).
7) I can't speak for loops as I've never attempted looping this airplane. Only performed straight and level with shallow climbs and dives and occasional wing-overs.
8) Wheel landings are a thing of beauty with this airplane - make sure to fly straight and level prior to engine cut (head height) - prepare to back up a little but it maintains very good line tension after engine cut-off all the way to flare and touch-down on the mains with a nice roll out.

* Before first flight, check for free movement of wheels and give model a good shove on pavement - it should roll in a straight line for ten feet or so. (I oiled the wheel hub pins where they pass through the pant walls.) Hold neutral elevator during take-off roll - tail will rise first - allow airplane to continue accelerating while rolling on mains and ease in up elevator for a realistic take-off.

Hope this helps for a successful flight.

Last edited by H5606; 11-15-2016 at 03:23 PM. Reason: Added thoughts
Old 11-22-2016, 10:40 AM
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mtrain
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Thanks for the advice guys as well as the pre flight check.

Today I tried to start the engine with no luck.

I used two D batteries in an old flashlight housing I configured. I did confirm voltage at the wires I am assuming the pos goes to the tip of the glow plug, and the neg goes to the body under the tip?

Also I turned the prop counter clockwise to start using the spring, as in after winding with the spring, and releasing the prop the prop spun counter cw.



Here is the fuel I'm using, and it is getting to the engine [which is why I took the engine out of the plane to verify this].


So, why isn't it starting? FTR, I'm an auto mechanic, and pretty much a jack of all trades so this should be simple...........right?
Old 11-22-2016, 01:53 PM
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Is it running on the prime? If not, its your battery or plug....Gene
Old 11-22-2016, 02:07 PM
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mtrain
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Sorry gene, but what do you mean by "running on the prime?"

Its not firing at all. Is the two D batteries not enough? I don't have time to order/receive the voltage gizmo for the 12 tractor battery, before Thanksgiving..
Old 11-22-2016, 04:06 PM
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Running on the prime means, when you put several drops of fuel into the two black slits ( engine cylindere) & flip the prop. it should at least make an attempt at starting. Also you should hear it make a sizzle sound. You are primeing it aren't you? I wish you lived a tad closer to me, we'd have that running in no time!
Old 11-22-2016, 04:13 PM
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mtrain
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Ok got it.

i tried to prime it a different way. I pumped the fuel feed tube until I seen the bubbles disappear. in the line.

So the two D batteries are OK, and the polarity correct [the red wire is positive.

Its really humiliating that I can build cars, but not get this simple motor to start........lol.
Old 11-22-2016, 05:06 PM
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You'll get it running. I grew up with flying those engines every weekend. I still have about 20 or so and enough parts to build another 20! They run good when they are used regularly. The castor oil gums everything up when they sit for a while. I'm still not a big fan of the D cell batteries though.....Gene
Old 11-22-2016, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mtrain View Post

In your picture it looks like you have the two flashlight batteries in Series , not Parallel . In Series , they will put 3 volts into your glowhead and instantly burn it out resulting in the no start condition your presently experiencing . If they are in Series , change the connection of the cells to a Parallel configuration , replace the burned out glowhead , and you should be good to go . PS , the wiring of either + or - to either glowhead connection does not matter , the circuit will work just fine since the little piece of Nichrome wire is not a polarity sensitive component like a Diode or Transistor is . It'll still get hot no matter which way you feed it 1 1/2 Volts ....
Old 11-22-2016, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
In your picture it looks like you have the two flashlight batteries in Series , not Parallel . In Series , they will put 3 volts into your glowhead and instantly burn it out resulting in the no start condition your presently experiencing . If they are in Series , change the connection of the cells to a Parallel configuration , replace the burned out glowhead , and you should be good to go . PS , the wiring of either + or - to either glowhead connection does not matter , the circuit will work just fine since the little piece of Nichrome wire is not a polarity sensitive component like a Diode or Transistor is . It'll still get hot no matter which way you feed it 1 1/2 Volts ....
D'oh, you beat me to it. That was the first thing I had noticed. It does surly appear to be 3 volts anyways. To the OP: Connect the two POSITIVE terminals together, and the two NEGATIVE terminals together to get the required 1.5 volts. One battery will do, but two in parallel is much better. You can solder the two batteries together if you do not have a holder for them in parallel.
Old 11-22-2016, 05:56 PM
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Paranoia haunts me sometimes and hope I'm not falling for any cyber-scam here but would like to help...

If this thread is legit - pardon my concern; get the feeling and thinking you may benefit from someone in your area that has familiarity with Cox engines and/or control line - hope I don't come across as a prima donna as there are many more talented than myself - just happen to really like Cox .049s.

New Cox airplanes included an owner's manual that provided the user basic knowledge that I think would be beneficial here.

If you don't have one, there may be better info out there than this, but I found this Cox universal operator's/troubleshooting guide after a brief search that may help explain basics here:http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/...ting_guide.pdf

Not sure how you have the flashlight housing configured, but the two batteries need to be wired in parallel (1.5V) - not series (3V). 3 Volts burns out the glow plug.

What you're doing should work to start the engine if you have 1.5V at the clip with a functioning glow plug.

With the piston at BDC, a functioning glow plug will allow you to see an orange glow reflecting out the slits in the cylinder.

No need to take the glow plug clip apart, as gene6029 said, clip can rest atop glow plug - doesn't have to go between fins.

Including pictures of glow clip attached to engine and battery types I use; NiCad soldered to clip is not the best arrangement and only delivers 1.2V but is portable - also fuel bulb that is handy for fillups and priming of engine at exhaust ports.
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Last edited by H5606; 11-22-2016 at 06:02 PM. Reason: correction
Old 11-22-2016, 06:01 PM
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mtrain
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Got the batteries wrong, got it.

I will give it a try tomorrow unless I did, in fact, burn out the glow plug.

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